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Burner02 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
frankj1 wrote:
Al, here's what you missed...

the truth is that 8 years ago, just a couple of months into his first term, folks here said it wasn't Bush's War any more and O had said he would get us out. He took crap for not doing so immediately and it instantly became known as Obama's War. Bush is no longer President- was the refrain.

At the end of the 8 years, the new Prez says he inherited the world in a mess (welcome to the last century of Presidenting Mr. Trump) and folks here now say Obama should have waded in as deep as Hank's waders would take us...just like Trump is doing.

Guess what? Obama is out. It's Trump's war going forward, and I hope he lets his Generals call the shots whether it's charge or retreat.I'm cutting him slack as he has not been an insider privy to the workings of the world...hence my trust in the Generals over Trump and Bannon or whoever is the brain of the week.


What ever the out come, it will be considerably better than the past eight years. At least we are not telegraphing a time line on our military ops.

The time for red lines seem to be over.
frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
Burner02 wrote:
What ever the out come, it will be considerably better than the past eight years. At least we are not telegraphing a time line on our military ops.

The time for red lines seem to be over.

I hope you are correct.
Burner02 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
We have to get back to the "Walk softly and carry a big stick" doctrine.
frankj1 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
I'm counting on the Generals...
ZRX1200 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 45,458
Well they reportedly got 36 goat fuggers....more importantly Cheeto got a few poll points.

This is 'Murica mofo, we don't read we REACT.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
ZRX1200 wrote:
Well they reportedly got 36 goat fuggers....more importantly Cheeto got a few poll points.

This is 'Murica mofo, we don't read we REACT.

It is scary, we are so unstable at the top.
Burner02 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
Scary is the man at the top turning his back and not doing a thing.
DrafterX Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
I heard Fatty fat fat's missle failed yesterday... I bet a few poor bassards are dead now... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Burner02 wrote:
Al, surely you have not been on vacation the past eight years?



frankj1 wrote:
Al, here's what you missed...

the truth is that 8 years ago, just a couple of months into his first term, folks here said it wasn't Bush's War any more and O had said he would get us out. He took crap for not doing so immediately and it instantly became known as Obama's War. Bush is no longer President- was the refrain.

At the end of the 8 years, the new Prez says he inherited the world in a mess (welcome to the last century of Presidenting Mr. Trump) and folks here now say Obama should have waded in as deep as Hank's waders would take us...just like Trump is doing.

Guess what? Obama is out. It's Trump's war going forward, and I hope he lets his Generals call the shots whether it's charge or retreat.I'm cutting him slack as he has not been an insider privy to the workings of the world...hence my trust in the Generals over Trump and Bannon or whoever is the brain of the week.



That's not Burner's point, frank. He believes that America's military precipitously declined during the past 8 years under a Commander in Chief he did not respect. Even though that President adopted the military/intelligence driven black ops dark war to fight terrorism without American boots on the ground that evolved during the latter stages of the Bush Administration when the American people got war fatigue and didn't believe sacrificing our young men and women in the Middle East was going to solve their problems. (it still won't...ask the generals)

Under Obama, the black ops drone war against terrorism escalated tremendously, under the same two generals, Mc Raven and McChrystal, who developed and coordinated the program under Bush. It launched thousands of strikes all over the region, compared to the few hundreds under Bush. Critics, me included, believe that the number of strikes and the percentage of accidents (estimated at about 10%) that killed innocent civilians and the reliance of less than trustworthy locals for intel on who the "terrorists" were and where they hid, led to the creation of more terrorists than were terminated.

Obama did it without fanfare and the GOP-led Congress was kept informed and tacitly agreed, never openly praising or questioning that strategy. The mood in America continued to be "no more American boots on the ground in the Middle East." The GOP refused to hold a hearing, let alone grant Obama the war authority to strike Syria in 2013, when he requested it.

Military spending increased during Obama's terms, until the GOP-led Congress, determined to cripple the Obama administration, threatened the shut-down of the federal govt and enforced the budget sequestration that led to across-the-board budget cuts in federal spending, including some military budget cuts...GOP inflicted, and not Obama's idea...

Our military was, during the Obama years, and remains the most robust and powerful one ever, despite what Trump says...just add up all the Navy and Coast Guard ships, Air Force aircraft, Army and Marine tanks, missile launchers and armored vehicles, ICBM missiles w nuclear warheads, anti-missile defense systems, guided bombs and missiles including many with nuclear warheads that can be launched from numerous platforms on land, on the ocean, under the ocean surface, and from the air. Our military man-power and training, especially special operations, exceeds any other nation, and is the envy of most. The spec ops strike that took out Bin Laden demonstrated what the American military could accomplish...

We don't need to parade our military might down the streets of our capital...just take a look at all the American military bases all over the world...they are gleaming modern day fortresses that project strength and stability and protects American interests around the globe...do a google search on "strongest military in the world, past ten years"...those numbers didn't decline under Obama...and Trump didn't just pull that MOAB outta his thin air...
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
well, OK then.
Thanks
Burner02 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
delta1 wrote:
That's not Burner's point, frank. He believes that America's military precipitously declined during the past 8 years under a Commander in Chief he did not respect. Even though that President adopted the military/intelligence driven black ops dark war to fight terrorism without American boots on the ground that evolved during the latter stages of the Bush Administration when the American people got war fatigue and didn't believe sacrificing our young men and women in the Middle East was going to solve their problems. (it still won't...ask the generals)

Under Obama, the black ops drone war against terrorism escalated tremendously, under the same two generals, Mc Raven and McChrystal, who developed and coordinated the program under Bush. It launched thousands of strikes all over the region, compared to the few hundreds under Bush. Critics, me included, believe that the number of strikes and the percentage of accidents (estimated at about 10%) that killed innocent civilians and the reliance of less than trustworthy locals for intel on who the "terrorists" were and where they hid, led to the creation of more terrorists than were terminated.

Obama did it without fanfare and the GOP-led Congress was kept informed and tacitly agreed, never openly praising or questioning that strategy. The mood in America continued to be "no more American boots on the ground in the Middle East." The GOP refused to hold a hearing, let alone grant Obama the war authority to strike Syria in 2013, when he requested it.

Military spending increased during Obama's terms, until the GOP-led Congress, determined to cripple the Obama administration, threatened the shut-down of the federal govt and enforced the budget sequestration that led to across-the-board budget cuts in federal spending, including some military budget cuts...GOP inflicted, and not Obama's idea...

Our military was, during the Obama years, and remains the most robust and powerful one ever, despite what Trump says...just add up all the Navy and Coast Guard ships, Air Force aircraft, Army and Marine tanks, missile launchers and armored vehicles, ICBM missiles w nuclear warheads, anti-missile defense systems, guided bombs and missiles including many with nuclear warheads that can be launched from numerous platforms on land, on the ocean, under the ocean surface, and from the air. Our military man-power and training, especially special operations, exceeds any other nation, and is the envy of most. The spec ops strike that took out Bin Laden demonstrated what the American military could accomplish...

We don't need to parade our military might down the streets of our capital...just take a look at all the American military bases all over the world...they are gleaming modern day fortresses that project strength and stability and protects American interests around the globe...do a google search on "strongest military in the world, past ten years"...those numbers didn't decline under Obama...and Trump didn't just pull that MOAB outta his thin air...




Al, I have to throw the BS flag on your response. In the past I have always thought that you could see the middle of the road even though you are on the left and I am obviously on the right but you are in the ditch on this one. You really don’t know what my point is. I don’t have a problem with an intel driven drone campaign that is effective and keeps boots out of theater and saves American lives.

You indicated there were thousands of drone strikes under Obama (your intel sux) when in fact there were under 700 with a death toll of around 2400 – 2500. I don’t have a problem with this as long as it is saving U.S. lives. Just so you know Al, the U.S. has always had a policy of minimizing collateral damage to include the lives of innocent civilians. This policy was in place long before Obama.

Obama and no fan-fair, BS. Obama was one continual “I”. If I did not know better, I would have thought he planned, executed the plan and took out bin Laden himself while at the 19th hole.

Another flag, military spending did not increase under your man Barry. He did everything he could to gut the military. Military spending decreased and total force numbers decreased. Can’t blame that on the right, was Barry’s plan from the start.

The U.S. Military is not the largest military in the world. It is second only to China by approximately 1.5 million troops. Not sure what you mean by robust but you need to check out all of the equipment and training shortages that are affecting all of the branches as far as their combat readiness. Probably something you are not familiar with. Another little note is that the U.S. military would be hard pressed to carry on a two-front war in its present state. Not a new phenomenon but less likely after Obama’s efforts.

Next time you want to know what I am trying to convey, just ask. I will try and clarify, Obama did nothing to solidify the U.S. as a world power. All of his foreign policy’s were failures and to save time I’m not going to list all of the failures but you can list all of the successes.

As I mention to Frank in this thread the U.S. has to get back to the policy of “walk softly but carry a big stick.” Your man had no spine and his political minions were micro managing the military. When one draws a red line then there should be consequences, i.e., JFK and the Cuban missile crisis. Nam taught us the politicians should not be managing the war or selecting targets. But then again what does history teach us.

Next time just ask if you want to know what my point is.
gummy jones Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 4,875
Your response shows you have the patience of a saint

victor809 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 12,067
I'm not reading any of those twos posts... my days of dealing with Pottsian length arguments are long over.... as far as I'm concerned they're both 100% correct. Or both 0% correct... whichever makes me happy at the moment.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 5,084
That's right! call each other liars and be done with it... good debating these days is done mono-syllabic insults...
tonygraz Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,407
You want I should bring them a meal ?
delta1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Dan, I am more than willing to see the middle and don't consider myself an extreme left winger. But I think I got your point accurately: the American military declined severely during Obama's two terms. Here are some of the sources I used to make my argument that the right has been wrong about the severe decline in the US military under Obama.

https://ourworldindata.org/military-spending/

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=united-states-of-america

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

http://taskandpurpose.com/a-look-at-military-spending-under-the-obama-administration/

We must acknowledge that our generals are the most knowledgeable and experienced voices about our use of the military in foreign policy, and they are candid about non-military solutions as well. Most would argue for diplomatic solutions and that the use of combat tactics that would expose our men and women should be a last resort. But can generals ever be able to say: "we don't need any more weapons or man-power?" Most generals will say, and have always said: if we don't fund this latest request, we'll be endangering our national security and weaken our military...
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
control the spending... don't think the $500 hammer doesn't exist... It's the replacement parts that kill us.. if a U-bolt gets bent and it has paint on it it can cost $400 to replace from the OEM. or you could just walk into a hardware store and get one for 3 bucks... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
US military spending over the past ten years is equivalent to the next 7 countries combined, including Russia, China and India. Sure there is a lot of waste...but not enough to diminish our military advantage.

One example of American superiority: US has 19 Aircraft carriers; Russia and China have ONE each.

US has 75 subs, Russia 60, China 68.

All those Chinese soldiers won't be able to fit on one aircraft carrier, and they only have 32 destroyers, compared to the US's 62. The Chinese have 1.230 fighter jets and 1,385 fixed wing attack aircraft, compared to the US's 2,785 fixed wing aircraft and 2,308 fighter jets, so they wouldn't be able to launch a sea and air attack on the US without encountering overwhelming force...

Trump is some kind of miracle worker to bring all these military assets online in less than one hundred days...or was he lying about the strength of our military under Obama? Hint: He said "our aircraft carriers, one that is (now isn't) heading to the South China Sea are awesome and so powerful, and our subs are even more awesome!!!"

The problem with this much military fire-power: the tendency to view it as a solution to many disputes in international relations, especially in areas where we don't have much in common the the locals...
jjanecka Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 2,219
Bottom line is that we need to spend more on military now since Snowden betrayed this country and leaked all our cyber-warfare tactics out to every country. We have to play catch-up now when originally we were 20 uears ahead of schedule.
SteveS Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,270
DrafterX wrote:
control the spending... don't think the $500 hammer doesn't exist... It's the replacement parts that kill us.. if a U-bolt gets bent and it has paint on it it can cost $400 to replace from the OEM. or you could just walk into a hardware store and get one for 3 bucks...


You'd be blown away to learn what the requirements are for vendors ... from trackability of every single part and process to the packaging and method of shipment with inspection verifications at every single step along the way ... it's not that irresponsible vendors jack up the price of U-bolts, it's that the vendor has to jump through so many hoops that his costs are through the roof ... the reality is, vendors are on extremely short mark-ups in order to win the contract ...

It's the process that the government foists off on vendors that is the problem ... some things I understand; parts for the capsules and rockets that took astronauts to the moon, for example ... not only mission-critical, but life-critical ... but shovels for the Army? ... not so much.
Burner02 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
Will not change your mind but I recommend you check out available data on military manning and readiness. And by the way I will not be changing my mind on Obama's failures on foreign policy or lack of spine when confronting the world's bad guys or what he has done to the military.


delta1 wrote:
We must acknowledge that our generals are the most knowledgeable and experienced voices about our use of the military in foreign policy, and they are candid about non-military solutions as well. Most would argue for diplomatic solutions and that the use of combat tactics that would expose our men and women should be a last resort. But can generals ever be able to say: "we don't need any more weapons or man-power?" Most generals will say, and have always said: if we don't fund this latest request, we'll be endangering our national security and weaken our military...




I can not disagree with anything you stated above. But the obvious is that this approach was ignored and not utilized during Obama's eight years. The generals were not the ones broadcasting military timelines, the generals did not pull all of the troops out of Iraq at once, the generals did not allow ISIS to roll into Iraq in convoys and the generals did not draw a red line in Syria. If they had there would have been some urban renewal efforts to get Assad's attention rather than turning their backs.


Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
delta1 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Just one more point Dan. America was tired of war and American soldiers dying in the Middle East. Obama won an overwhelming election on his promise to bring our soldiers home, and he did, reducing the number of soldiers there from 150,000 to about 15,000. Most Americans agreed with that decision...and throughout his two terms, all of his decisions to take military action in that theater were scrutinized by "no more American boots on the ground." Instead he began the era of warfare involving fewer soldiers, more stealth and innovative technology...one that Rumsfeld predicted...we can fight terrorism without all-out hand-to-hand combat, and when that is needed, let's train the locals and let them do the fighting...

I feel that way, too. My son in law was in the Marines during Obama's last term, and I definitely didn't think any conflict in the Middle East was worth his life...
Burner02 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
I get that America was tired of war and the Middle East but Obama did not have to screw up the end game. He is pretty much solely responsible for the current mess that we have in the Middle East.

Glad your SIL is safe but a little closer to home both of my son's were in the sand box and they as well are safe.
tonygraz Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,407
You republicans blame Obama for everything - yet fail to recall that he came to the show late and long after the damage had been done. Obama had nothing to do with the support for the Shah that turned Iran against us and had nothing to do with us giving arms to both sides in the Iran-Iraq war. It was long ago when we provided funding and arms to Israel so they could defend themselves against the Arabs around them. Then there was the Bush wars against Iraq that left them unable to resist Islamic radicals taking over parts of the country and making Iran the elephant in the room. And now we have a nutcase in the white house that will probably start or encourage wars with Iran and North Korea while alienating many of our allies. It's not the black guy that caused those problems.
DrafterX Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
The Candy Man..?? Huh
Burner02 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
tonygraz wrote:
You republicans blame Obama for everything - yet fail to recall that he came to the show late and long after the damage had been done. Obama had nothing to do with the support for the Shah that turned Iran against us and had nothing to do with us giving arms to both sides in the Iran-Iraq war. It was long ago when we provided funding and arms to Israel so they could defend themselves against the Arabs around them. Then there was the Bush wars against Iraq that left them unable to resist Islamic radicals taking over parts of the country and making Iran the elephant in the room. And now we have a nutcase in the white house that will probably start or encourage wars with Iran and North Korea while alienating many of our allies. It's not the black guy that caused those problems.



From my stand point the nut case is in retirement. But please tell the world what Obama did to make the U.S. and the world a safer place.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
I'm sure the 400 million bucks in cash on a pallet made us safer somehow... Think
MACS Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 59,839
We have 10 aircraft carriers, not 19.

Nimitz, Eisenhower, Vinson, Roosevelt, Lincoln, Washington, Stennis, Truman, Reagan, and Bush.

Those are the true, capable of launching jet planes, aircraft carriers. Bear in mind that not all 10 may be available for service due to routine maintenance and retrofits of new equipment/technology.

The other 9 referred to may be our LHA, LHD, LPD class ships that can launch and recover helicopters. NOT to be confused with an ACTUAL Aircraft carrier.
delta1 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Thanks for the clarification MACS. I'm sure they are all BADASS and very powerful, giving us a major advantage in any potential conflict.
delta1 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Burner02 wrote:
I get that America was tired of war and the Middle East but Obama did not have to screw up the end game. He is pretty much solely responsible for the current mess that we have in the Middle East.

Glad your SIL is safe but a little closer to home both of my son's were in the sand box and they as well are safe.



ThumpUp ThumpUp


SteveS Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,270
Burner02 wrote:
... please tell the world what Obama did to make the U.S. and the world a safer place.


He did absolutely NOTHING to make the world safer ... he significantly weakened the US, created a wave of uncertainty among our allies, emboldened adversaries around the world, particularly in the middle east where he paved the way for ISIS (or ISIL), gave tacit approval to Irans nuclear bomb plans, put Israel in a bind ... etc., etc., etc. ...

In retrospect, it's safe to say that most of this was intentional ... he was very deliberate in reducing the status of the US as the "colonial power" his father envisioned the US being ...

Most of us won't live to see it, but I'm very confident in saying that the future will define him as being among the worst presidents this country ever had ... that is to say, if this country manages to survive the damage ...
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
the fake news media will play him up to be God and the next generation will grow up believing it... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 10,213
Just remember the mess that existed in the US after GWB when Obama took office...
Burner02 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
delta1 wrote:
Just remember the mess that existed in the US after GWB when Obama took office...



I will give you that .....but Obama did nothing for the U.S.
tonygraz Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,407
He did all he could while being obstructed by a republican congress. Perhaps you forgot what an economic mess he inherited.
DrafterX Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
And the rewriting of history begins... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
I heard he got Saddam
Burner02 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 8,026
tonygraz wrote:
He did all he could while being obstructed by a republican congress. Perhaps you forgot what an economic mess he inherited.


Can't blame anyone for his failed foreign policy other than Obama himself.
frankj1 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
every President inherits the world left to him by his predecessor, and those factors can not be ignored when foreign policy begins for the newly elected.
Bush and his president Cheney inherited a tough hand globally, not more so than others foe sure.

They had the world's sympathy after 9/11, somehow magically converted that into hatred.

DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
all by himself huh..?? Think
frankj1 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
nope. President Cheney helped a lot.

But Saddam was under control (no-fly zones) for years when he came in. He even ignored his Daddy, he went after (oil) Saddam instead of bin Laden, and a country sealed off under a brutal regime imploded and every hateful terrorist in the area rushed in...all on his watch.

This is not meant to pardon any before nor after, but non partisan history would agree with the above events.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
If only Saddam hadn't kicked out the inspectors and stuff..... And by his own admission let us believe he had chemical weapons to make himself look cool to his followers... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 74,633
It's an old argument now... but it didn't have to happen.. Saddam brought it on himself.... He could have prevented the war by cooperating....
If you draw a red line you gotta follow thru... look at Syria now... Mellow
SteveS Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,270
DrafterX wrote:
If only Saddam hadn't kicked out the inspectors and stuff..... And by his own admission let us believe he had chemical weapons to make himself look cool to his followers...


he did NOT "lead us to believe" ... we KNEW he had them ... because we PROVIDED him with them ... back when he was fighting with Iran ... he USED THEM in subjugating some of his own people ... this was not guesswork or spycraft done badly ... he got them from the United States ... also, we knew he was working to build a nuclear weapon ...

what we DON'T know is where he hid them ... but there is no question that he had them and was shifting them around the country (and possibly in Syria and/or other countries) ... remember, absence of proof is not proof of absence ...
tonygraz Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,407
I remember a pre-war2 inspector who said there were no WMDs and was ridiculed and denegrated as a result. Maybe Saddam used them all, but the repubs will be looking for them forever.
TMCTLT Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 18,600
tonygraz wrote:
You republicans blame Obama for everything - yet fail to recall that he came to the show late and long after the damage had been done. Obama had nothing to do with the support for the Shah that turned Iran against us and had nothing to do with us giving arms to both sides in the Iran-Iraq war. It was long ago when we provided funding and arms to Israel so they could defend themselves against the Arabs around them. Then there was the Bush wars against Iraq that left them unable to resist Islamic radicals taking over parts of the country and making Iran the elephant in the room. And now we have a nutcase in the white house that will probably start or encourage wars with Iran and North Korea while alienating many of our allies. It's not the black guy that caused those problems.




So you still think that anyone who thought Obama SUCKED as POTUS.....was because he was 1/2 Black not because he....just SUCKED???? Got it.....BUT your wrong, he just sucked.
Perhaps if he wasn't so invested in social re-engineering here in the US. with the whole transgender BS and trying to divide us by skin color he could have spent more time on World issues. See even you are able to look past his White heritage and ONLY refer to him as a Black man, that's called Racism Toni
MACS Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 59,839
DrafterX wrote:
If only Saddam hadn't kicked out the inspectors and stuff..... And by his own admission let us believe he had chemical weapons to make himself look cool to his followers... Mellow


He had 'em. They're being used in Syria, where they were moved while the inspectors were rebuffed and stalled.
gummy jones Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 4,875
Quote:
Russian continues to fly their Tu-95 "Bear" long-range nuclear bombers within the U.S. Air Defense Identification Zone -- now spanning a four day stretch, according to Fox News.

The same Russian bombers intentionally flew off the coast of the United States on Monday, which triggered two F-22 fighter jets and an E-3 airborne early warning plane to intercept the aircraft. And last week, Russia performed the same stunt off the coast of Japan to "send a message.”

Last week, President Donald Trump and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson both said that relations with Russia were at an all-time low.
tonygraz Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 8,407
TMCTLT wrote:
So you still think that anyone who thought Obama SUCKED as POTUS.....was because he was 1/2 Black not because he....just SUCKED???? Got it.....BUT your wrong, he just sucked.
Perhaps if he wasn't so invested in social re-engineering here in the US. with the whole transgender BS and trying to divide us by skin color he could have spent more time on World issues. See even you are able to look past his White heritage and ONLY refer to him as a Black man, that's called Racism Toni


No, trolly- you suck !
frankj1 Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 15,602
DrafterX wrote:
It's an old argument now... but it didn't have to happen.. Saddam brought it on himself.... He could have prevented the war by cooperating....
If you draw a red line you gotta follow thru... look at Syria now... Mellow

the reason for hunting him was phonied up. the original hunt was for the 9/11 perp

he got it during Obama's term in office.
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