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Last post 7 years ago by Covfireman. 103 replies replies.
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Berkley Free Speech
tailgater Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Typical liberal stance:
I don't agree with your viewpoint.
I will protest you.
And my protest will turn violent and shut you down.
Free speech wins again.


I say cut off their funding immediately until the school offers a solution to this behavior.
then they'll see how much "free" speech costs.

Friggin losers.

victor809 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
....
Your requesting government retribution to the protests...
I'm not sure you understand how free speech works...
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
"The university said fires were set, including one caused by a firebomb that ignited a generator-powered spotlight, and commercial-grade fireworks were thrown at police. NBC Bay Area showed a group of people grab a metal barricade and smash it against a door." - NBC

What has this got to do with free speech? I don't see how anyone could confuse clear riots and violence with free speech, Victor.

I'm pretty sure Tail was referring to the viewpoint expected from planned guest speaker.....rioting to prevent free speech.....that's a pretty big wtf
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
The protests are free speech. You can arrest the rioters without having to defund the University.

This isn't a difficult problem. Arrest people starting fires...

Tail's solution is to have the federal government (huh... thought you guys liked less government involvement) punish all students for a groups protests.
dstieger Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
You don't think the school has any responsibility for the rioting? Preventing, nor stopping?
dstieger Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:


Tail's solution is to have the federal government (huh... thought you guys liked less government involvement) punish all students for a groups protests.


Or....by removing government involvement in funding the school, an argument could be made that there'd be less government involvement...everybody should be happy....I'm sure the anarchist students would be appalled to learn that federal funds allocated by the Trump administration might make their miserable lives possible....STOP the madness of federal involvement in our schools!!!!
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
pretty sure if someone was to get butt-raped at da school the school would get sued.. just the way it works.. Mellow
bgz Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I would argue that you could cut their federal funding due to them not being able to control their students.

I mean, why send them money if all it's going to go for is fixing windows, cars and medical bills from rioters.

Protesting is one thing (all for protesting), but indiscriminately destroying things because they want to silence a scheduled speaker is another.

A lot of good science comes out of Berkeley, but their students' actions are appalling... They need to fix their s#17.

victor809 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You're assuming any of this is the students.. and not just a protest on the campus.

You're also assuming the school is supporting the rioting.

Arrest the rioters, who may or may not have any involvement in the school at all. Remember, bringing an inflammatory azz wipe like that Milo's guy will bring you protestors from the general population...

The only thing we know that is for a fact associated with the school is the speaker.
delta1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Setting fires and attacking others isn't free speech...non-violent protest is...there's something happening here...

The university is the basic fundamental free (not cost) and open marketplace of ideas, including those on the far right. The university has a responsibility to protect the guest speaker and those who want to hear him, once they invited him in. Security was not adequate in this case.
The cost of protecting some speakers could be enormous...so that's a consideration for who speaks on a college campus.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
dstieger wrote:
"The university said fires were set, including one caused by a firebomb that ignited a generator-powered spotlight, and commercial-grade fireworks were thrown at police. NBC Bay Area showed a group of people grab a metal barricade and smash it against a door." - NBC

What has this got to do with free speech? I don't see how anyone could confuse clear riots and violence with free speech, Victor.

I'm pretty sure Tail was referring to the viewpoint expected from planned guest speaker.....rioting to prevent free speech.....that's a pretty big wtf


That's what I took from it, as well. They don't agree with what was going to be said by Milo Yiannopoulos, so they rioted violently to prevent it.

Edit: and apparently Victor is okay with it because he thinks Milo is an inflammatory ass wipe.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... you missed the part where I said arrest the rioters...
Mithrandir Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-17-2006
Posts: 2,152
victor809 wrote:
... you missed the part where I said arrest the rioters...


V8, what are your thoughts why this is not happening?
Abrignac Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
victor809 wrote:
The protests are free speech. You can arrest the rioters without having to defund the University.

This isn't a difficult problem. Arrest people starting fires...

Tail's solution is to have the federal government (huh... thought you guys liked less government involvement) punish all students for a groups protests.


Not that easy.

The assholes that caused the damage aren't going to let uniformed police officers get near them. Like the cowards they are they will run when the police start approaching. Perhaps, law enforcement can fine a way to teach K9's to target specific people. It would be nice to catch a few and find out who is funding them.

Next best thing is to have the universities do a better job policing their own property. This way to do that is squeeze their funds. I don't have a problem with that because UC Berkley is exactly tolerant of speech by people right of center.
Abrignac Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
Mithrandir wrote:
V8, what are your thoughts why this is not happening?



See post 14. One possibility is to train a group of rapid deployment officers who can go into the crowd in plains clothes and catch a few. Such an idea is plausible, but would be very dangerous for the officers.
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I have no idea if it isnt.

I'm not second guessing the police and whether they chose to arrest anyone. I would expect they did. But if they didn't arrest them I'm assuming it was a tactical decision due to the size of the crowds.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
....
Your requesting government retribution to the protests...
I'm not sure you understand how free speech works...


They can protest all they want if they're peaceful.
I know exactly how it works.
I would also charge them for the police/fire response teams.

They won't be able to afford their free speech when they act like thugs.

Abrignac Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
victor809 wrote:
I have no idea if it isnt.

I'm not second guessing the police and whether they chose to arrest anyone. I would expect they did. But if they didn't arrest them I'm assuming it was a tactical decision due to the size of the crowds.

.
I believe there are a variety of reasons. Safety and politics would be 1 & 2 in that order.
victor809 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
My understanding of the situation is that there was a peaceful protest. According to the news about 150 individuals from outside the school came and started trashing crap.

That's neither a good reason to stop protesting or to stop funding a university. Even though those are the easy solutions.

Easy solutions are for the weak and lazy...
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
The protests are free speech. You can arrest the rioters without having to defund the University.

This isn't a difficult problem. Arrest people starting fires...

Tail's solution is to have the federal government (huh... thought you guys liked less government involvement) punish all students for a groups protests.


With government funding come a responsibility to not break the laws.
Do we have to wait for one of the firebombs to kill someone before we act on it?
Cut funding and the school would emphasize how to properly protest.
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
My understanding of the situation is that there was a peaceful protest. According to the news about 150 individuals from outside the school came and started trashing crap.

That's neither a good reason to stop protesting or to stop funding a university. Even though those are the easy solutions.

Easy solutions are for the weak and lazy...


So they know the rioters were 150 from outside the school.
But they don't really know who they were so they didn't arrest them.

Yeah.
Stick with that.

Stinkdyr Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
dstieger wrote:
Or....by removing government involvement in funding the school, an argument could be made that there'd be less government involvement...everybody should be happy....I'm sure the anarchist students would be appalled to learn that federal funds allocated by the Trump administration might make their miserable lives possible....STOP the madness of federal involvement in our schools!!!!



End Welfare in all of its forms. Subsidies are a form of welfare.

Herfing
Abrignac Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
tailgater wrote:
So they know the rioters were 150 from outside the school.
But they don't really know who they were so they didn't arrest them.

Yeah.
Stick with that.



My thoughts exactly.

Since they were wearing masks how would anyone know who they are? Absent that, how would one know if they were from outside the university?
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tail... you keep pretending a university is a closed campus. Hell this was a retail area. Businesses any random citizenry.

But sure... it totally makes sense to cut university funding.

The same groups shut down 880 outside of Oakland a number of months ago. Sounds like we should cut off funding to CHP as well... or DOT.
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I heard Pelosi was under one of them masks... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
cut-off doesn't have to happen immediately....as long as secession happens in next 18 months, I'm ok waiting until then
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I don't think this was even a threat from Trump... he just threw a question out there..... if it makes the idiots think twice then good... but he hasn't exactly drawn a red-line yet... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Tail... you keep pretending a university is a closed campus. Hell this was a retail area. Businesses any random citizenry.

But sure... it totally makes sense to cut university funding.

The same groups shut down 880 outside of Oakland a number of months ago. Sounds like we should cut off funding to CHP as well... or DOT.


Yeah. I said it was a closed campus.
Where do you get this crap?

I'm all for free speech and protests.
But the organizers have to prepare: pull permits, make sure it's done properly, etc.

If they did let in a riot squad from "outside" the university, then they are still responsible.

You have a party in your house and the homeless come by to sell drugs and provide sexual favors for money then YOU will be the one in trouble. You can't say "well they're from out in the street".

But why should we expect college kids or a cigar forum liberal to comprehend anything so complex as Responsibility?

tailgater Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
But please don't forget to invite me to that party.
Lots of those homeless broads have no teef.


Stinkdyr Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
tailgater wrote:
Yeah. I said it was a closed campus.
Where do you get this crap?

I'm all for free speech and protests.
But the organizers have to prepare: pull permits, make sure it's done properly, etc.

If they did let in a riot squad from "outside" the university, then they are still responsible.

You have a party in your house and the homeless come by to sell drugs and provide sexual favors for money then YOU will be the one in trouble. You can't say "well they're from out in the street".



But why should we expect college kids or a cigar forum liberal to comprehend anything so complex as Responsibility?



no u dint.....NO U DINT JUST USE THE "R" WORD!

Not talking
victor809 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tail. How do you otherwise compare a protest in a public area to a party in your own home?

Not the same thing.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
ya, there were prolly some babes at the protest... Mellow
elRopo Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
Build the wall around Kalifornia and give it back to Mexico. Even trade if they pay for the wall.
MACS Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
elRopo wrote:
Build the wall around Kalifornia and give it back to Mexico. Even trade if they pay for the wall.


Hey, whoa... mofo. We got Yosemite, Sequoia National Forest, and most of the damn groceries we eat come from CA.

NOT an even trade.
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
too much cool stuff there... we just gotta figure out how to get the idiots out... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
MACS wrote:
Hey, whoa... mofo. We got Yosemite, Sequoia National Forest, and most of the damn groceries we eat come from CA.

NOT an even trade.


Thanks, MACS. Appreciate a little support, even though you are planning to be a future refugee...
jjanecka Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
MACS, the food might come from Cali but they're having major drought issues because they're farming desert lands. We'd be better off farming in real agricultural areas.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Droughts over, problem is what they did to the central valley to save some sucker fish nobody cares about except some native American's Who couldn't get a casino license
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Tail. How do you otherwise compare a protest in a public area to a party in your own home?

Not the same thing.


You prefer cookout?

Grasping.
Straws.
It's not very becoming on you.

tailgater Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
jjanecka wrote:
MACS, the food might come from Cali but they're having major drought issues because they're farming desert lands. We'd be better off farming in real agricultural areas.


It's always a drought.
Unless it's the rainy season with mud slides, that is.

victor809 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If you can't understand how people who you have no control over might show up at a public event on public streets...

Then you really shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Speyside Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
If there is a pot to stir, TG is the FOG to do it. Of course Victor is a master stirrer, um no, masturba***.
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
get them two in a room and love would happen
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Freaks
elRopo Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
MACS wrote:
Hey, whoa... mofo. We got Yosemite, Sequoia National Forest, and most of the damn groceries we eat come from CA.

NOT an even trade.

You're right it wouldn't be an even trade, Mexico would never go for it. Herfing
zitotczito Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
I have got the solution, when these left wing progressive mask wearing garbage riot, destroy property, attack and hurt people, we swoop in and arrest them all. We then exchange them for all the Muslim Refugees on a one for one basis. The anarchist would then learn a civil lesson while having their heads cut off, problem solved. It seems while we would be possibly letting in a few terrorist, those attacks are way less than the attacks on our country by our own people.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
what percentage of 'Our own people' vs them foreigners committed terrorists acts here in the past 20 years..?? Think
Speyside Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The KKK endorsed Trump. That didn't mean he was responsible for them or wanted them, or respected them. How is this any different. There has been no link established between Berkley and the anarchists. Those protesting peacefully were well within their rights. I hear all the time here that the federal government should stay out of states buisness. How is this any different.
TMCTLT Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Speyside wrote:
The KKK endorsed Trump. That didn't mean he was responsible for them or wanted them, or respected them. How is this any different. There has been no link established between Berkley and the anarchists. Those protesting peacefully were well within their rights. I hear all the time here that the federal government should stay out of states buisness. How is this any different.



I agree with this^^
Only thing I would add....if Berkley does not already have language in their....student rights handbook or whateva admonishing and Warning anyone who engages in anarchy they Will be dealt with swiftly and severely needs to be added to the wording.
bgz Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
bgz wrote:
I would argue that you could cut their federal funding due to them not being able to control their students.

I mean, why send them money if all it's going to go for is fixing windows, cars and medical bills from rioters.

Protesting is one thing (all for protesting), but indiscriminately destroying things because they want to silence a scheduled speaker is another.

A lot of good science comes out of Berkeley, but their students' actions are appalling... They need to fix their s#17.




I don't quote my own posts much, but in this case I quoted it based on the previous posts and not the actual news.

In any case... I changed my mind, if they were outsiders and came in wearing masks, then that is a cowardice act by a group of vandals and looters.

I no longer think that their funds should be cut over it.

I'm thinking their insurance should probably cover it.
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