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Last post 7 years ago by Pudding Mittens. 19 replies replies.
Long-aged cigars losing flavor: is lower-humidity to blame?
Pudding Mittens Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
I keep hearing people on cigar forums saying how they have cigars that have aged so long that they've lost flavor, quality, call it whatever you like. There is talk of a "peak" amount of age whereupon you'd better smoke them fast or they'll start "losing".

I've been aging cigars a long time now, and have large numbers of a wide variety of cigars up to and including 11 years old, and never once have I definitively identified any "losing" of flavor or quality due to age.

What I've found is diminishing returns: big improvements up-front, then slower improvements that trend toward zero additional improvement as time goes on. However, I've never smoked a very long-aged stick and thought "this is lower quality than it used to be".

What's interesting is, I've always kept my stuff at 68-70% or so. I've noticed the folks complaining about cigars "peaking" and then losing quality tend to be the same folks who advocate storage at various points in the 58-65% range.

I've also heard folks discuss concerns about some of those lower humidity levels causing the cigars' oils to be lost over time.

So putting 2 and 2 together, I do wonder if the lower humidity levels may be CAUSING the degradation in flavor/quality, over long spans of time, via loss of oils.

Thoughts? Don't flame me, low humidity devotees, I'm just relating my experience and theorizing out loud here. :)
Carib1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2015
Posts: 140
It really depends on the cigar. I keep my humi's between 65 to 68%. Some of my older cigars have aged wonderfully
and some not so much. And I'm talking I've had some cigars for twenty years.

robertsccr5 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-13-2012
Posts: 2,314
Sounds like more reason to stop collecting and start smoking.
Pudding Mittens Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
robertsccr5 wrote:
Sounds like more reason to stop collecting and start smoking.

I'd love to do that, but this FDA nonsense has me stocking up massively now, because I just know that 2+ years from now, when the FDA has ignored 5,000 applications and only approved a few of them (as they've done with cigarette applications for years now!), and they or Congress have cranked up taxes/fees tremendously, your buying choices will be either:

1. Pre-2007 cigars at ludicrous prices, or...

2. Maybe 1-3 blends of post-2007 cigars, also at ludicrous prices.

So, "collecting" a whole lot right now, while variety is huge and prices are very low, is unfortunately a great idea. Thanks, government!

Years from now, we'll look back on today and think, "Man, those were the GOLDEN DAYS! There were hundreds of blends and they were all DIRT CHEAP! I really, really wish I'd bought a schittload more back then!"

So, you may want to make the most of these golden days, while they last, and do some long-term aging. They won't be any chance to go back, later.
KingoftheCove Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,603
Pudding Mittens wrote:
I'd love to do that, but this FDA nonsense has me stocking up massively now, because I just know that 2+ years from now, when the FDA has ignored 5,000 applications and only approved a few of them (as they've done with cigarette applications for years now!), and they or Congress have cranked up taxes/fees tremendously, your buying choices will be either:

1. Pre-2007 cigars at ludicrous prices, or...

2. Maybe 1-3 blends of post-2007 cigars, also at ludicrous prices.

So, "collecting" a whole lot right now, while variety is huge and prices are very low, is unfortunately a great idea. Thanks, government!

Years from now, we'll look back on today and think, "Man, those were the GOLDEN DAYS! There were hundreds of blends and they were all DIRT CHEAP! I really, really wish I'd bought a schittload more back then!"

So, you may want to make the most of these golden days, while they last, and do some long-term aging. They won't be any chance to go back, later.

You may be right.................you may be wrong.
One thing I'm quite sure of however, is that IF things turn to shyte with respect to pricing/availability as you suggest (and they just might when all is said and done)............a thriving "grey market" will emerge rather quickly.

Much like it's quite easy to get CCs now through various channels, it will be even easier to get NCs through similar channels. My guess that there will be a plethora of online retailers simply doing business outside of the US, selling NCs, and the competition among them will keep prices in check.
But I will be there in 12-15 months when the big sell-offs start in anticipation of enforcement of the regulations.
I might grab a few hundred extras cigars if any of my favs turn up at good prices.
Buckwheat Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
I've had and smoked pre-embargo CC's. They were about 45 - 50 years old when I smoked them and they were very tasty and not flat. I've always kept my CC's around 60% RH and between 60-70 F. A lot of CC's are just coming into their own at around 5 to 10 years old. I smoked a ton of fresh (i.e. <1-2 years old) and they were good in a different way from ones that were say 5-10 YO or older.

Can't say that I've really ever had an "aged" NC so others will have to chime in on those. YMMV fog
Pudding Mittens Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291

Very good points, KingoftheCove.

Thanks for the experience and info, Buckwheat!

Abrignac Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Think garbage in, garbage out. On the other hand, quality smokes will be fine. Since, cigars tend to mellow with age (soften up if you will) milder smokes will be even milder decades from now. Heavy smokes still heavy, but not quite as when original.

Also, aging won't turn a turd into a gem. Twenty years from now those prized Gurkhas one buys at a 97% discount will still taste like a cow paddy.
MACS Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
I prefer fresh VSG's. Any more than a year or two and they don't taste the way I like them.

Some cigars, as was said, age well for many years and only get better. Some age well for a few years and then start to go downhill. I think it all depends on the quality you start with and the strength (at least for some).
Pudding Mittens Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
Good thing I like really strong sticks, then. Generally they're the best for long-term aging, although it's just one variable of many.
euodias Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-16-2009
Posts: 1,467
Limiting oxygen exposure will slow the aging process. If you really want you cigars to taste the same in 20 years, consider vacuum sealing them.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Pudding Mittens wrote:
I keep hearing people on cigar forums saying how they have cigars that have aged so long that they've lost flavor, quality, call it whatever you like. There is talk of a "peak" amount of age whereupon you'd better smoke them fast or they'll start "losing".

I've been aging cigars a long time now, and have large numbers of a wide variety of cigars up to and including 11 years old, and never once have I definitively identified any "losing" of flavor or quality due to age.

What I've found is diminishing returns: big improvements up-front, then slower improvements that trend toward zero additional improvement as time goes on. However, I've never smoked a very long-aged stick and thought "this is lower quality than it used to be".

What's interesting is, I've always kept my stuff at 68-70% or so. I've noticed the folks complaining about cigars "peaking" and then losing quality tend to be the same folks who advocate storage at various points in the 58-65% range.

I've also heard folks discuss concerns about some of those lower humidity levels causing the cigars' oils to be lost over time.

So putting 2 and 2 together, I do wonder if the lower humidity levels may be CAUSING the degradation in flavor/quality, over long spans of time, via loss of oils.

Thoughts? Don't flame me, low humidity devotees, I'm just relating my experience and theorizing out loud here. :)


You're doing it all wrong.

Box all of those up and give them away. You don't know what you have or what you're doing anyways. Might as well take up knitting or scrapbooking.

They're cigars. Smoke 'em if ya gots 'em!
Pudding Mittens Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
DrMaddVibe wrote:
You're doing it all wrong. [...] You don't know what you have or what you're doing anyways. Might as well take up knitting or scrapbooking.

It's always wonderfully convenient when someone makes it very clear what kind of person they are so soon after meeting them! Thanks for saving me time!

Also, I can't take up scrapbooking or knitting. Knitting needles have a REALLY tight draw, and no matter how long I age the scrapbooking paper, it still tastes like schitt when I roll it up and try to smoke it.

Herfing
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Pudding Mittens wrote:
It's always wonderfully convenient when someone makes it very clear what kind of person they are so soon after meeting them! Thanks for saving me time!

Also, I can't take up scrapbooking or knitting. Knitting needles have a REALLY tight draw, and no matter how long I age the scrapbooking paper, it still tastes like schitt when I roll it up and try to smoke it.

Herfing



You're welcome. Now, go worry about some other useless crap.
dharbolt Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-03-2013
Posts: 6,931
Um... I'm willing to offer my pallet as a tester for your theory. I'll just need a box each of the same cigar fresh, aged at 70% and aged at 65%. I'll smoke them all and report back...
dharbolt Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-03-2013
Posts: 6,931
Dp
Herfosaurus Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-29-2012
Posts: 89
I have cigars that are considerably older than yours ... my oldest are a couple of Bolivar Lonsdales from 1980. I have cigars from the late 1990's that I have stored at controlled humidity (66 to 68%) since I got them. And I can tell you that some of them have changed significantly -- for better or worse -- over time. I have late-90's Bolivar Coronas Gigante that are still flavorful, but much milder than they were 10 years ago. And I have similar-vintage Montecristo #2's that are about the same strength as they were when new, but with a creamy, full body that clearly developed with age.

Do all cigars change with age? I doubt it. Do some cigars change with age? Absolutely.
Abrignac Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
dharbolt wrote:
I like getting Dp'd


oh my , , ,

wheel (RIP)
Pudding Mittens Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,291
Thanks, Herfosaurus. Good information!
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