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Last post 7 years ago by tonygraz. 89 replies replies.
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Sweden?
gummy jones Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
The difference is that sharia is not compatible with western thought or freedom.

We can draw all the examples we want but no other group is the same and it's not even close.

The results are crime ridden no go zones in historic parts of once great European countries. Multiculturalism at its finest.

Why anyone feels we can import poorly educated and untrained members of societies whose culture is stuck in the dark ages and expect a different result is beyond my comprehension.
teedubbya Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We had some pretty interesting religious zealots escape persecution elsewhere only to attempt to push their own brand here. We had some bad results along the way but managed without banning various religions. If by assimilate that means they can not implement sharia law then absolutely I'm on board. I'm also on record as thinking many in here over state that insidious enemy.

Most Mexicans don't practice sharia and in terms of numbers there are the bigger invader and it odd they seem to weave in and out interchangeable through these conversations. Oddly I was thinking more about them but I think that's my mistake given the op.

We are letting fear drive us. It's one thing to mitigate potential danger, another to be driven by fear and misunderstanding. We are creating scape goats and bogey men. In some regards the terrorists have already won.
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Over time we will get a better understanding of what is really happening here and some will be red faced by their actions or words (or their next generations will be). Perhaps it will be me.
frankj1 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tw-"We are letting fear drive us. It's one thing to mitigate potential danger, another to be driven by fear and misunderstanding. We are creating scape goats and bogey men. In some regards the terrorists have already won."

that's what I am getting at.

I might be relying on fake news from a couple of years ago, but I am under the impression that since 2009 the "flow" of immigrants from the south has drastically slowed, and over most years immigration from China has been the leader.

Delta, can you do anything to stem the tide?
teedubbya Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I dunno. Seems to me every time in history someone vilifies mass groups of people they think they are right to do so and no other group of people have ever been like these. It's different this time combined with they all lie so even if you talk with them and find different than I say it's not true. it doesn't feel like a very original recipe.

That's not to say don't be careful and is in no way supporting illegal immigration. Those are non starters with me.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I think we're alone now...
teedubbya Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think in the spirit of that's what she said

the American Indians, aztecs, mayans, etc would disagree with my opinion. But since they were uncivilized barbarians and in the end we did them a favor and there is no white guilt here, I like to think we got this.

Good night Tiffany.
delta1 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
frankj1 wrote:
tw-"We are letting fear drive us. It's one thing to mitigate potential danger, another to be driven by fear and misunderstanding. We are creating scape goats and bogey men. In some regards the terrorists have already won."

that's what I am getting at.

I might be relying on fake news from a couple of years ago, but I am under the impression that since 2009 the "flow" of immigrants from the south has drastically slowed, and over most years immigration from China has been the leader.

Delta, can you do anything to stem the tide?


You've been the recipient of fake news, frank. Since 2000, Mexico has sent the most immigrants to the US, followed by India, then the Philippines, with China a very close fourth. If the people from Hong Kong and Taiwan are lumped in with the ones from China, then China would be third.

I hate the Chinese immigrants and wish they would go home. They have forced many of my favorite traditional Chinese/Cantonese restaurants out of business. There are now several new "Chinatowns" in SoCal, all crowded and bustling with gleaming new businesses, shops and restaurants, opened by a new generation of wealthy Chinese capitalists. I hoped they would leave since I've been boycotting them, but they seem to be popular with the millennials...

No matter, I prefer Mexican food now...
teedubbya Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Reading about the Stockholm riots maybe trump just got out in front of his skis a little bit.
delta1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Cause...effect? dunno...he's quite the enigma...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
delta1 wrote:
Cause...effect? dunno...he's quite the enigma...



You whiny little butthurt man.
delta1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
That's it?
Stinkdyr Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
teedubbya wrote:
As I recall there was great fear of the filthy Irish invaders coming in legally and illegally and stealing jobs and ruining neighborhoods etc.



That they did!

Herfing
Stinkdyr Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
gummy jones wrote:
The difference ... Multiculturalism at its finest.

Why anyone feels we can import poorly educated and untrained members of societies whose culture is stuck in the dark ages and expect a different result is beyond my comprehension.



U jus need an Illiberal Lefty to esplain it to uze betta!

Beer
TMCTLT Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
gummy jones wrote:
The difference is that sharia is not compatible with western thought or freedom.

We can draw all the examples we want but no other group is the same and it's not even close.

The results are crime ridden no go zones in historic parts of once great European countries. Multiculturalism at its finest.

Why anyone feels we can import poorly educated and untrained members of societies whose culture is stuck in the dark ages and expect a different result is beyond my comprehension.






Very well said, and why we cannot....WILL NOT look to Europe and see it unfold there and do our damndest to keep it from happening here is also beyond comprehension.
qmech Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
All for fair immigration .....let the state department consider all who wish to come here legally. I do not find it fair that a disproportionate group find favor unless it is based on skills that will help build the country.
Best
Q
PS I am still bewildered how we train PhD and Master students ,a number who wish to stay,and then make it difficult for them to obtain green cards.
qmech Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
All for fair immigration .....let the state department consider all who wish to come here legally. I do not find it fair that a disproportionate group find favor unless it is based on skills that will help build the country.
Best
Q
PS I am still bewildered how we train PhD and Master students ,a number who wish to stay,and then make it difficult for them to obtain green cards.
qmech Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
The difficulty is blending two or more cultures so vastly different into a given country. The US succeeds in a number of cases due to our history, population and the size of our country,in addition to other factors.Trump spoke apparently thinking of a program he watched,yet will Swedish immigration succeed in time? I think the road will be quite difficult, given the problems in France ,Germany and the Netherlands which appear to have more diverse populations than Sweden etc.
Q
TMCTLT Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
qmech wrote:
The difficulty is blending two or more cultures so vastly different into a given country. The US succeeds in a number of cases due to our history, population and the size of our country,in addition to other factors.Trump spoke apparently thinking of a program he watched,yet will Swedish immigration succeed in time? I think the road will be quite difficult, given the problems in France ,Germany and the Netherlands which appear to have more diverse populations than Sweden etc.
Q



I think you'd get a completely different story line if the people affected by this unfettered migration of people unvettable were told rather than their media.
qmech Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
The Irish,Italian etc. immigrants of long ago had it rough. Yet with no safety net , they worked as a group and individually, sometimes took it on the chin and prevailed.They also had things in common with the citizen like being from Europe, which helped(not too alien) . Religiously speaking Protestant vs Catholic charged some, however the divide between those living in the USA beforehand and the American immigrants from around the turn of the century (1900~+/-50yrs) is less broad in some respects when compared to those coming in from the middle East and the average American today. The reason we are not seeing quite the same level of overt animosity is the culture, laws , institutions and times etc. have changed. On the other side communication,trade, commerce ,travel etc. being what it is today, has brought the world closer together making for closer ties even with the great differences. Countries or regions that were once relatively isolated have greater access to outside ideas and are quite influenced by the west. These interesting play of ideas and perspectives helped me determine that I am for immigration from all parts of the world; If done responsibly and with care. Sad to say both sides are to charged politically to get it done properly.
Q
TMCTLT Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
I grew up in a VERY diverse neighborhood in Sag. MI. where virtually every race and ethnicity was represented....there were NO enclaves of just one race or ethnicity. And these people did not / were not allowed in unless they could prove that they could support themselves and their families if they had one. We now seem willing to let ANYONE from ANYWHERE in without knowing who they are, if they're capable of supporting themselves so as NOT to become dependent on society for their day to day needs. Our nations original migration laws and plans worked great....and I'm a fan of " if it isn't broke....why fix it "

Migrants to this country used to understand that THEY were the ones looking for a better life HERE and were willing to assimilate....that does not necessarily seem to be the case any longer in many instances. Thus we have enclaves of foreigners who have changed NOTHING....other than their address.
qmech Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
TMCTLT
I do believe we often get one voice from established media; who have their own agendas. The PC crowd bends backwards to appease many who violate their own code to the point of absurdity. Still I am not an ideologue and view both charged sides with skepticism. In the end I believe only a nation of laws that are properly reinforced can survive. At the same time the strong rhetoric of those who fear immigration; Central American, muslims etc. is not my fight either. For one I thought the proposed Bush program for guest worker cards was an interesting partial solution (with a few tweaks) and it was hammered by right and left ideologues fearing this and that.
Q
qmech Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
TMCTLT,
I alluded to what you are saying earlier. It was sink or swim before... Yes the welfare state etc. Multiculturalism, PC etc. have greatly influenced the behavior you describe. One of the problems of the left is their "good intentions" often do not weigh cost to benefit properly..
Q
qmech Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
Ideologues seek their own perfections... I for one do not believe humans or our culture are
perfectable.. no Star Trek delusions here.
Q
TMCTLT Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733

We seem to be very much on the same page my good man Beer ....if only those we elect and those in the media weren't so interested in their own agendas...d'oh!
qmech Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
Here here
Q
qmech Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
At least I think so...one never knows.

See I am a bit of a Skeptic 😁😁😁😁without going overboard but even here I am skeptical!!😁😁😁😁
Best
Q
frankj1 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
so what does it take to get in?
MACS Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
frankj1 wrote:
so what does it take to get in?


IMO: Do so legally. Support yourself. Follow our laws.

An immigrant, having contributed nothing to the tax base, is entitled to absolutely no tax based assistance until they have contributed to it, and become a citizen. If non-gov't funded charities wish to assist them, great.

CITIZENS needing assistance for college should receive it BEFORE an immigrant.

I think that is 100% fair.
frankj1 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
MACS wrote:
IMO: Do so legally. Support yourself. Follow our laws.

An immigrant, having contributed nothing to the tax base, is entitled to absolutely no tax based assistance until they have contributed to it, and become a citizen. If non-gov't funded charities wish to assist them, great.

CITIZENS needing assistance for college should receive it BEFORE an immigrant.

I think that is 100% fair.

i actually was asking what it takes to get in the right way. Illegal is illegal.
ZRX1200 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
My best friends wife is Philippino, they've been working on this for 3 years. He's a citizen and by law, should have no hold up. But it's also a $ game, they have thousands into the process and a friend of his works at the consultant and told him they approve 1% period. Doesn't matter how LEGAL the process should go. He's into an attorney for 3 grand, he's now refused to go back to the PI until it's resolved. The office is also staffed by Philippinos who have no clue of the law. His friendsaid on average a person will spend 10k, and it's 100k a month applying so.....
frankj1 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
it ain't easy
ZRX1200 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
Unless you're Mexican.
frankj1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I heard Drafter is Mexican
ZRX1200 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
No, he's a chubby bear from Oklahoma.

They pick up messican dudes at Home Depot.
frankj1 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I did not know that
MACS Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
My wife and I were married in 1989, while I was stationed in the Philippines, by a local Filipino judge.

We applied for an immigration visa at the US Embassy and were granted one. Don't remember the fee. Once in the US, we went to the immigration office in RI and got her green card (good for 2 years). After the 2 years, we applied for a new one (good for 10 years) and paid around $600 in fees for that.

10 years later, after she'd been here almost 12 years, she wanted to renew... it was $800 to renew or $800 to apply for citizenship and never have to renew again. So in 2003, while I was deployed to shock and awe... she was sworn in, and I didn't even get to frickin' see it.
MACS Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
Oh, and by the way...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/23/sweden-democrats-trump-was-right.html
tonygraz Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Fake news !
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