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Last post 3 months ago by DrafterX. 96 replies replies.
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Trumps Plan "B": Let Obamacare Fail; Then Blame Dems
delta1 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,422
DrafterX wrote:
I think that money that saved about a million jobs was paid back... Mellow



Partially, for the loans made to large financial institutions and US auto manufacturers. But not the billions of dollars lost by individual citizens whose 401k evaporated. Think we'll ever see that re-paid?

And that's not counting all the people who lost their jobs when the banking industry suffered massive lay-offs when many smaller banks went out of business or downsized and closed thousands of branches. Unemployment, a form of Social Security, helped cushion the fall for many of those poor souls, my daughter included. So no, I don't think the majority of Americans want to terminate the Social Security program...
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
My 401 has nose dived before. . I just left it alone and it always comes back... I have seen people panic and close them out cause they're afraid of losing everything... they normally do... Mellow
Mr. Jones Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 8,480
Where's
My
F.R.E.E.
ROMNEY CHEESE's
and
MY free chik-a-fil sammich ?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 46,354
TMCTLT wrote:
Pathetic was hoisting on the American people in the first place....lots of blame to go around.
They knew before it was launched it would FAIL....but now it's Trumps fault for allowing it to happen

Don't forget what the lunatic broad from the West said.....

WE NEED TO PASS THIS BILL SO WE CAN SEE WHAT'S IN IT

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/11/17/david_gregory_asks_pelosi_about_pass_the_bill_so_you_can_find_out_whats_in_it_comment.html


This IS all on the democrats and the F'n SCOTUS PERIOD



We need to see the bill fail to see what was inside it.
MACS Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 60,282
frankj1 wrote:
it was always intended to be a supplement


Yes. But uncle sugar is a wasteful SOB. I don't want the gov't handling my retirement supplement.

Can we agree that some of us would handle it A LOT better?

My mom raised ugly kids, not stupid ones... I'm planning my own supplement, and the money I pay into SS would help me immensely. I'm either not going to get SS, or get a very reduced amount due to my proper planning.

Pardon me for saying so... but screw that!
MACS Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 60,282
delta1 wrote:

Everybody wants the government to be small

Talk about a transfer of wealth: the average taxpayer's money was used to bail out the richest among us, who refused to use their own assets.


Pardon me, while I paraphrase my respected brother...

Yes. I want a small gov't. Who do you think authorized that bailout? Where did they get the A) money, and B) power to do that?

Yup... us. We need to take that power, and that money back from them.
delta1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,422
DrafterX wrote:
My 401 has nose dived before. . I just left it alone and it always comes back... I have seen people panic and close them out cause they're afraid of losing everything... they normally do... Mellow


Fortunately for those who could "let it ride"...but wouldn't you be better off if your retirement didn't suffer that loss...you'd have all that value plus compounded interest..
frankj1 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 16,144
nice job on #49 Al...most on any side do not consider the importance of balance.

The need for it gave birth to unions, and today people hate unions...be careful what you wish for folks...

balance keeps us running.
tonygraz Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,450
Well, where would we be without the bailout?Where would we be without Social Security? MACS you better put away one hell of a lot of money if you plan to retire without SS.
MACS Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 60,282
tonygraz wrote:
Well, where would we be without the bailout?Where would we be without Social Security? MACS you better put away one hell of a lot of money if you plan to retire without SS.


See there, Tony? You worry about you... and I'll worry about me.

If all goes according to plan... I'm done at 55, and I won't need it. I got a different ponzi scheme - CalPERS. d'oh!
tonygraz Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,450
Good luck ! I retired at 55, or was it 52?
SteveS Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,340
MACS wrote:
I'm done at 55, and I won't need it. I got a different ponzi scheme - CalPERS


Ah, yes ... CalPERS ... Californias ticking time bomb ... the one our irresponsible state government keep kicking down the road so that it will become someone elses problem to solve ... the one governor moonbeam totally disregards in his annual budget "balancing" act ... if you or I were to use his accounting methods and apply for a mortgage loan, we'd be charged with fraud and if convicted, sentenced to prison ...

The time bomb that when it eventually explodes (and it will) is going to utterly destroy California ... you are far too young to think it's not going to affect you when it happens ... best you come up with a plan B ...
gummy jones Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 5,154
Most people around here who "retire" early are actually just on disability. The new American dream.
Abrignac Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 12,929
delta1 wrote:
Fortunately for those who could "let it ride"...but wouldn't you be better off if your retirement didn't suffer that loss...you'd have all that value plus compounded interest..



That's a matter of prospective. There is inherent risk no matter what choice you make. By relying on the "safety" of SS one risks not having enough money to survive. Had I played it safe for the past few decades I wouldn't have been able to retire at 50 last year (disclaimer: looks like I'm going back to work as a flood insurance adjuster next month).

I would argue that the economy would be much better off if social security dollars were invested in the equities market. Doing so would create many, many jobs and the return would be much better than that of treasuries. Which would lead to higher payouts. That's not to say I would dole the $$$ without a very closeful eye and much oversight.
Abrignac Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 12,929
tonygraz wrote:
Well, where would we be without the bailout?Where would we be without Social Security? MACS you better put away one hell of a lot of money if you plan to retire without SS.



You're joking right? My SSN projection is around $1800 a month when I'm 67. If my portfolio continues to earn as it has the last 25+ years I'll take about 3.5x that out of my IRA's and 401k.
tonygraz Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,450
And what will $ 1,800 a month buy in 16 years ?
Mr. Jones Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 8,480
I'll be ECSTATIC TO GET MY $998 a month
@62 ....

By all rights.... I SHOULD BE SIX FEET UNDER
AFTER 6+ ( attempted but failed MURDER HITS
BY INCOMPENTENT FBI-SSG HITTER SQUADS)

$998 Is better than ZERO

And like "Mel said"...

"Tony...every day ABOVE GROUND....
IS A GOOD DAY"
TMCTLT Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 18,723
tonygraz wrote:
And what will $ 1,800 a month buy in 16 years ?



Ummmm....LESS?? Maybe more but likely LESS...a good bit less. This is one inherent problem in this country, wages never have and likely never will keep up with cost of living. Especially if certain groups think it's acceptable to replace the working class ( with Illegal Alien labor ) every couple decades to drive cost of wages BACK DOWN.
MACS Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 60,282
SteveS wrote:
Ah, yes ... CalPERS ... Californias ticking time bomb ... the one our irresponsible state government keep kicking down the road so that it will become someone elses problem to solve ... the one governor moonbeam totally disregards in his annual budget "balancing" act ... if you or I were to use his accounting methods and apply for a mortgage loan, we'd be charged with fraud and if convicted, sentenced to prison ...

The time bomb that when it eventually explodes (and it will) is going to utterly destroy California ... you are far too young to think it's not going to affect you when it happens ... best you come up with a plan B ...



Yessir... that'd be my 457"B".
Mr. Jones Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 8,480
Every report about
"ELEPHANT HEALTH CARE"
Says...
Costs more, less coverage,
Higher deductibles and less tax deductions...

How is that better
Than OBAMA CARE?
victor809 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,174
Every time I see this thread I think to myself... "someone knocked Trump up?"
rfenst Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 27,578
I guess it is time for Plan "B". Let's see how that is going to work...
DrafterX Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
Tough to take away free stuff.... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 27,578
DrafterX wrote:
Tough to take away free stuff.... Mellow


The problem seemed to be that too many R's wanted to take away too much free stuff
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 16,144
rfenst wrote:
The problem seemed to be that too many R's wanted to take away too much free stuff

actually, not enough R's were willing to do that or it would have had enough votes without any D's.
rfenst Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 27,578
frankj1 wrote:
actually, not enough R's were willing to do that or it would have had enough votes without any D's.


Same difference.
frankj1 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 16,144
rfenst wrote:
Same difference.

so...fail then blame Dems.
SteveS Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,340
rfenst wrote:
The problem seemed to be that too many R's wanted to take away too much free stuff

frankj1 wrote:
actually, not enough R's were willing to do that or it would have had enough votes without any D's.


The whole thing was a gigantic fuster cluck from day one ... and "fixing" it just isn't possible ... nor, as we've learned, is completely getting rid of it or just getting rid of SOME of it ... DrafterX is right, it's tough to take away 'free stuff' ...

So, what we're stuck with is waiting to see whether enough productive citizens get sufficiently tired of carrying the non-productive citizens and the non-citizens whose votes will always belong to the party of Santa Claus, but the conservative pols are still afraid to alienate ...

Turns out, Hubert Humphrey was right back in '48 ... the Dems are the party of Santa Claus and there just aren't enough voters out there who'll vote against him ... the Dems, of course, can afford to be generous ... it's YOUR money they're spending ...
tonygraz Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,450
Some day we just might get smart and go with national health care. Same plan for senators, representatives, the president and constituents. Until that, fix what you got and make it better.
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
Let it crash... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 3,647
Burn baby burn)
(Burn baby burn)
(Burn baby burn)
(Burn baby burn)

To my surprise, one hundred stories high
People getting loose y'all, getting down on the roof
Folks are screaming, out of control
It was so entertaining when the boogie started to explode
I heard somebody say

(Burn baby burn) disco inferno
(Burn baby burn) burn that mother down
(Burn baby burn) disco inferno
(Burn baby burn) burn that mother down
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
Obamacare will fail because they couldn't force a national minimum wage increase on us... then force the minimum wagers to buy it.... not a bad plan really.. just not gonna happen. ... [Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
Why not have both parties work together to fix what we have?
DrafterX Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
What needs to be done..?? I have no doubt you know10 times more about it than I do... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
A lot can and should be done. And it doesn't have to be one massive bill. Without going in to it all I'll just throw out the first one on the top of my head. How about one that lets Medicare negotiate drug prices and allows pharmacies to import drugs from other countries like Canada where the seem to be much cheaper?

A bunch of little fixes.

While going for political wins lice aca tanking is fun, it takes time and people will suffer. Do you really want that? At what cost is it worth being right. Both parties should work together to make things better.
victor809 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,174
Hang on a second here TW...

What are you.. a communist? Let Medicare negotiate drug prices? Let pharmacies import drugs from outside the US?


Do you have any idea what sh*t like that will do to my paycheck???
teedubbya Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
Like ACA tanking weird.

In general drafter the admin does have tools to help bammy care survive or they can help it die slowly by impacting things such as participation (been and provider), premium, and over all cost. If the decision by the admin is to pull certain leavers to hobble or kill it (they already have, I've seen it directly) without a replacement (just died at their own hands) then you have folks that are putting a win over the well being of many many individual families and the country.

Make no mistake, the death spiral coined by one CEO and disagreed with by the American academy of actuaries and many other groups is not inevitable or even probable unless the admin helps it happen. I have no doubt the admin can kill it. But it would be really callaced and border on flat out ****.
tailgater Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 19,449
teedubbya wrote:
Why not have both parties work together to fix what we have?


LOL!
Holy crap! I laughed so hard that I snorted out coke through my nose.
And I haven't had any in three days.

That's rich.
Both parties.
Work.
Together.

Thanks for the laugh.
I needed that.

teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
That's just one idea victor. Your lobby can certainly kill it.

I think Obama care always has been a mess and a mistake. In my lifetime ever time a party tried to make wholesale changes to the healthcare market it's been a mistake. That includes bammy care. Incremental changes not only are the ones with potential to get done, they work the best. Make smaller changes, assess and change again. Do that long enough and look up and say wait a minute....where did Obamacare go?

This need to eliminate it immediately always has been petulant and childish. Every bit as bad as the **** way it was passed. We need to get past it and get adult about this. It's not a game and our health care system can still be fixed.
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
I know tail. I agree.

Also for #87 one more tool for bammy care assisted suicide involves funding.

I just don't want to see folks suffer in the name of political win or vengeance. Let's just fix it.
teedubbya Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
Right now the trump admin is the Obama care death panel.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
I wonder if Obama didn't put his name on it if the Republicans would be willing to fix it... sad but it is what it is... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 79,848
He didn't. They did. He just didn't fight it.

If you must be able to declare its defeat that's one thing. I just believe it can go away with the right approach and less vitriol.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
I'd like to think it doesn't effect me but my rates keep going up... I did purchase a plan for my brother once but the rate I was quoted was about a quarter of what it really cost... I dropped it after he got better.... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 894
tailgater wrote:
LOL!
Holy crap! I laughed so hard that I snorted out coke through my nose.





I think you got that bass ackwards..................Think
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 75,596
Laugh
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