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Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
The most overturned court circuit upheld the TRO on the travel ban.
elRopo Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 6:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
And if Trump is smart? He'll wait until the supreme court is properly aligned before filing the appeal.
fiddler898 Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 6:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Right. Let's keep targeting the religious. That'll make America great again.


Brilliant!
elRopo Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
Well, offhand I can't recall any mention of Canadians or Japanese wanting to kill or terrorize Americans so, they weren't included in the ban. Only seven of nearly fifty Muslim majority countries were included in the ban.
elRopo Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
If Japan was banned would it be a Buddhist ban?
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
White Supremacists born in the USA have proven to be a zillion times more likely to perform acts of terror on our soil.

But the most effective way to become a despot is to scare people so deeply that they willingly give up freedom and rights in cowering prayers for security...
elRopo Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
Would be immigrants in other countries have no rights under our constitution. There is no constitutional right to immigrate. How is this giving up our freedom?
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
elRopo wrote:
Would be immigrants in other countries have no rights under our constitution. There is no constitutional right to immigrate. How is this giving up our freedom?

you aren't wrong, but at least admit that the impetus for this swift move has been nurtured by a false marketing campaign meant to convince Americans that their lives and jobs are in danger from these immigrants....

it has zero to do with just enforcing laws.

Where did your relatives come from?
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
frankj1 wrote:
Where did your relatives come from?


O'er yonder
elRopo Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 7:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
What I'm saying is that we have the right to pick and choose who we want and when we want them. I believe Trump is saying the same thing. Simple as that.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
elRopo wrote:
What I'm saying is that we have the right to pick and choose who we want and when we want them. I believe Trump is saying the same thing. Simple as that.

we agree about deciding who gets in.
We disagree about Trump saying the same thing.

But it is well documented we have way more to fear from US born White Supremacists and yet no fear mongering campaign has been foisted on us.

Is this about safety in his mind?
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Abrignac wrote:
O'er yonder

me too!
elRopo Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
frankj1 wrote:
we agree about deciding who gets in.
We disagree about Trump saying the same thing.

But it is well documented we have way more to fear from US born White Supremacists and yet no fear mongering campaign has been foisted on us.

Is this about safety in his mind?

Do you deny that there are people in those banned countries that would harm Americans if given the chance? Why let them come here?
elRopo Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
The Arian's are here already, just saying.
Abrignac Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
It's nothing but political hay. Both, Clinton and Obama spoke out about the need to carefully screen immigrants. It was ok though as they were standard bearers of the left. But when Trump does it, it's like he $hit down the throat of Lady Liberty.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
elRopo wrote:
Do you deny that there are people in those banned countries that would harm Americans if given the chance? Why let them come here?

none from those countries have done harm, so why not a ban on the countries that produced both proven terrorists and have Trump Hotels?

There are people from Minnesota who fit your description.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
elRopo wrote:
The Arian's are here already, just saying.

Iranians are Aryans, not Arabs...just saying.
Abrignac Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
frankj1 wrote:
none from those countries have done harm, so why not a ban on the countries that produced both proven terrorists and have Trump Hotels?

There are people from Minnesota who fit your description.


That's like saying if we can't stop everyone we shouldn't stop anyone. FWIW, I'd have no problem extending the ban to Saudi's as well.

Another excellent reason to open up more coastal areas to drilling. If we produced an extra 5 million barrels of oil daily over our current production we could watch the Saudi's grasp on geopolitics weaken significantly.
elRopo Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
Abrignac wrote:
It's nothing but political hay. Both, Clinton and Obama spoke out about the need to carefully screen immigrants. It was ok though as they were standard bearers of the left. But when Trump does it, it's like he $hit down the throat of Lady Liberty.

∆
What he said.
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 9:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
elRopo wrote:
∆
What he said.

OK

we'll just ignore those countries that have attacked us.
jjanecka Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:00 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
elRopo wrote:
The Arian's are here already, just saying.


And how dare they come into our country and try to debase the Trinitarian view of Christianity. I thought Constantine snuffed out that heresy nearly 1300 years ago...
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Abrignac wrote:
That's like saying if we can't stop everyone we shouldn't stop anyone. FWIW, I'd have no problem extending the ban to Saudi's as well.

why not every country?

why not get us all worked up about the terrorists born here, radicalized teens from Minnesota (hate to single them out) and White Supremacists?

I fear that the end result will not be greater safety at all. Though his hero Putin has safer streets than we do, we have always known freedom came with a risk.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
And how dare they come into our country and try to debase the Trinitarian view of Christianity. I thought Constantine snuffed out that heresy nearly 1300 years ago...

I've so missed this side of you bro!
jjanecka Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:19 PM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
If I overuse it it loses its potency. ;)
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
true, true
Abrignac Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
frankj1 wrote:
why not every country?

why not get us all worked up about the terrorists born here, radicalized teens from Minnesota (hate to single them out) and White Supremacists?

I fear that the end result will not be greater safety at all. Though his hero Putin has safer streets than we do, we have always known freedom came with a risk.


So you're advocating for a policy of stop no one if we can't stop everyone?
99cobra2881 Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 10:47 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
frankj1 wrote:


But it is well documented we have way more to fear from US born White Supremacists and yet no fear mongering campaign has been foisted on us.


Really? This must be cigarbid sarcasm, please tell me it is?
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Feb 9 2017, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If we are going to stop select countries... why not be smart about it? Why do countries which have little historical impact on our safety.

You're both circling the same argument, but aren't achieving anything.

If you banned people from countries where actual visitors have caused damage on our soil the list would be different. Hell if he really cared about safety he'd make it a living list. Every time someone from your country performed a terrorist attack on us soil your country gets added to the list for 12mo.

The list has nothing to do with safety. So why make the argument that frank is just giving up on safety because he can't make it 100%. The current travel ban is an exercise in wasting money and goodwill without gaining any documented amount of safety. Not just a small percentage.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 1:24 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
So you're upset that Obama previously identified those 7 countries as “countries that have a previously identified link to an increased risk of terrorist activity.”?
victor809 Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 2:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
The visa waiver for those countries was removed by obama.
I don't know how that aligns them with other middle eastern countries. But one has to consider what that does before just assuming a random travel ban makes any difference.

Thought. Considered action. That's what is lacking.
TMCTLT Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 6:07 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
we agree about deciding who gets in.
We disagree about Trump saying the same thing.

But it is well documented we have way more to fear from US born White Supremacists and yet no fear mongering campaign has been foisted on us.

Is this about safety in his mind?





Really Frank?????? I'd say in a reality based World we have Much More to fear from any one of the violent BLM groups than ANY supposed White Supremacy group. They seem to be pretty quiet ( even under eight years of a Black race baiting POTUS
But then what do I know, ( may I see the documentation? )
jjanecka Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 6:25 AM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Honestly if it were me, I'd prefer a complete blanket visa ban for all countries period. Let no one new in at all until we can process the current batch of immigrants under Teddy Roosevelt style Americanism so that the want of being an American sticks. We can't have these Europeans in the education system wanting to subvert America into a European style aristocracy nor do we want cartels from south America coming in and sapping money away from American citizens, nor do we want Chinese style Communism, nor do we want Muslims forcing their views on us and radicalizing when we do not accept their point of view.

Blanket ban on all foreigners until we've properly taught everyone to embrace their new home so that they move away from Centralist and Communistic values.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 7:30 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
jjanecka wrote:
Honestly if it were me, I'd prefer a complete blanket visa ban for all countries period. Let no one new in at all until we can process the current batch of immigrants under Teddy Roosevelt style Americanism so that the want of being an American sticks. We can't have these Europeans in the education system wanting to subvert America into a European style aristocracy nor do we want cartels from south America coming in and sapping money away from American citizens, nor do we want Chinese style Communism, nor do we want Muslims forcing their views on us and radicalizing when we do not accept their point of view.

Blanket ban on all foreigners until we've properly taught everyone to embrace their new home so that they move away from Centralist and Communistic values.



Post of the week
gummy jones Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 8:33 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
frankj1 wrote:
why not every country?

why not get us all worked up about the terrorists born here, radicalized teens from Minnesota (hate to single them out) and White Supremacists?


concerning the numbers, you should be much more worried about black males aged 18-35

but lets assume that the threat from the billions of white supremacists in the world is as palpable as you suggest
lets assume that the white supremacy training ground are in full recruitment
why again is that reason to allow more dangerous people from any other group into our great land?

i really dont understand the mindset that because one thing is bad we should accept another bad thing.
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 9:04 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
concerning the numbers, you should be much more worried about black males aged 18-35

but lets assume that the threat from the billions of white supremacists in the world is as palpable as you suggest
lets assume that the white supremacy training ground are in full recruitment
why again is that reason to allow more dangerous people from any other group into our great land?

i really dont understand the mindset that because one thing is bad we should accept another bad thing.

i am not advocating a trade off of one "bad group" for another...
tonygraz Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 9:28 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,230
TMCTLT wrote:
Really Frank?????? I'd say in a reality based World we have Much More to fear from any one of the violent BLM groups than ANY supposed White Supremacy group. They seem to be pretty quiet ( even under eight years of a Black race baiting POTUS
But then what do I know, ( may I see the documentation? )




Of course you would- no point in showing you any documentation you can't/won't understand.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 9:30 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
tonygraz wrote:
Of course you would- no point in showing you any documentation you can't/won't understand.



"At this point what difference would it make?"
jjanecka Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 9:58 AM EST
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
TMCTLT, Obama had Homeland Security bust up almost every known white supremacy group during his administration. That was probably a good thing too it needed to happen and I'm pretty sure other domestic terror groups went down in the process since most of those organizations make deals with other organizations that aren't white.
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 10:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
by sending the IRS after them..?? Huh
DrMaddVibe Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
DrafterX wrote:
by sending the IRS after them..?? Huh


Naw...SUPER ERIC HOLDER!!!!
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
TMCTLT, Obama had Homeland Security bust up almost every known white supremacy group during his administration. That was probably a good thing too it needed to happen and I'm pretty sure other domestic terror groups went down in the process since most of those organizations make deals with other organizations that aren't white.

not to mention the FBI warnings under president Cheney...conspiracies to get into the military and police forces!

this can't really have been unknown here?
delta1 Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
TMCTLT wrote:
Really Frank?????? I'd say in a reality based World we have Much More to fear from any one of the violent BLM groups than ANY supposed White Supremacy group. They seem to be pretty quiet ( even under eight years of a Black race baiting POTUS
But then what do I know, ( may I see the documentation? )




Here's a list of about 40 incidents since 1995 in the US involving homicides committed by suspects aligned with white supremacist groups. The list does not include the Oklahoma City bombing by McVeigh, also a white supremacist. Many of those killed were law enforcement officers.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html?cq_ck=1486485587473
tailgater Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Trump got elected on a platform that puts America first.
Some of his goals are aimed towards the manufacturing unbalance. this was the main reason I supported him.
Some of his other goals were in regards to National Security.
Build a wall. Screen immigrants. etc.

We need to accept the fact that tomorrow's terror plot may not be as simple as gun fight. Or a plane crash.
Dirty bombs are a low probability, but with devastating effects beyond what any of us can imagine.

So do we do something or do we ignore it because it's easier and makes us appear to have empathy?


I was traveling this past week.
I saw how my airplane had life vests under my seat. And the seat cushion could be used as a flotation device.

What is the probability that I'd be able to successfully utilize such a device if needed?
This is a rhetorical question. Because they have NEVER been needed in modern airline travel.
Ever.
Yet, EVERY plane must have them.

As American's we accept the insane costs associated with safety.
yet we balk when people are inconvenienced.


Is this religious? Sure. we all know that the Muslim religion is associated with worldwide terror.
But it wasn't Trump who made the list of 7 countries. And if it doesn't include all the Muslim countries then we can't really call it an attack on a religion.

Stop the rhetoric.
Tell me you don't want America to have secure borders. We can then debate this honestly.
Until then, you're just perpetuating the anti-Trump scare tactics. And quite honestly, it's tiresome.
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Didn't they use them when Capt. Schlumberger crashed in da river..?? Huh
SteveS Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
"gater has spoken my thoughts better than I probably could have done ... it has, in fact, become tiresome in the extreme ... not to mention the politically correct bullsh*tness of the whole thing.
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
Didn't they use them when Capt. Schlumberger crashed in da river..?? Huh


Wearing a life vest and using one to save your life is quite different.
Or so I am told.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
tailgater wrote:
Stop the rhetoric.
Tell me you don't want America to have secure borders. We can then debate this honestly.
Until then, you're just perpetuating the anti-Trump scare tactics. And quite honestly, it's tiresome.



Awesome post...the last paragraph is the one that got me.

To the point...sincere and quite honest.

Point is they won't debate...honestly either. They would rather perpetuate the lies. Trump is homophobic, racist, misogynist and whatever they want to paint him with. That's the game they want to play.

Can you imagine for a second if...just if...one of the illegal immigrants that got in this past week while the 9th Circuit tied this up in knots and bastardized the ruling were to shoot up a mall, set off a bomb in Times Square or hold hostages in a school? That blood is on those judges...AND the morons supporting it. I really hope we can fix the immigration issue...can't or won't build a wall? Lay out a minefield, start using Predator drones and build gun turrets. Pass legislation ending the "anchor baby" too. Enough is enough.
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'll say it tail. I don't want our country to have secure borders.

Why bother?

Let our populace be armed and deal with the issue here. If someone doesn't want to be armed that's their right and they're willing to accept the risk of not being armed (as I do).

Your personal fear that you or someone you love may hit that one in a million chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time when something bad happens is more your problem than mine or anyone elses. Seems silly to waste so much money because you're scared. But... you believe in big government and tax and waste and all that... like a socialist. So I guess that's to be expected.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 6:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
A worker program that could pay massive dividends!!!

Use prison workers...not super max ones...but inmates with 3-5 years left on a sentence...run the open air prison and let Sherrif Joe be the warden...build parts of the wall with them! win-win for the taxpayer. Don't work...don't eat. Work hard...get a hot shower. Show aptitude and willingness...watch some tv. All of the ICE throwbacks? They just earned 5 years for illegally entering our nation. Tough titty said the kitty...ándele...muy bueno! Institute shoot to kill orders and randomly keep inmates on their toes by shooting...LOL!!!

What a boon...let them drag legislation into that one and Trump can employ the National Guard tomorrow.

The Art of the Deal is in da house!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Feb 10 2017, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
victor809 wrote:
Let our populace be armed and deal with the issue here. If someone doesn't want to be armed that's their right and they're willing to accept the risk of not being armed (as I do).



Yeah...any idea how the DNC wants to take guns away?

That's just not a workable solution...ever with the rank and file in DC or the Beltway...or on the Coasts...flyover states live that way now...maybe if we had National repricitory...maybe. We don't though. Guess who is holding that up?
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