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Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 130 replies replies.
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Tulsa killing
Speyside Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I want the investigation to be complete, but this sure looks bad.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I heard he was an Islamic Terrorist... Mellow



just kiddin.. we'll find out more soon I guess.... But from what I gathered he wasn't doing what he was asked to.. the whole walking back to his vehicle thing was against orders... reaching in your truck with guns drawn on you while being told not to is pushing it I believe.. Mellow


http://video.foxnews.com/v/5133345694001/police-helicopter-video-shows-shooting-death-of-unarmed-man/?#sp=show-clips
Speyside Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Drafter you're right, but did he do anything to warrant lethal force? To me it appears he didn't. I hope the investigation vindicate the officer.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Workplace incident.
DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I guess the cops should have waited and confirmed he was in fact reaching for a gun and pointing it at them before they shot... I dunno...


It just seems like common sense to me.. there would have been plenty of time to complain about being treated unfairly, if that was the case, to a judge or an attorney the next morning.. just sit down or lay down or what ever they ask.. especially if there's a gun pointed at you...


I think they said the Lady cop got to the scene first and called for back-up.. I'm guessing he had none or very little respect for the Lady cop and things prolly got weird...

It's a bad deal all around.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think we should jump to conclusions
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Well you can hear her screaming "SHOTS FIRED!!"...now...ifn'he didn't have a gun...how'd he shoot?
rfenst Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
listen to the recording from the helicopter. From what I have seen so far, the cop was in the wrong.
Luke753 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-28-2016
Posts: 857
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Well you can hear her screaming "SHOTS FIRED!!"...now...ifn'he didn't have a gun...how'd he shoot?


Shots fired is a general statement that a gun was fired for the dispatch, marking a time stamp and for informing other officers in route. That "SHOTS FIRED!!" was for her firing.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
They had helicopters too???

Christ all mighty...I think they forgot to call in the National Guard or bring in a tactical nuke!

Luke753 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 08-28-2016
Posts: 857
rfenst wrote:
listen to the recording from the helicopter. From what I have seen so far, the cop was in the wrong.


So by not complying with the officers commands and walking back to the vehicle then reaching in through the window, that doesn't make this guy a threat? Really! If you have nothing to hide, comply.
Luke753 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-28-2016
Posts: 857
DrMaddVibe wrote:
They had helicopters too???

Christ all mighty...I think they forgot to call in the National Guard or bring in a tactical nuke!




It was a media helicopter.
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Luke753 wrote:
So by not complying with the officers commands and walking back to the vehicle then reaching in through the window, that doesn't make this guy a threat? Really! If you have nothing to hide, comply.


I have not seen that in any video (which doesn't mean it didn't happen).
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
“We gotta tackle the systemic racism, this horrible shooting again, how many times do we have to see this in our country?” she said in an appearance on the Steve Harvey show. Clinton was specifically referring to the police shooting of Terence Crutcher in Tulsa, Oklahoma, saying he had his “hands in the air” when he was killed.

“This is unbearable and it needs to be intolerable,” she said.

Clinton told Harvey that if the African-American community came out and voted for her, she would work to stop racial shootings by police officers.

“Maybe I can by speaking directly to white people say, ‘Look this is not who we are,’” she said. “We’ve got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias.

“We can do better,” she said. “We have got to reign in what is absolutely inexplicable.”






Thanks Hillary..!! That's really uniting the country when it needs it most.. Mad
8trackdisco Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,000
Basic suicide by cop 101.

The right thing to do was to follow a progression...

-see if he was really reaching for a gun.
-watch to see if he picked the gun up.
-wait until he points the gun at the officer.
-wait till he pulls the trigge-wait until the first officer falls (wait to see if the shot is fatal, and assess the race of the officer shot.)
-follow the same protocol if a second officer goes down
- the next officer should ask why he is angry, if he is lashing out due to expensive Affordable Healthcare plans, was raised by a single parent, or is disenfranchised.
-wait till the third office is killed.
- blame No Child Left Behind.
-wait for the fourth officer to go down.
-bring in an officer of the same hue of the shooter (or darker)
-ask him to (pretty please, with sugar on top) to drop the gun.
-pay the gun man's family a multi million dollar settlement because pretty please with sugar on top is offensive because the shooter had diabetes, and he was actually killed by sugar WHITE sugar.
-provide free excellerant so people can burn down their own neighborhoods and businesses.
-give the neighborhood a multi million dollar grant to rebuild.

It's the American way.
shaun341 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-02-2012
Posts: 8,826
Way to go media, keep putting these officers lives in danger by trying to portray another racist cop killing. I blame the media for dividing this country on this as it is obvious they have an agenda here.

Not saying it has never happened but I would clearly say that from just about every one of these videos I have seen there is 1 common factor and that is the person not doing what the cop is telling them repeatedly. Then compounding it with suspicious actions. Are there racist cops? Probably. Are they killing people because of their race? Not at all it is happening because they have no choice. The media needs to quit making it a race war because cops are getting killed over this and put in danger unnecessarily over it every day and as if they are not already without this on top of it.
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Hillary's gonna tell the white peoples to stop... it'll be ok soon... if she gets elected that is... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I think we should jump to conclusions


Whoa, whoa!
Slow down there, cowboy.

gummy jones Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
selling division is sexy
gotta prime the people
get them begging for daddy government to control their lives even more
Covfireman Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
Not doing what the cop is telling them to do . Kill them . If the cop says hey you Jews wear stars . Do it .if the cop says everyone give us your guns do it . To many people are blindly supporting the police . I don't see it as a race thing but as an economic one but I'm light skinned so I don't know anything about racism .





Carib1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2015
Posts: 140
DrafterX wrote:
I guess the cops should have waited and confirmed he was in fact reaching for a gun and pointing it at them before they shot... I dunno...


It just seems like common sense to me.. there would have been plenty of time to complain about being treated unfairly, if that was the case, to a judge or an attorney the next morning.. just sit down or lay down or what ever they ask.. especially if there's a gun pointed at you...


I think they said the Lady cop got to the scene first and called for back-up.. I'm guessing he had none or very little respect for the Lady cop and things prolly got weird...

It's a bad deal all around.... Mellow


It IS a bad deal all around. You guys have no idea ,unless you are in law enforcement, the "lack of respect" these
people show officers. I see it daily and it really is sickening. Perps of all ages have no respect for ANY authority,
police or not.

Damn racist cops.....
DrMaddVibe Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
DrafterX wrote:
Hillary's gonna tell the white peoples to stop... it'll be ok soon... if she gets elected that is... Mellow



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U-Bfdor6zk


LOLZ!!!!


The US government is the BIGGEST DRUG CARTEL!!!!
Speyside Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Interesting statement in that she distances herself from white people.
TMCTLT Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Covfireman wrote:
Not doing what the cop is telling them to do . Kill them . If the cop says hey you Jews wear stars . Do it .if the cop says everyone give us your guns do it . To many people are blindly supporting the police . I don't see it as a race thing but as an economic one but I'm light skinned so I don't know anything about racism .








d'oh!


You are " the good little democrat aren't you? I'm not aware of cops making Jewish folks wear stars....are YOU?

Have you had one demand your guns?

Too many people blindly supporting people who CAN'T or WON'T follow orders for a PEACEFUL resolution to the spot they're in.

So this guy got shot because he was poor?

No....NO you don't know anything about racism but that doesn't stop you from making foolish statements does it?
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Of course that depends on her audience.. Mellow
Speyside Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Terrible statement cove. During the Holocaust Jewish people were made to wear yellow stars.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Sharpton is on his way to Tulsa... he'll straighten everything out... tho the family already seems pleased with the cooperation the city has shown them so far... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Speyside wrote:
Terrible statement cove. During the Holocaust Jewish people were made to wear yellow stars.



I think that was the point. A position of authority told them to and you must obey authorities.

There are plenty of interesting reads about the reaction to the requests even at the point of separating adults from children. Some obeyed authorities assuming that's what you should do and everything would be alright (the way we are conditioned) others did not.

I'm not sure what happened in tulsa and not ready to jump on either side like most are. I do get the point however.

signed fencepost
Speyside Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Then I don't agree with how the point was made. It was a classless statment.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
teedubbya - just pick a side... once the facts come out, if we find out we're wrong, we'll just sneak over to the other side while no one is looking... I do it all the time...
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
The thing in Tulsa is pretty clear depending on where you're standing... He had no respect for the female officer and refused to comply and got shot... or she was trigger happy and shot him because he didn't comply... either way, he shoulda just complied... Mellow



it is interesting how the media is making him out to be a boy scout tho.. they reported he was a student at TCC but the school said the evening class he enrolled in was canceled so he never actually attended.. He was making an effort tho I guess.. Mellow
dstieger Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I'm ok with the Cove comments as written. Point made and not 'classless' to me.

I'm just down the fence from TW on the next post. I've always believed that cop authority is to be respected. And even if not truly respected or undeserved, the only smart move is to pretend.
But, its also clear to me that a lot of cops are screwing up lately....in some pretty surprising and glaring ways...while knowing full well that the eyes of the world are watching every move. I've been in those shoes and personally know very well how even the most 'routine' traffic stop can put even the best officers in anxious, if not scary and precarious positions. And I get that cops have been targeted and that makes things even worse...but there's too many people killed who do not present an immediate lethal threat. Hindsight/armchairing is unfair, but jeez....I get that people are upset
opelmanta1900 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
dstieger wrote:
I'm ok with the Cove comments as written. Point made and not 'classless' to me.

I'm just down the fence from TW on the next post. I've always believed that cop authority is to be respected. And even if not truly respected or undeserved, the only smart move is to pretend.
But, its also clear to me that a lot of cops are screwing up lately....in some pretty surprising and glaring ways...while knowing full well that the eyes of the world are watching every move. I've been in those shoes and personally know very well how even the most 'routine' traffic stop can put even the best officers in anxious, if not scary and precarious positions. And I get that cops have been targeted and that makes things even worse...but there's too many people killed who do not present an immediate lethal threat. Hindsight/armchairing is unfair, but jeez....I get that people are upset

pretty much sums up exactly what I was thinking... but I'm prone to hemorrhoids so I'm just leaning against the post... you guys look super uncomfortable up there...
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I think if I felt I was being harassed I'd make it clear verbally they were being **** but you can bet my hands will be where they can see them... And I'm sure as hell not going to make any sudden moves or walk away.. there's gonna be time to sort all the bad stuff out later... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
The thing in Tulsa is pretty clear depending on where you're standing... He had no respect for the female officer and refused to comply and got shot... or she was trigger happy and shot him because he didn't comply... either way, he shoulda just complied... Mellow



it is interesting how the media is making him out to be a boy scout tho.. they reported he was a student at TCC but the school said the evening class he enrolled in was canceled so he never actually attended.. He was making an effort tho I guess.. Mellow


I found it more interesting that the cop in the helicopter was so quickly able to observe that Terence Crutcher was obviously a "bad dude"...

What bothers you more? The media making him out to be a good guy, or the people who were about to kill him making him out to be a "bad dude"...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
I think if I felt I was being harassed I'd make it clear verbally they were being **** but you can bet my hands will be where they can see them... And I'm sure as hell not going to make any sudden moves or walk away.. there's gonna be time to sort all the bad stuff out later... Mellow

was there time for Sandra Bland?
victor809 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm surprised (no I'm not) at how many people here are damn sure people should always do exactly what authority tells you. And that the appropriate escalation for not doing what an authority figure tells you is getting shot.


DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Nobody said it was appropriate to get shot... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:
I'm surprised (no I'm not) at how many people here are damn sure people should always do exactly what authority tells you. And that the appropriate escalation for not doing what an authority figure tells you is getting shot.




If that is becoming clear....then, I guess those getting shot should be expecting it....not surprised, anyway
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Drafter... Your entire set of comments in this thread boil down to "its appropriate to shoot a suspect who isn't doing what they're told"....

I'm sorry you think that way... But you probably should move to Russia or North Korea or some other country more in line with your values.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Maybe you're reading it that way because the thead is about some dude getting shot for not doing what he's told... perhaps if the thread was about someone being slapped around you'd see it that way instead... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey it's cool drafter. A guy got shot... Your stance is that he must not have done what the cops said, and he musta mouthed off to them or something... And that justifies it in your mind. .. I'm fine with that... Just want to make sure we're clear on what appropriate responses are to that's stuff.

Am I allowed to shoot people for not doing what I tell them too? Or is it just the cops that you think it's OK for?
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I am seeing an ends justifies the means mentality quite a bit lately. if you believe something is right or wrong it's not that important how you get there as long as you land in the right place.

This mentality seems to be creeping in to many political subjects lately (not speaking specifically of cbid) and in my mind it is exactly what our founding fathers designed the system to prevent. It can be uncomfortable, clumsy at times, very inconvenient, and sometimes lead to a result that is distasteful or unsatisfying but it is necessary. I too often now am seeing the since due process won't meet our immediate needs based on the whim of the day we need to do something different. This is dangerous and our system was designed specifically to protect us from this. No one side is innocent of this shift.
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I was just speculating but it is a common denominator in many shootings... I never said I was fine with it either... just stating how I would and have acted with a gun in my face... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:
Hey it's cool drafter. A guy got shot... Your stance is that he must not have done what the cops said, and he musta mouthed off to them or something... And that justifies it in your mind. .. I'm fine with that... Just want to make sure we're clear on what appropriate responses are to that's stuff.

Am I allowed to shoot people for not doing what I tell them too? Or is it just the cops that you think it's OK for?



In a nutshell thats why I am bothered more by a cop killing a citizen in questionable circumstances than the strawman "what about black on black violence" diversion. First of all its not mutually exclusive and both are issues worthy of problem solving. But secondly the issue of authority comes in to play. I expect more of people in authority and the standards for which their actions should be judged should be higher as a result.

so no victor you can not shoot someone for not doing what you are telling them too because you have no authority. But if you did have authority with it comes responsibility so make sure you plant evidence and stuff.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
Hey it's cool drafter. A guy got shot... Your stance is that he must not have done what the cops said, and he musta mouthed off to them or something... And that justifies it in your mind. .. I'm fine with that... Just want to make sure we're clear on what appropriate responses are to that's stuff.

Am I allowed to shoot people for not doing what I tell them too? Or is it just the cops that you think it's OK for?

I think that right there is where you did a little conclusion-jumping-to...
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Post 5... "I guess the cops should have waited until a gun was poinyed at them" (paraphrased)... Sounds like a justification to me. (ps, drafter, you may want to ixnay on the sarcasm-ay before heading to North Korea. I hear that's illegal there now)
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
you interpret stuff funny... just sayin... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
your arms must be pretty long cuz you're definitely reaching... and he actually immediately followed that statement with "I dunno..."
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