America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 7 years ago by Covfireman. 82 replies replies.
2 Pages12>
Betsy Devos Education Secretary.
Speyside Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think she is unprepared for this post.
elRopo Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
Yours or her's?
Speyside Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
LOL. Very good.
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
horrible
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Yeah, because things have been ran so well....
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
not a logical reason to give it to her...and who learned you English?
deadeyedick Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,075
Depends iffn' ya think vouchers are better than public screwools to educate our kids. Could be doable.
delta1 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
She seems to be a shill for charter schools, and cited erroneous data to try to show the success rates for the ones her family ran in Michigan when questioned by Congress. The charter schools In Michigan have a poor record, not much better than the public schools, despite cherry picking... Her written questionnaire to the Senate had numerous plagiarized statements. She's either lazy or an airhead. Hope she doesn't do too much damage and if she is both, she won't.


http://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2017/01/18/betsy-devos-charter-schools/96718680/


Federal funding is about 10% of total revenues for most public schools: the states provide the rest. I'm ambivalent about the need for a federal education department, but not sure if there would be consistent and high quality public schools in every state without the fed. The department's goal is to "promote student achievement, ensure global competitiveness (educated labor pool, good for business), foster excellence, and equal access to education."

One troubling observation while being questioned by the Senate: DeVos emphasized "access and opportunity" for all children, leaving out "equal."
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
She seems to be a shill for charter schools, and cited erroneous data to try to show the success rates for the ones her family ran in Michigan when questioned by Congress. The charter schools In Michigan have a poor record, not much better than the public schools, despite cherry picking... Her written questionnaire to the Senate had numerous plagiarized statements. She's either lazy or an airhead. Hope she doesn't do too much damage and if she is both, she won't.


http://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2017/01/18/betsy-devos-charter-schools/96718680/


Federal funding is about 10% of total revenues for most public schools: the states provide the rest. I'm ambivalent about the need for a federal education department, but not sure if there would be consistent and high quality public schools in every state without the fed. The department's goal is to "promote student achievement, ensure global competitiveness (educated labor pool, good for business), foster excellence, and equal access to education."

One troubling observation while being questioned by the Senate: DeVos emphasized "access and opportunity" for all children, leaving out "equal."


I don't totally disagree with you Al. But, public education is almost nonexistent. If anything, a voucher system will require public institutions to compete for educational dollars. This, I believe, will in turn force public schools to return to their core mission which is to educate. They have done poorly in this respect lately.

Thumper as you like to call Trump plans to force government to produces results. For the life of me, I can't understand what is wrong with that. It seems those on the left are more interested in taking shots at him instead of working with him to improve poor service.

“If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.” ― Eldridge Cleaver

frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
Massachusetts overall has good public schools, despite unfunded mandates like Bush's No Child Left Behind and requirements that have forced "teaching to the test".

Competing for educational dollars makes no sense when discussing publicly funded schools. But if schools outside of that definition want to compete for private money/tuition...more power to them, as long as they are subject to the same standards as the public schools. Currently they are not, even when it comes to requiring some standard that decides what constitutes a "qualified" teacher. No public money then as far as I am concerned.

If a family decides that private education suits them, go for it. Might mean get a second job though. Unfortunately, Al is correct about "cherry picking". Your kid may not get into a charter school if he/she might ruin their "stats", even though those schools are considered public. Oh, poor kids can attend, as long as they raise the averages.

The trick is to educate the rest of them.

And most folks forget that many of the tax dollars go to heating the schools, maintaining the buildings, etc. Simply transferring a dollar amount to a school with different regulations based on students lost does not cover the costs of maintaining buildings that does not go down due to less students!
gummy jones Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
my thoughts are 3 fold:

I think education is best run at the federal level as directed by massive campaign dollars from the teacher's union gestapo

I also think it is best if poor black kids have no options to escape the zoos that are "educating" them. I base this opinion on the fact that the public school in my white suburb seems to be doing a good job.

finally, I think states, local school boards and especially parents don't know what is best for their residents/students/children

[sarcasm off]
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
where did you learn to think so well?

HA!
gummy jones Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
I have been good at thinking well for a dog's age
frankj1 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
thank a teacher?
Abrignac Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
frankj1 wrote:
Massachusetts overall has good public schools, despite unfunded mandates like Bush's No Child Left Behind and requirements that have forced "teaching to the test".

Competing for educational dollars makes no sense when discussing publicly funded schools. But if schools outside of that definition want to compete for private money/tuition...more power to them, as long as they are subject to the same standards as the public schools. Currently they are not, even when it comes to requiring some standard that decides what constitutes a "qualified" teacher. No public money then as far as I am concerned.

If a family decides that private education suits them, go for it. Might mean get a second job though. Unfortunately, Al is correct about "cherry picking". Your kid may not get into a charter school if he/she might ruin their "stats", even though those schools are considered public. Oh, poor kids can attend, as long as they raise the averages.

The trick is to educate the rest of them.

And most folks forget that many of the tax dollars go to heating the schools, maintaining the buildings, etc. Simply transferring a dollar amount to a school with different regulations based on students lost does not cover the costs of maintaining buildings that does not go down due to less students!


No Child Left Behind is ridiculous. As most here know, on my off duty days I worked as an SRO. It was truly sickening to watch asshole kids disrupt children who wanted to learn. There were no consequences. Schools couldn't expel them, instead they would get shuffled from one school to another leaving behind a trail of havoc.

One time I booked a 13 year old kid for robbery. This kid was completely out of control. He disrupted his class and many others because all he did was wonder from one class to another causing chaos. Anyway, one day he took a set of $5 earbuds out of another student's hands. Physically taking something from another person's possession is considered robbery. All robberies in LA are considered felony offenses regardless of the value of the item taken. Since he was a juvenile, I had the option of booking him into juvenile detention on the felony charge or releasing him to a custodian. His state appointed guardian told me that if I released him to her custody she was going to check him right back into school. Since I had an option, I booked him so the school could at least get what I thought would be a 3 day sabbatical. Instead of being released after a few days, he was sent back to north Louisiana to serve juvenile time since the robbery violated his probation in an earlier case.

Anyway, I'm not in favor of replacing public schools with private schools using vouchers. Nor am I in favor of allowing private schools to select which vouchers they accept. Create a list. Make the private schools select each student based on who is next on the list.

I highly favor public schools being forced to compete for those dollars because they will have to quit catering to the teacher unions. Instead I would like to see them start educating children again and being good custodians of public funds.

Its about accountability. Right now there is very little.
MACS Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,747
Teachers unions donate loads of money to democrats.

Is anyone shocked they hate her? I'm not. If our education system and teachers are so good, why are we ranked 17th? Why is it wrong to want to pay teachers based on results? It's like colleges having tenured professors. Once they get paid no matter WTF they do, what is their motivation to do well?

I haven't been paying attention to the uproar, tbh, but I know my son did extremely well in a CA charter school. He did equally well in public middle, and high school... but much of that is because my wife and I stressed education.
ZRX1200 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Oh but MACS, the teachers unions top priorities are the kids and what's best for them and what the parents want.
qmech Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
My wife recruited for UMass Amherst. She tells me the overall impression of her colleagues was Boston public schools was poor
Q
qmech Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
were poor.... damn spell check.😁😂😂
Q
tonygraz Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,231
Job bought and paid for - most of the senate is for sale.
burnem2 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 12-23-2009
Posts: 628
Another op for the Boo Birds, both here and in society, to flap their feathers. horse
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
qmech wrote:
My wife recruited for UMass Amherst. She tells me the overall impression of her colleagues was Boston public schools was poor
Q

yes, Boston. Did she have a chance to assess kids who participated in METCO, the program that allowed city students to enroll in suburban public schools?
Buckwheat Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
I think she is very qualified to get rid the the Department of Education which is what the republicans want to do. Sarcasm
dstieger Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I can't name one Secretary of Education (except DeVos...and I'll have forgotten her name in a month.) Nor can I name a single thing that an Education Secretary has ever done or even influenced in education. I spent a minute or two trying....but, turns out I truly don't GAF
gummy jones Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
dstieger wrote:
I can't name one Secretary of Education (except DeVos...and I'll have forgotten her name in a month.)


thats because no other sec of eds threatened the strangle hold the fed gov and teachers unions have on the institution and the massive funding therein like she does
Gene363 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799

The posts in this thread sounds like a great argument to abolish the US Department of Education.

Just a thought, with all the money we pour into public education we get a really crappy result. This is painfully clear when you think about one room schools of the past managed to teach the three R's that current schools continuously fail to teach with infinitely more support, administration, requirements, regulations etc, etc, etc...
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I dunno. I'm pretty impressed by our school district (for the most part) and what they are teaching. I can honestly say they are teaching things way more advanced at an earlier age than I remember. I guess that's why I don't have the get off my lawn attitude towards future generations some have. I have my masters degree and struggle with some of the 6th grade homework.

that said... we moved where we did BECAUSE of the school district. KCMO was awful, lost accreditation and was taken over by the State. So when I read comments like Gene's I assume he has experience more closely aligned with KCMO than mine.

The KCMO vs. our school district shows local politics, funds/resource, and graft/corruption issues at their worst. Our district tries hard to keep kids from other districts out (I struggle with that).

As for Devos - I've not bagged on Trumps cabinet choices and think for the most part he should be able to pick who he wants. I do struggle with sessions based on history but not enough to think he shouldn't get through. Devos on the other hand I knew nothing about. I have no strong feelings about her, or really federal educational funding issues (other than the school lunch nonsense). I don't feel strongly about vouchers or not if done correctly. What bothered me about her is what I saw during the hearings. She seemed not to have a clue, and to be completely inept and in many cases dismissive/nonresponsive. Maybe that's what we want and serves a purpose.

If you think the department should be ****canned that may be ok... although I would think you would want someone competent at that. But if you think there is any purpose to the department I would think you would be worried about her performance or lack of.
dstieger Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html

Nothing contained in that page has convinced me that I should GAF any more than I already do. Maybe the second part below....need someone to administer to the spending on (valuable?) programs. As to the first part.....ha...lol.



"Mission

Despite the growth of the Federal role in education, the Department never strayed far from what would become its official mission: to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access.

The Department carries out its mission in two major ways. First, the Secretary and the Department play a leadership role in the ongoing national dialogue over how to improve the results of our education system for all students. This involves such activities as raising national and community awareness of the education challenges confronting the Nation, disseminating the latest discoveries on what works in teaching and learning, and helping communities work out solutions to difficult educational issues.

Second, the Department pursues its twin goals of access and excellence through the administration of programs that cover every area of education and range from preschool education through postdoctoral research. For more information on the Department's programs see the President's FY 2017 Budget Request for Education."
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Is she gonna allow open carry on school grounds..?? Huh
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Think
When I think of the DOE I think of K thru 12.. what is their role In the Universities..?? Huh
gummy jones Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
DrafterX wrote:
Is she gonna allow open carry on school grounds..?? Huh


i heard it will be mandated and those who violate the decree will be shot on sight
Gene363 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
In related news,

​Rep. Massie Introduces Bill to Abolish Federal Department of Education

Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Representative Thomas Massie introduced H.R. 899, a bill to abolish the federal Department of Education. The bill, which is one sentence long, states, “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2018.”

On the day of Betsy DeVos’ scheduled Senate confirmation for Secretary of Education, Massie said, “Neither Congress nor the President, through his appointees, has the constitutional authority to dictate how and what our children must learn."

Massie added, "Unelected bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. should not be in charge of our children’s intellectual and moral development. States and local communities are best positioned to shape curricula that meet the needs of their students. Schools should be accountable. Parents have the right to choose the most appropriate educational opportunity for their children, including home school, public school, or private school."


http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/rep-massie-introduces-bill-to-abolish-federal-department-of-education
dstieger Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
DrafterX wrote:
Think
When I think of the DOE I think of K thru 12.. what is their role In the Universities..?? Huh

https://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget17/budget-factsheet.pdf

Pell grants and a lot of gobbledygook....

I did like that this is the smallest department even though it has the third largest budget (and apparently the size hasn't grown in years...I didn't try to validate that yet, nor do I know whether they simply expanded through contract workers like a lot of departments that have 'stabilized/limited growth'.)
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
So Universities with safe-zones and anti-conservative groups just might be in danger of losing some funding... starting to make sense now... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Would be nice if somebody stepped in and reclaimed the so called Lottery money that was suppose to be going towards education... I never understood how and why they can use that money for other stuff when the voters approved the lottery because it would fund education... Mellow
Buckwheat Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Gene363 wrote:
In related news,

​Rep. Massie Introduces Bill to Abolish Federal Department of Education



http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/rep-massie-introduces-bill-to-abolish-federal-department-of-education


See #23 fog
bgz Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
DrafterX wrote:
Would be nice if somebody stepped in and reclaimed the so called Lottery money that was suppose to be going towards education... I never understood how and why they can use that money for other stuff when the voters approved the lottery because it would fund education... Mellow


Ya, I don't get that s#17 either.
Mr. Jones Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,419
I know nothing about her....
Just media blurbs and sound bites from those hearings...

At the big HEARINGS table...from the waste up....
She looks pretty good, nice face ,hairdo and has good taste in spectacles...

I wanted to sit wear the microphone was
And make her BLOW me while I held the back of her head....
If she stands up? I hope she's not fat.

Plus, I thought? I heard that she is a BILLIONAIRE?
( or many many millionaire)....
Why work in Wash. D.C. , in a dumb cabinet position for peanuts and all the hassle and scrutiny...if your
A BILLIONAIRE??

I THINK she wants to get away from her husband
( if married?)and live in Georgetown , while getting laid @
The Occidental Grille HAPPY HOUR BY
YOUNG WHITE GUYS AND POWERFUL LOBBYIST's...
Buckwheat Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Abrignac wrote:

Anyway, I'm not in favor of replacing public schools with private schools using vouchers. Nor am I in favor of allowing private schools to select which vouchers they accept. Create a list. Make the private schools select each student based on who is next on the list.

I highly favor public schools being forced to compete for those dollars because they will have to quit catering to the teacher unions. Instead I would like to see them start educating children again and being good custodians of public funds.

Its about accountability. Right now there is very little.


"Make private schools" - Don't you see how silly this statement is? fog
frankj1 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
Mr. Jones wrote:
I know nothing about her....
Just media blurbs and sound bites from those hearings...

At the big HEARINGS table...from the waste up....
She looks pretty good, nice face ,hairdo and has good taste in spectacles...

I wanted to sit wear the microphone was
And make her BLOW me while I held the back of her head....
If she stands up? I hope she's not fat.

Plus, I thought? I heard that she is a BILLIONAIRE?
( or many many millionaire)....
Why work in Wash. D.C. , in a dumb cabinet position for peanuts and all the hassle and scrutiny...if your
A BILLIONAIRE??

I THINK she wants to get away from her husband
( if married?)and live in Georgetown , while getting laid @
The Occidental Grille HAPPY HOUR BY
YOUNG WHITE GUYS AND POWERFUL LOBBYIST's...

I think I just figured out who was really Magwitch all this time!
opelmanta1900 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Buckwheat wrote:
"Make private schools" - Don't you see how silly this statement is? fog


I thought it was silly when we punished a private entity for not baking a gay cake... but we did it!
victor809 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What does a gay cake have sex with?
dstieger Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
bu(nd)tt cake?
dstieger Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
fruitcake?
dstieger Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
POUND cake?
frankj1 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
crueller?
Buckwheat Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I thought it was silly when we punished a private entity for not baking a gay cake... but we did it!


I didn't know that cakes had a sexual orientation.
I think the problem was that a baker didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding and then the politicians started try and score points over the issue. fog
opelmanta1900 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Buckwheat wrote:
I didn't know that cakes had a sexual orientation.
I think the problem was that a baker didn't want to make a cake for a gay wedding and then the politicians started try and score points over the issue. fog



You inferred that because the schools were privately owned the government could not compel them to do anything and I offered a clear and concise example of how the obama administration made clear that was not the case...

pretty sure german chocolate cake is as hetero as they come... and I've heard lady finger cake is oddly bi-curious... could just be a rumor...
victor809 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm pretty sure the combination of dark chocolate and walnuts makes German chocolate cake a gay schiezen cake...
delta1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
DrafterX wrote:
Think
When I think of the DOE I think of K thru 12.. what is their role In the Universities..?? Huh


The DOE enforces Title IX, the law that ensures equal access and funding for women students and minimum graduation rates at colleges and universities, especially in their athletic programs. Part of that mission is to promote safety and security, as implemented by the Campus Safety and Security Act, and to promote awareness of, and to prevent, rapes and sexual assaults, hate crimes, and alcohol, drug and weapons and firearms related problems on college campuses.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>