America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 7 years ago by tailgater. 317 replies replies.
7 Pages1234567>
Voter fraud
MACS Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/12/double-voting-even-triple-voting-found-in-us-elections.html

Irrespective of party affiliation... something has to be done to prevent this. I know some will say it isn't widespread enough to worry about, but I disagree. Anyone who does this should be found, and prosecuted. Period. Rep, Dem, Ind, I don't care who they voted for. It undermines our entire system and the foundation of our very existence as a country.

We the people. We each get ONE VOTE.

For those crying foul at requiring a government issued ID to vote... how else do you detect and prevent this?
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
racist.. Not talking
Brewha Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
Wow, An opinion peice on Fox that enrages people.

Wow - just wow.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2012/11/06/voter-fraud-a-massive-anti-democratic-deception/#4da5667dd564

There - another option piece.

You may rest easy now my freind....
MACS Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
Brewha wrote:
Wow, An opinion peice on Fox that enrages people.

Wow - just wow.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2012/11/06/voter-fraud-a-massive-anti-democratic-deception/#4da5667dd564

There - another option piece.

You may rest easy now my freind....


A) Not enraged

B) Perhaps you missed the part where I said "irrespective of party affiliation". Which means I don't care what party they claim. They should be prosecuted, and lose their right to vote forever.

C) In a country where "we the people" are supposed to decide by our vote, why would we not have something in place to prevent voter fraud?

It's a crime. A felony, in fact. We should enforce it. Instead of posting some drivel, how about at least attempting to answer the question?
Brewha Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
MACS wrote:
A) Not enraged

B) Perhaps you missed the part where I said "irrespective of party affiliation". Which means I don't care what party they claim. They should be prosecuted, and lose their right to vote forever.

C) In a country where "we the people" are supposed to decide by our vote, why would we not have something in place to prevent voter fraud?

It's a crime. A felony, in fact. We should enforce it. Instead of posting some drivel, how about at least attempting to answer the question?

Fair enough my freind:

A) My bad. But see it as dramatic license.

B) Did you present any evidence of meaningful crime?

C) We do. Unless you just fee keeping the old an poor from voting is a law we need - many do you know...
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS.. They are prosecuted. Your article posts it out.
Additionally, there's clearly a way to check, as people are being caught (few).
More interestingly your own article quotes the "nation's leading election system monitoring group" stating that cases are extremely rare...

Everyone thinks voting fraud is bad and evil. The question is whether we really feel the number of instances is worth having a negative impact on people's ability to vote easily, or worth the cost of implementing controls.
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I don't get why it's such a big deal to present an ID... If you're not smart enough to find a way to get one then maybe you shouldn't be voting... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
I don't get why it's such a big deal to present an ID... If you're not smart enough to find a way to get one then maybe you shouldn't be voting... Mellow

That's because your not really looking at the issue.

They are making the poor and elderly go to the trouble of keeping a government ID current every voting cycle.

So you tell me, if your name is on the registered voter list - which you have to be to vote - why is your birth cirtificate not good enough? Or an expired driver license if you happen to be 80 years old and don't drive?
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
a birth certificate would still allow someone to vote for you.. I would think any picture ID would be acceptable.. Mellow
Brewha Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
a birth certificate would still allow someone to vote for you.. I would think any picture ID would be acceptable.. Mellow

So you oppose the new laws?
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
not really... Last election I saw an interview with a lady that had voted 3 times.. she was able to vote herself, as her grandmother and an aunt I think... she saw absolutely nothing wrong with what she did... I know it's not common but it happens.. a pic ID would have prevented it... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
DrafterX wrote:
not really... Last election I saw an interview with a lady that had voted 3 times.. she was able to vote herself, as her grandmother and an aunt I think... she saw absolutely nothing wrong with what she did... I know it's not common but it happens.. a pic ID would have prevented it... Mellow

So you don't think a birth cirtificate is good enough?


Honestly - you really think voter fraud is a problem? Gerrymandering not an issue that we need a law about - but voter fraud is?

Not talking
Burner02 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,861
Simple, no valid approved ID no vote.
victor809 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
^typical libtard trying to put in more government regulations.
MACS Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
If we do not require ID... how do we catch the fraud? These people had ID. That's how they were caught. How many more have done it and were NOT caught?

I'm not outraged, or enraged. But I believe the number of people who want to vote, but can't because they have no ID... are about as many as you guys think perpetrate voter fraud. Very few.
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So if voter fraud is few... And people who would be disenfranchised by ID is few... Why would we put a larger mechanism in place and waste taxpayer money?

The big, election changing fraud isn't going to come from a bunch of azzholes voting a couple times. It's going to come from small changes to the voting machines, little adjustments in the counts by a few percentage points, just enough to swing a state one way or another (but waaaayyy higher counts than 149 across the entire nation). People who are worried about fraud should be demanding audits of the voting machines, and examining those. But machines are hard, and complaining about ID is easy.

Hell, ID is going to be obsolete soon enough, the future will be voting through the internet. Why spend time and money on policies which do very little and will be obsolete soon?
Mattie B Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I have no idea how this became a partisan issue. (Well yes I do)

You can't cash a check/govt check without an ID.


In the Sip there are services to pick folks up and drive them to get a valid ID. Multiple ID forms are accepted.

There is no excuse for not having a proper ID!!!
Burner02 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,861
Burner02 wrote:
Simple, no valid approved ID no vote.




This
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Not being able to get an ID is just a lame excuse period.. there's 4 years between elections.. are you going to try to convince me that a person can't get out to get an ID made but will be able to get out to vote..?? Mellow
Brewha Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
victor809 wrote:
^typical libtard trying to put in more government regulations.

+1
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Drafter, it is a pretty lame excuse. But so is illiteracy... Think someone who can't read is any good at voting? They're still allowed to vote though.

It's more government regulations which aren't necessary. Someone who demands an ID to vote is probably the same sort of libtard that requires a registration for a gun.

Brewha Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,147
Mattie B wrote:
I have no idea how this became a partisan issue. (Well yes I do)

You can't cash a check/govt check without an ID.


In the Sip there are services to pick folks up and drive them to get a valid ID. Multiple ID forms are accepted.

There is no excuse for not having a proper ID!!!

Mattie, what does it cost to get a govt ID renewed every 4 years in the Sip?

If you were indigent, and the only reason you had to have the ID was to vote would you pay it?

Would that not be a case of you paying for the right to vote?
Mattie B Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Brewha.

There is absolutely no cost for the individual to attain a valid ID. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nothing.

Not even the price of fuel. It's a free ride.


Nice try at an argument though.

What else ya got?

Abrignac Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Lots of hyperbole. Let's take them one at a time.

Quote:
Everyone thinks voting fraud is bad and evil. The question is whether we really feel the number of instances is worth having a negative impact on people's ability to vote easily, or worth the cost of implementing controls.


True, but controls are implemented on much more mundane things.

Quote:
So you tell me, if your name is on the registered voter list - which you have to be to vote - why is your birth cirtificate not good enough? Or an expired driver license if you happen to be 80 years old and don't drive
?

A birth certificate proves absolutely nothing. Easy to present someone else's birth certificate. Totally useless.

Depends on how long it's been expired. I seriously doubt the picture on a 20 year old DL is going to closely resemble the actual person.

Quote:
Honestly - you really think voter fraud is a problem? Gerrymandering not an issue that we need a law about - but voter fraud is?


I think their are numerous examples of the DOJ filing suit over gerrymandered congressional districts.
Quote:

Mattie, what does it cost to get a govt ID renewed every 4 years in the Sip?

If you were indigent, and the only reason you had to have the ID was to vote would you pay it?

Would that not be a case of you paying for the right to vote?


If it's required to exercise a constitutional right it should be free. Problem solved. Oops, state ID cards are free in LA.




banderl Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Abrignac wrote:
Lots of hyperbole. Let's take them one at a time.



True, but controls are implemented on much more mundane things.











How many of those mundane things are guaranteed by the constitution?
Burner02 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,861
Burner02 wrote:
Simple, no valid approved ID no vote.




This
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
banderl wrote:
How many of those mundane things are guaranteed by the constitution?



Let's see if you're able to shake the hook from the corner of your mouth. The second amandmemt guarantees the right to bear a firearm. Good luck trying to "legally" buy one without an ID.

Thanks for making my point for me.
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Exactly.. Because those libtards required an ID to get a gun. Just like they're requiring an ID to vote.

Damn libtards, someone should shoot them.
Gene363 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,669
Anything that undermines the integrity of the voting process is bad.

Both disenfranchising people and voter fraud undermine the integrity of the vote. Neither one is acceptable as as long as either side is bitching the opposing side feels justified to jump in and accuse the opposite side of heinous acts and child touching. The longer you argue, the stronger positions both sides will take. This applies both here and in the news.



It's a never ending fountain of distraction for the parliment of whores.

You may now resume beating each other over the head. horse
jjanecka Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Luckily we do have the electoral college to kind of buffer for us for presidents but I do find this a little disheartening for congressional and local voting.
Mattie B Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I guess Brewha didn't have anything else.


Victor....what are you doing man? There was a time that I thought this guy may be wrong, but he's pretty sharp. You're better than the post above. I expect more.


teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
IDs cost here.

Meh.... I think the whole thing is a non issue. There are mechanisms in place some just want more on their trek towards zero. Knock yourself out but I don't see voter fraud as an issue worthy of the attention it gets. It's just minuscule. It's like the accountant willing to spend $100,000 to recover $50. I know it's the principal of the thing blah blah blah.

The republicans want to suppress votes. You can pretend it's not true and that makes it fun but they do. They especially want to suppress the votes of students and the poor. Presumably democratic voters..... NOOOOO shock. The dems want to expand their base and make it as easy as possible for those groups to vote.

It's not an issue. Both sides are playing. See it for what it is.
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
ya.. just allow some of the to cheat.. there's only a few of them.... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I find it beyond stupid when the left claim repbublicans want to somehow suppress votes (by requiring ID).

Why would democrat voters be more greatly impacted by an ID?

Unless you're suggesting that only democratic voters are too stupid to find access to an ID?


dstieger Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I am convinced that MOST voter ID laws were written with the sole purpose of 'disenfranchising' a segment of the population -- NOT to prevent voter fraud. I don't have a problem with ID laws that also mandate a free, relatively easy-to-obtain, photo ID. That is going to cost money, however. There's no question that there's people that have difficulty getting the ID required by new laws -- areas where offices are open very infrequently, remotely spaced, or prohibitive fee (even $30 might be a prohibitive fee to a poor person. The 'right' to vote shouldn't come with a $$ price tag.) If it means funding a 'Photo ID-Mobile' to drive around the county, then mandate it. There's also no question that there are a lot of people that don't have original (or certified copies) of birth certificates - or other docs required by newer laws.

Seems simple to me....if you want a voter ID law (which I have my doubts as to necessity), then include language IN THE LAW that makes the required ID's truly free and accessible....and, as for all laws: fund the mandate

DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
ok.... and we'll give them a free phone just for signing up..!! ThumpUp
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
But it still wouldn't fly.... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
I am convinced that MOST voter ID laws were written with the sole purpose of 'disenfranchising' a segment of the population -- NOT to prevent voter fraud. I don't have a problem with ID laws that also mandate a free, relatively easy-to-obtain, photo ID. That is going to cost money, however. There's no question that there's people that have difficulty getting the ID required by new laws -- areas where offices are open very infrequently, remotely spaced, or prohibitive fee (even $30 might be a prohibitive fee to a poor person. The 'right' to vote shouldn't come with a $$ price tag.) If it means funding a 'Photo ID-Mobile' to drive around the county, then mandate it. There's also no question that there are a lot of people that don't have original (or certified copies) of birth certificates - or other docs required by newer laws.

Seems simple to me....if you want a voter ID law (which I have my doubts as to necessity), then include language IN THE LAW that makes the required ID's truly free and accessible....and, as for all laws: fund the mandate



What adult American Citizen doesn't have some form of legal ID already?
And for those who don't, are they even voting?

I'm in favor or requiring a photo ID to help prevent fraud.
There is not a large group of ID-less citizens yearning to vote.
But there IS an issue with voter fraud at nearly every election. The percentage might be low, but we can't believe that "every vote matters" while simultaneously claiming that a low percent of fraud is irrelevant.



dstieger Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I voted 'absentee' for nearly half my adult life....never showed an ID of any sort

Glenn Grothman (R-Wis): “Hillary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever put up and now we have voter ID and I think voter ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well.”

The 24th Amendment, ratified in 1964, abolished the use of the poll tax as a condition for voting in federal elections; ID, if required, should be free
Mattie B Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Forgive my ignorance

Are there states that don't offer a free valid ID?


If so, chalk one up for the Sip. I guess we can do some things well.

And FYI....the guy that made MS IDs free, Sec of State Hoseman, is a REPUBLICAN!!!!
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Mattie yes.

We all view life through our filter. There are many folks that don't drive (think inner city or students) and many don't have ids. Student ids have specifically been excluded even from state institutions.

This whole thing is a solution looking for a problem.
ZRX1200 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
How do they fly, buy booze, get passports, pick up kids from daycare........yeah look I can do that too straw man.
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I was wondering that too Z.... but it comes down to having the capability to vote more than once shall not be infringed.... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
In Milwaukee the Dems bus people to register, and then they bus them to vote. Why can't they bus them to get a state id, and pay for it too?
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
because then they can only vote once... or somebody else won't be able to go vote for them is the more likely scenario.. Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
I love how some (not teedubya) think voter ID is a poll tax yet gun buyers paying for a background check that's ok.....

Politicians have killed more people than US domestic gun owning citizens ever will.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Didn't even think about the incarcerated or felons... I bet they're still on the voters lists... pretty much anyone could vote in their place... Think
Covfireman Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
I just move to Nevada my drivers license cost me about $110 by the time I obtained everything I needed a certified copy of my birth certificate $25 to the state of Virginia , the rest in fees and required taxes here and $25 was in fees for endorsements . To make it fair I'll eliminate the the endorsement fees , a person with no probably wouldn't need any , so say $85 initially and I think just $24 and 19 for seniors . Just an ID would have been @$22 and half for seniors renewal is about half plus the cost of original documents if you don't have them . *

The voter I'd adversely effects minorities, seniors and the poor . The majority of the disenfranchised are from the rural South the same states the we're under supervision of the DOJ for similar laws . The laws just expired recently and there was another supreme court ruling that struck down other restraints on against voter registration suppression. Most of the disenfranchised would have been historically democratic voters . I doubt the Democrats really care about these people other than getting their votes . .





* I may be a bit off on my costs I'm just going from memory at my age that may be faulty
Covfireman Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
AZ has a drivers lisence that's good for life you pay for it once . The funny thing is it's not a "real Id" meaning it doesn't fit the federal government standard for possitive I'd that one that AZ has does cost $20 every 4 or 5 year . *


* I may be a bit off on my costs I'm just going from memory at my age that may be faulty
tailgater Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Covfireman wrote:
I just move to Nevada my drivers license cost me about $110 by the time I obtained everything I needed a certified copy of my birth certificate $25 to the state of Virginia , the rest in fees and required taxes here and $25 was in fees for endorsements . To make it fair I'll eliminate the the endorsement fees , a person with no probably wouldn't need any , so say $85 initially and I think just $24 and 19 for seniors . Just an ID would have been @$22 and half for seniors renewal is about half plus the cost of original documents if you don't have them .

The voter I'd adversely effects minorities, seniors and the poor . The majority of the disenfranchised are from the rural South the same states the we're under supervision of the DOJ for similar laws . The laws just expired recently and there was another supreme court ruling that struck down other restraints on against voter registration suppression. Most of the disenfranchised would have been historically democratic voters . I doubt the Democrats really care about these people other than getting their votes . .


So there's a whole population of "democrat" voters in the predominantly RED states of the rural south, who have no formal ID and would therefore be subjected to the cost outlay you've described above.
Is that what you believe?
Or want us to believe?

OK.
Let's pretend you're correct.

Why are there so many minorities, seniors and poor people without ID's of ANY form? And how do they cash their checks or collect benefits?

Tell them they can't play KENO or Lotto until they have an ID and this wouldn't be a problem at all.

Users browsing this topic
Guest
7 Pages1234567>