America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 69 replies replies.
2 Pages12>
RIP Obama-Care...
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Pray
DCLover Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2008
Posts: 4,229
Donald Trump wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, your premiums are going to come down

So we got that going for us....which is nice.
delta1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
careful what you wish for...healthcare was outrageous before, when the insurance companies held all the trump cards...
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Sounds like insurance companies are still holding the cards... pre-existing conditions will be covered by the taxpayers. .. but there's only about 115, 000 of them... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
looks like the ER's will be busy again, and we'll all be spending a sh*tload of cash for people who can't afford health insurance premiums, especially when they have pre-existing conditions.

Didn't Trump say he'll make sure we all have "better and cheaper health insurance" ? It must be the House GOP's fault ...
tonygraz Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Don't expect anything soon. It still has to get through the senate and the pubs might not want to own what happens if it makes it.
bs_kwaj Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214

Will this simplify my taxes?

Oh, reminds me... I need to finish that up and get it submitted.

Beer
MACS Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
Forcing an insurance company to take on a liability (pre-existing conditions) is beyond absurd.

What if you had a company, and I told you you had to hire a guy with a disability that made it impossible to do what you needed him to do? You'd be paying him for absolutely nothing.

Better analogy... telling the casinos they have to pay every 20th losing bet. Absurd.
tailgater Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
There is no right answer.

Obamacare was wrong.
Government involvement is wrong.
But insurance companies made us want the government involved.

Is there middle ground?

What about universal care just for children?
Private insurance for adults.
Government subsidized insurance when needed?

At the end of the day, I simply don't want a politician to decide what is best for my family's health.
SteveS Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
tailgater wrote:
I simply don't want a politician to decide what is best for my family's health.


Not even one as accomplished as Elizabeth Warren or Nancy Pelosi ?

What I want is to have the same sort of plan those gals have ... it's a good 'un ...
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
I simply don't want a politician to decide what is best for my family's health.

hard to argue with that.

but wouldn't you prefer a doctor over an insurance executive make the call?
health vs profit?
jjanecka Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
What I want is $3 penecillin tabs open market. I can get those in India, Russia, and probably Europe.

What drove up costs to begin with was that the FDA began mandating and deeming that common drugs were far too dangerous for the populace because a hanful of individuals abused them. You lower costs on medicine? You want lower premiums? Force the FDA into less regulation of free market good and I gaurantee costs overall will be reduced.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
What I want is $3 penecillin tabs open market. I can get those in India, Russia, and probably Europe.

What drove up costs to begin with was that the FDA began mandating and deeming that common drugs were far too dangerous for the populace because a hanful of individuals abused them. You lower costs on medicine? You want lower premiums? Force the FDA into less regulation of free market good and I gaurantee costs overall will be reduced.



kind of true, but simplistic and limited...

of course you know that when Bush forced seniors (yes, the party of less Gov't FORCED seniors) to buy prescription policies, he also denied negotiations for better pricing for drugs, right?

winners: Big Insurance and Big Pharma
losers: seniors with $xxx amount of prescriptions

Not so sure the GOP will find the way to help citizens either. Certainly not with a rushed effort at glory.
MACS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
Prescription drug prices are part of the problem...
tonygraz Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Not a problem in Germany - they are negotiated by the National Health plan.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
no negotiations allowed here.

sad.

hey! i tweeted!
ZRX1200 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Frank, you know that evil Bush who blew up the levy in New Orleans during Katrina also shortened the time a drug could be on the market before there could be a generic right?

I don't like Medicare part A, B, D none of it. But at least they've paid into it. Medicaid on the other hand......

I love the leftist morons who confuse healthcare and PAYMENT for said health care.

I think the insudtry needs revamped to have preventative and basic care handled at a much cheaper level. Then have a separate system for advanced care and surgery.

Also don't forget Al, the insurance companies WROTE Obamacare......who did you assume was going to have the leverage?

When you have massive government bureaucracy, no matter the employees purity of virtue the bureaucracy WILL be the Borg. It will only expand and protect its OWN interests.
bs_kwaj Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214

I just say 'No' to drugs.....

Beer
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:

but wouldn't you prefer a doctor over an insurance executive make the call?
health vs profit?


Doctor.
Insurance of my choosing.
Pan handler.
Road kill.
Government official.


In that order.

tailgater Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I guess I can dust this one off from 2008:

"you think health insurance is expensive now? Wait until it's free."


Hillbillyjosh770 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-09-2014
Posts: 2,999
Yall need to become better friends with yalls doctors,

10 pounds of deer jerky, and a half dozen deer sheds is what it cost me for my yearly checkup.

All BS aside,

Do you really wanna know why the Gov, even pretends to care about your health?

Why the FDA has some of the lowest food regulations?

Work job with chit pay, forced to eat chit food, forced to take chit pills.

The answers maybe be conspiracies to some.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DONT EAT YOUR MEAT?
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
Did House Members actually read the bill voting it?
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
prolly not... nobody read the first one either... Mellow
Buckwheat Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
tonygraz wrote:
Don't expect anything soon. It still has to get through the senate and the pubs might not want to own what happens if it makes it.



I think the administration has counted this chicken before it hatched. I think the senate has it's work cut out on this one. fog
DrMaddVibe Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Buckwheat wrote:
I think the administration has counted this chicken before it hatched. I think the senate has it's work cut out on this one. fog


I agree. Shudda just let it implode on it's own weight.

Now, they own it. Better do something like actually READ THE BILL first before passing it to see what's inside it.

While I want there to be a positive outcome, we're talking about the Federal government here. Add the Legislative Branch that works only something like 3 months a year and it's a recipe for disaster.
delta1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
If the Senate passes anything close to the House plan and it is implemented, a lot of poor and old people who have been sick or have any sort of medical condition won't have health insurance. The "high risk" pool for those with previous conditions will be vastly underfunded, even with the $8 Billion sweetener thrown in to entice moderates to vote for this. For Americans who don't have employer provided health insurance, who have to buy individual health insurance policies, getting sick will mean bankruptcy...

The big GET for the GOP was the repeal of the Obamacare subsidy for Medicaid that was paid for by tax surcharges on the wealthiest of Americans. That group of two percenters and the health insurance industry were the real winners of the day....a very good day for the the least needy among us...

Even President Trump said that the single payer system in Canada and Australia is better than this plan...
dstieger Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
delta1, I still struggle with the (more and more commonly accepted) concept that quality health care is a right. Or, that everyone is 'entitled' to the 'highest quality' care.

For any other kinds of insurance, higher risk, means higher cost. I don't grasp why that is a problem in health insurance. For that matter, why is 'pre-condition' some sort of third rail. Seems to me that someone with a known condition ought to face higher insurance costs...higher risk/higher cost.

Seems rather fundamental to the whole concept of 'insurance'.
Stinkdyr Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
jjanecka wrote:
What I want is $3 penecillin tabs open market. I can get those in India, Russia, and probably Europe.

What drove up costs to begin with was that the FDA began mandating and deeming that common drugs were far too dangerous for the populace because a hanful of individuals abused them. You lower costs on medicine? You want lower premiums? Force the FDA into less regulation of free market good and I gaurantee costs overall will be reduced.



There is nothing wrong with the health care industry that the FREE MARKET would not fix in a nano-second, if only our corrupt gubment and our ignorant voter base would embrace FREEDOM....but that is too much to ask, I know.

fog
Stinkdyr Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
dstieger wrote:
delta1, I still struggle with the (more and more commonly accepted) concept that quality health care is a right. Or, that everyone is 'entitled' to the 'highest quality' care.

For any other kinds of insurance, higher risk, means higher cost. I don't grasp why that is a problem in health insurance. For that matter, why is 'pre-condition' some sort of third rail. Seems to me that someone with a known condition ought to face higher insurance costs...higher risk/higher cost.

Seems rather fundamental to the whole concept of 'insurance'.



There is nothing wrong with the health care industry that the FREE MARKET would not fix in a nano-second, if only our corrupt gubment and our ignorant voter base would embrace FREEDOM....but that is too much to ask, I know.

fog
tripleguy Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-15-2011
Posts: 62
dstieger wrote:
delta1, I still struggle with the (more and more commonly accepted) concept that quality health care is a right. Or, that everyone is 'entitled' to the 'highest quality' care.

For any other kinds of insurance, higher risk, means higher cost. I don't grasp why that is a problem in health insurance. For that matter, why is 'pre-condition' some sort of third rail. Seems to me that someone with a known condition ought to face higher insurance costs...higher risk/higher cost.

Seems rather fundamental to the whole concept of 'insurance'.


So only the wealthy get quality health care? Ensures fitness of the gene pool. I'd be all for that and eliminating pre existing conditions if we ensure easy access to abortion, allow assisted suicide, set limits on care for premature birth conditions and birth defects, etc. Can I be on the panel that decides this stuff? Thumbs up or down! Turn it into a reality show - self funding.
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
or we can adopt the gladiator model...sick and poor people who can't afford health insurance and medical care have a choice to die in the streets or climb into an arena and fight to the death (no firearms - they might kill somebody important)...the survivor gets free life-time health insurance for him/herself and family...he/she can then make a lot of money by successfully defending the title by winning the next competitions...or just take the medical insurance...

This is an example of "work for health insurance" that combines America's need for entertainment, athletic events and blood-letting...sponsored by Aetna, Blue Cross and United Healthcare...
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Let's do it..!! Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
a lot of the angry rustbelt voters that helped sweep Trump into office are going to get crushed by this...

I have a feeling the Senate may keep several provisions though.
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
That's what Pelosi wants you to think. .. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
That's what Pelosi wants you to think. .. Mellow

don't know the guy
tailgater Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
a lot of the angry rustbelt voters that helped sweep Trump into office are going to get crushed by this...

I have a feeling the Senate may keep several provisions though.


My man, since the election we've been hearing about how Trump's voters are going to rue the day.
Higher taxes. Fewer services. No healthcare coverage.
Heck, they won't even get the 72 virgins promised by Obama.

Time to lose that threat and step into reality.
Hospitals won't be unplugging patients and costs aren't going to triple.

frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
My man, since the election we've been hearing about how Trump's voters are going to rue the day.
Higher taxes. Fewer services. No healthcare coverage.
Heck, they won't even get the 72 virgins promised by Obama.

Time to lose that threat and step into reality.
Hospitals won't be unplugging patients and costs aren't going to triple.


specifically the angry, under employed, unemployed, never-were-in-the-recovery rustbelt-ish voters who bought into the Reality TV show...not all of Trump's voters, but these poor shlubs...they are goners, and it is sad.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I heard Pelosi and others saying this stuff. . It's just not true... they are trying to scare you... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I honestly never hear nor read anything from Pelosi.

Tell me how the people I am singling out will benefit.
tailgater Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
specifically the angry, under employed, unemployed, never-were-in-the-recovery rustbelt-ish voters who bought into the Reality TV show...not all of Trump's voters, but these poor shlubs...they are goners, and it is sad.


Oh those.
They're expendable.

tailgater Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I honestly never hear nor read anything from Pelosi.

Tell me how the people I am singling out will benefit.


Yeah, Drafter.
Why'd you say that the poor bastids in the rustbelt will benefit?

delta1 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
I saw an interview with the CEO of Blue Shield, a CA based non-profit health insurance provider, and even he said the House AHCA bill sent to the Senate was worse than Obamacare and will not provide adequate or affordable healthcare for most Americans, especially those with pre-existing conditions, and given the definition of "pre-existing condition", would include most people...

I'm sure the GOP was unhappy when Trump said that we need a great health care system. Like Australia's....

It is universal, govt managed, and publicly funded by a 2% tax on all citizens above a minimum income level, plus a 1% tax for wealthy people who don't have private insurance. There is a "private for-profit" health insurance component that is well-regulated to keep premiums down, and which has a govt. run enterprise to promote competition in that marketplace...
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Well, the people on fox news said Pelosi was full of chit... and they are fair and balanced.... Mellow
SteveS Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
DrafterX wrote:
Well, the people on fox news said Pelosi was full of chit... and they are fair and balanced...


Well, I don't watch fox news and am not so sure about that fair and balanced thing, but I know for an absolute fact that Nancy Pelosi is crammed full of chit ... it absolutely oozes from her pores ... despicable woman
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
She must smell somethin awful... Not talking
elRopo Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-17-2014
Posts: 905
BARF!
tailgater Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
I saw an interview with the CEO of Blue Shield, a CA based non-profit health insurance provider, and even he said the House AHCA bill sent to the Senate was worse than Obamacare and will not provide adequate or affordable healthcare for most Americans, especially those with pre-existing conditions, and given the definition of "pre-existing condition", would include most people...

I'm sure the GOP was unhappy when Trump said that we need a great health care system. Like Australia's....

It is universal, govt managed, and publicly funded by a 2% tax on all citizens above a minimum income level, plus a 1% tax for wealthy people who don't have private insurance. There is a "private for-profit" health insurance component that is well-regulated to keep premiums down, and which has a govt. run enterprise to promote competition in that marketplace...


No wonder Australia is famous for their health care...

Remember: Coverage doesn't equate to care.

My neighbors are from England. The health coverage is government funded. When her dad passed away from cancer she was made aware of how terrible their CARE is, even if their coverage was exceptional. He was a military lifer and had the premium package.
Now her mum is looking to move here because she recognizes how woeful the English government is at playing nurse and insurance man.

But never mind this.
It's purely anecdotal.



SteveS Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
tailgater wrote:
No wonder Australia is famous for their health care...

Remember: Coverage doesn't equate to care.

My neighbors are from England. The health coverage is government funded. When her dad passed away from cancer she was made aware of how terrible their CARE is, even if their coverage was exceptional. He was a military lifer and had the premium package.
Now her mum is looking to move here because she recognizes how woeful the English government is at playing nurse and insurance man.

But never mind this.
It's purely anecdotal.


Remember, the government NEVER does anything well ... to the extent that government is involved, whatever the program is will decline in quality ... getting the gov't completely out of the picture is the pathway to improvement ...
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
My disdain for Pelosi runs deep... besides her being more crooked than Hillary, several years ago I had the honor of being at our nations Capital Building to respect the Native American Code Talkers. .. she refered to them as Code Takers... she was just there for a photo-op... didn't give a chit... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
DrafterX wrote:
My disdain for Pelosi runs deep... besides her being more crooked than Hillary, several years ago I had the honor of being at our nations Capital Building to respect the Native American Code Talkers. .. she refered to them as Code Takers... she was just there for a photo-op... didn't give a chit... Mellow



She is a real oxygen thief, if I were given the opportunity to meet her.....it wouldn't be pretty. fog
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>