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rugrunner Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-15-2004
Posts: 10,089
OSU librarian slapped with “sexual harassment” charge for recommending conservative books for freshmen
Ohio State University will press forward with frivolous investigation despite ADF letter
Thursday, April 13, 2006, 11:30 AM (MST)
ADF Media Relations | 480-444-0020



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COLUMBUS, Ohio — Officials at the Ohio State University are investigating an OSU Mansfield librarian for “sexual harassment” after he recommended four conservative books for a freshman reading program. ADF has demanded that OSU cease its frivolous investigation, yet the university is pressing forward, claiming that it takes the charges “seriously.”

“Universities are one of the most hostile places for Christians and conservatives in America,” said ADF Senior Legal Counsel David French, who heads ADF’s Center for Academic Freedom. “It is shameful that OSU would investigate a Christian librarian for simply recommending books that are at odds with the prevailing politics of the university.”

Scott Savage, who serves as a reference librarian for the university, suggested four best-selling conservative books for freshman reading in his role as a member of OSU Mansfield’s First Year Reading Experience Committee. The four books he suggested were The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian, The Professors by David Horowitz, Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis by Bat Ye’or, and It Takes a Family by Senator Rick Santorum. Savage made the recommendations after other committee members had suggested a series of books with a left-wing perspective, by authors such as Jimmy Carter and Maria Shriver.

Savage was put under “investigation” by OSU’s Office of Human Resources after three professors filed a complaint of discrimination and harassment against him, saying that the book suggestions made them feel “unsafe.” The complaint came after the OSU Mansfield faculty voted without dissent to file charges against Savage. The faculty later voted to allow the individual professors to file charges.

On March 28, ADF sent OSU officials a letter informing them of Savage’s constitutional rights. A copy of the letter can be read at www.telladf.org/UserDocs/OSUMansfieldletter.pdf. The university so far has declined to stop the investigation, saying in its response that it takes “any allegation of sexual harassment seriously.”

“The OSU Mansfield faculty is attempting to label a librarian as a ‘sexual harasser’ because they disagree with his book suggestions,” said French. “It is astonishing that an entire faculty would vote to launch a sexual harassment investigation because a librarian offered book suggestions in a committee whose purpose was to solicit such suggestions.”

ADF is a legal alliance defending the right to hear and speak the Truth through strategy, training, funding, and litigation.

Maybe we could pass some more hate crimes laws so the gay profs that filed this could have had that right wing **** jailed too!
andytv Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-23-2002
Posts: 40,991
This does not seem right.......are these people from Mars or something?
elp007 Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 05-16-2005
Posts: 4,657
Maybe we could pass some more hate crimes laws so the gay profs that filed this could have had that right wing **** jailed too!

I'm sure they are trying.
victor808 Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
While personally I find sexual harassment laws to be generally abused, I think they may have a case.

I'm willing to bet somewhere in one of the books recommended by Savage is text which could be defined as hate speech (I'm thinking of santorum's book). Whether it is "personal opinion" or not, by recommending this book he is advocating this sort of speech/writing. This would make those who the speech/writing is directed towards uncomfortable and be considered "unwelcome sexual conduct".

While I don't agree that this was an appropriate action to take, and I think it is an abuse of sexual harassment law, they may have a case....
rugrunner Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-15-2004
Posts: 10,089
Vicky, you are a master of left wing rationalization. Does a prof recommending a book praising gays threaten straights?

Recommending any book should be okay. If they don't like it they don't need to put it on the list.

Should Amazon.com be sued for child molesting for offering NAMBLA’s instruction book?

What if he had recommended the Koran or the Bible?
8trackdisco Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,075
Ohio State is in Columbus, just down the road from the Cincy where they had the sexually perverse Mapplethorpe exhibit a few years ago.

That was "art". Suggesting a book is "sexual harrassment".

Unreal.
Drathaar Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Huh, isn't that a State university? Someone told me these kinds of things only happened at private U's :)
adroomi Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:10 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
This topic has been covered pretty extensively in another thread. Please read:

1. The three professors that filed the "sexual harrassment" charges against the librarian are openly gay men.

2. The book that the librarian suggested as required reading for incoming freshman was Kupelian's "The Marketing of Evil" and is pretty downright "anti" gay. In fact, "hate" comes to mind when you read that book.

3. The "Christian" librarian, Scott Savage, has made reference in the past to "****gots," "queers," and "fudgepackers" ruining our country, and has made jeering comments to the professors on the campus.

The three professors filed a sexual harrassment lawsuit against the librarian, not only in regards to the books, but also in regards to his actions, and like most corporations, businesses, and even the US Military, the school has opened an investigation, since sexual harrassment is a serious issue.

No results have been posted yet.
adroomi Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:14 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
It's funny how these accusations have been filed AGAINST the librarian, but everyone seems to be shifting the story to appear as if they are filing them AGAINST the books.

Sexual harassment charges were filed against an individual who, according to the rules of the school, is acting inappropriately.

Why did this turn into some BS about "books" being questioned?
Drathaar Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
You still here googlemeister? Amazing. Don't you have questions to answer elsewhere in the forums? Like the thread you mentioned above and GOOD NIGHT, AND GOOD LUCK? That's on page two of Misc by the way.

Maybe he should have recommended "The Death of Right & Wrong" by Tammy Bruce. It's written by a lesbian, but she's pretty hard on gays. Ooof, good thing it's afemale author.
Homebrew Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
It is interesting that I only find this article listed at the website posted??? The only other referance to this case was a cut and paste, of the same article, on a number of far right blogs.
Oh Well,
Hey Adroomie, where did you get the other info, about his "Hate Speak. I can't find this story anywhere????
Except this website, which only tells one side of the story.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Drathaar Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
I already asked domi for his link on the other thread. No answer.

But what makes ALL the blogs "far right"?
adroomi Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:56 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Drathaar,
You still don't get it do you? You're still considering this as if these guys are protesting the books aren't you.

They filed the claim against the librarian....NOT THE BOOKS. Are you simply dull or what?
victor808 Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:57 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Drath, you're the best at not answering. There's still unfinished business on another thread.
victor808 Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:57 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
No there isn't Victor!! you'll never take me alive!

Drathaar
victor808 Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Drathaar, we will become one!!!

Victor808
victor808 Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
AAaaaauuuughhh!!!

Drathaar
rugrunner Offline
#18 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-15-2004
Posts: 10,089
Funny how you have all the facts about this but others say there is no info. Maybe you could post the link to where you got your info?

I know you hate to hear this but you saying it's so doesn't mean **** around here.
victor808 Offline
#19 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Amelia,

No, a book "praising" gays does not threaten straights. This has been the fundamental difference between many left and right wing policies, and the only reason I have ever defended "liberal" ideologies. While I don't personally consider myself a liberal, I find that a large portion of the right wing ideology is about how "bad" others are. "gays are sinners", "if you are against the war you love terrorists", "if you are against christianity you are evil". None of this is about just letting everyone get along.

I doubt any of the liberal propaganda (note, I'm not saying there wasn't liberal propaganda) has any sort of hate speech in it. I'm not defending the professors in this case at all, I don't like sexual harassment suits as a rule. I just am willing to bet they have a case because I'm willing to bet that some sort of hate speech has been involved.

I'm just a betting man Amelia
adroomi Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:06 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Well then, I guess you're right and I'm wrong.
Drathaar Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Vic, I already gave all the info I have. As someone has pointed out, there isn't anymore available. That's just one of the reasons people are asking for googlemeisters link.

I'm at work now, gotta get to it.
sepia5 Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 11-30-2005
Posts: 80
Interesting perspective here:

"One professor who was willing to talk on the record was Christpher Phelps, an associate professor of history who has not played any role in the complaint.

He said of Savage’s nomination for the freshman book: “It was a ludicrous book to select and the idea that a chief reference librarian would be proposing a book full of homophobic nonsense was deeply disturbing to the faculty.” Phelps said it was important to remember that there are relatively few out gay faculty members at the university and that they face hostility in the region.

Added Phelps: “If the book he had proposed was a Klan title promoting the inferiority of African-Americans, would anyone be questioning the anger of the faculty?”"

adroomi Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Hey Sepia!

According to the folks above, the ONLY stories out there is the one posted above. This is some NEW information. Where did you find that?

Perhaps THEY are the "googlemeisters" and YOU actually do some of your research in other places besides Google?

Or perhaps you're really me?

:)
Homebrew Offline
#24 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Drathaar Posted,
"But what makes ALL the blogs "far right"? "

All it takes to figure out the bias in a blog, is to look at the topics being covered. How are they being covered. And are alternative views explored??
Nope not on a one of them. As a matter of fact, they are so far to the right, you would have to be blind, or fascist,to believe that they aren't.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
victor808 Offline
#25 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
I, Drathaar, have still not dealt with the issue in which I, Drathaar, have accused myself, Victor808, of being Adroomi. I, Victor808, am still waiting for myself, Drathaar, to state that I have in fact seen all the evidence pointing to the existence of myself, Victor808, and that I, Victor808, am probably more real than myself, Drathaar.

Still waiting.
sepia5 Offline
#26 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-30-2005
Posts: 80
Here's the link where I pulled that quote from:

http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/04/14/mansfield

I'll see if I can't find the complaint itself through LexisNexis or Westlaw. It may not be recorded yet, however.
adroomi Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:38 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Blogs are like Fox News and a few other choice news programs. They are PURELY opinion!

I really get sick of watching news programs these days because instead of simply reporting the events, and letting me base my own opinions, the newscaster feel they need to ADD their own opinion into the story. I get better news off of the first page of Yahoo, then I do from Fox, CNN, and Al-Jazeera any day of the week.

Typical news story as it SHOULD be reported:

Newscaster: Today 10,000 people were reported by an unknown source to be in fact NOT real people, but rather aliases of a funny bearded guy in Japan.

Typical news story as it is ACTUALLY reported these days:

Newscaster: Today 10,000 people were reported by an unknown source to be in fact NOT real people, but rather aliases of a funny bearded guy in Japan...........you know Bill, I saw a guy like that in my neighborhood once holding a sign to protest the war. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy was against the war either....the camera then shifts to Bill, who says.......well, if you don't like it in America, you're welcome to stay in Japan.

Now, what started as a story about 10,000 aliases has now left the viewer with a TOTALLY different story in his head.....one of a commie anti-american in Japan who hates driving in Dubai.

Funny how that is.

I wish the news would just report the news. People like Drathaar, suck up everything these paid actors on Fox and CNN say, and believe it as the truth.
tey Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 04-02-2005
Posts: 1,860
"People like Drathaar, suck up everything these paid actors on Fox and CNN say, and believe it as the truth. "

Did you leave names off that list on purpose? j/k
victor808 Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:45 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Hey,

Stop making fun of me... ;) It's not nice!

Drathaar
sepia5 Offline
#30 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 11-30-2005
Posts: 80
Ahhh, I misunderstood. So no civil lawsuit has been filed? This is purely a University investigative matter at this point?
adroomi Offline
#31 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 7:07 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Sepia,
The only lawsuit is the one that the Christian Conservatives themselves are threatening. This is their comment:

“universities are one of the most hostile places for Christians and conservatives in America.”

The School is simply investigating the charges of sexual harrassment. That is procedure. The lawyers on the far right are threatening a lawsuit...not the gay men, and not the school.

Funny how once you get the whole story, it reads a bit different than it does when you leave out bits and parts as Rugrunner and Drathaar have done.
adroomi Offline
#32 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
and for more:

http://www.telladf.org/UserDocs/OSUMansfieldletter.pdf

Read this really closely. It firstly starts with the THREATENING of a lawsuit against the school if they don't immediately stop the harrassment investigation agains the librarian, since "homosexuality is NOT a Christian trait." and then further (and this is the good part) has copies of ALL of the email traffic between the librarian and the staff.

They repeatedly warn him about his anti-homosexual attitude and remarks and he only gets more and more rude and accusitory to them and homosexuals in general.

This from one of the senior members of the university staff as a warning: "your arguement seems to be misguided and unproductive. It seems that you are launching a private campaign (against gays) that has little to do with our Freshman book discussion."

"on the matter of homophobia, I think you should be rather careful Scott. OSU's policy on discrimination is not simply a matter of academic orthodoxy, but a matter of human rights."

I urge you all to read the email traffic, that I pasted in the link above, then YOU decide if the "left" is closed minded as the thread topic suggests.

Googlemeister my left nut Drathaar......I'm a researcher....get that through your ignorant head.
Homebrew Offline
#33 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Thanks for the Link,
I was hoping to get a more balanced story. Gotta have both sides before I can judge for myself what happened. With Drathaar, always posting onesided sites, to support his "version of reality", it helps to have a counterpiont, to get past the propaganda, and conspiracy theories.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
adroomi Offline
#34 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:11 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Homebrew,
Yes....me too. I generally tend to stay away from blog sites, opinion sites, and either left or right leaning sites that make their money by posting new "stories" every day.

Most of the links I like to research usually have a .pdf or a .edu behind them. I gather the facts, and then try to formulate my own opinion from them. I don't like others giving me my opinion.

Anybody that reads that entire link I posted above and does not walk away thinking.....dang, that librarian was an idiot!" is dull methinks.
victor808 Offline
#35 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:28 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
That was an interesting link. I'm saddened that there were not full excerpts from Savage's emails in it. Here is what it appears to be (to me, Victor808)

1) Savage suggested books which, as I had predicted, contain some very anti-gay messages.

2) Savage then tried to back up the scholarly merit of these books, despite professors in the field suggesting that because of the research (or lack there of) done, as well as peer review that thebooks lacked merit

3) Because of his actions, OSU faculty decided that they don't want to work with him any more and have set up a method of getting rid of him. By claiming sexual harassment.

He was an idiot. He's a librarian, not a professor, and had admitted to not having read a couple of the books himself. The faculty (I don't know how high this went) obviously decided it would be easier to get rid of him by filing sexual harassment than by actually going through standard methods, universities are notoriously difficult to be fired from.

So, both sides are unethical. But he was actually an idiot.
Drathaar Offline
#36 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Wow vic, you sound like doomi. Huh. Remember your post about how you never posted in political threads because of all the name calling and such? Just look at you now! That didn't take you too long. Or did you just forget you were posting as vic?
adroomi Offline
#37 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:33 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Darn, I messed up.

I'd better log out and log back in as Rugrunner. I think Drathaar is on to me (us).
Drathaar Offline
#38 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Dooms, you aren't a researcher, you're a liar. You say you've read Ann Coulter but can't quote from any book, you won't even take a quiz on the book you supposedly read. You say don't quote from one-sided sources but I caught you quoting Al Franken just yesterday! TS clearance? Ha! You won't take that quiz either. You say you only post under one name but you won't give permission to cbid to tell us. You are so full of yourself you don't know which end is up anymore. It's hard to keep track of your lies, isn't it? Loser.
victor808 Offline
#39 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 8:59 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Drath,

You are obviously on the boards right now. I'm still waiting for an apology. I will stop this nonsense once I get one.
victor808 Offline
#40 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Reference post 179 of this thread:
http://www.cigarbid.com/...geDisplay=0000000060762

Which you have conveniently avoided since I gave you proof. As much as I'm sure Adroomi is a fine person, I'm annoyed that I've been mistaken for anyone but myself.
victor808 Offline
#41 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 9:03 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
And if you notice, I have only called the librarian an idiot. I haven't insulted anyone else.
erkwgz Offline
#42 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 10:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
Drathaar still getting his ass handed to him by Homebrew?

Ah say boy...you aint no debater boy.

It really is funny how, after reading all sides of an argument, instead of a blog here or a news story there, that ones perspective and opinion about a story can really change.

Unless you are Drathaar......then you blame it on Clinton or some unknown conspiracy.

Keep up the good work Drathaar.
Drathaar Offline
#43 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Vic, good luck with the apology. You'll be waiting as long as I'll be waiting for doomi's permission for cbid to report on him. Should you be cleared.

Clickable links only from the phone. And I only post on my breaks.
Drathaar Offline
#44 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Re: 42

I will dooms.
erkwgz Offline
#45 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
You poor misguided fool you.
Drathaar Offline
#46 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Riiiiiiggggghhht.

Signs signs everywhere there's signs...

Novice
erkwgz Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
You remind me of a Jethro Tull song boy.

" Thick as a Brick "
Drathaar Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Apr 18 2006, 11:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
Yup, that's what she said.
erkwgz Offline
#49 Posted: Wed, Apr 19 2006, 12:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
Are you sure you and Adroomi aren't the same person?
Drathaar Offline
#50 Posted: Wed, Apr 19 2006, 1:02 AM EST
Joined: 10-03-2005
Posts: 4,933
*yawn*
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