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Imagine in May of 2009
tailgater Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
Both crossed lines in despicable ways, using words or props to illustrate an idea....but that is where the analogy ends...

One tried to be apologetic but stepped on herself...and will not retrieve whatever stature she had before...

...the other was unapologetic and tried to take the intellectual superiority highroad by saying he was just speaking in a metaphor...he gained stature among his admirers...

...so tell me again...who is lecturing whom about moral superiority...


Uhmm,
Since I stated that nobody was morally superior, my guess would be C: none of the above.

Try to keep up.

tailgater Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
President Trump.

The instant one side chose to elect that moron they lost any and all ability to claim any amount of "personal responsibility"... or any moral high ground.... or any "but the other side would be worse!" claims... or any possible claim to a shred of intelligence.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.


Moral high ground.
There's that theme again.

I don't know how much clearer (more clear?) I can be.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
One doesn't need to love Hillary to be able to recognize the colossal mess we have right now.... yet the leader of the "party of responsibility " (hah!) Takes no responsibility for any of his actions.


Did you think we could just silently back out of the age-of-apologies?

True, Trump rides his twitter machine fast and furious. It's cringe-worthy, but nothing that requires a shared responsibility.

And what "mess" do we really have?

We have an angry media and an outraged liberal base that are berating and guilting the progressives to agree with them about Trump. And too many are acquiescing. Which shouldn't be a surprise after the last 8 years.

Perception is an important component to politics. But you and I disagree on HOW important.
Obama was all about perception. Trump lacks the desire to care one iota about it.
We need to be in the middle.

tailgater Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
It's good to have victor back.
But a bit disappointing that he hasn't come up with a better rebuttal than "Oh yeah? Well...Trump!"

MSNBC has done their job.

Speyside Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Ok, I like your line about guilting progressives into agreeing. Unfortunately I do not see that happening, so enlighten me. I see a lot of accusations, but that certainly has no ramifications on what I think.
tailgater Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Ok, I like your line about guilting progressives into agreeing. Unfortunately I do not see that happening, so enlighten me. I see a lot of accusations, but that certainly has no ramifications on what I think.


I'm sure geography plays a role.

There are people I know who I literally can't talk politics anymore. Not since the election. If I say anything that isn't anti-Trump (forget about Pro Trump) then I've been accused of being a bully.

It's similar to Global Warming.

You have to give them a nod before you say anything counter to their belief.
Otherwise they don't even try to listen.

I do it here.
You can't say anything that paints Trump in a good light unless you temper it for the libs and progressives. You have to start with "I hate his twitter rants" before you say that you think a temporary travel ban to allow proper vetting is a good idea.

With the climate, you have to say "OK, the climate is changing and man is part of the problem" before you explain that our very existence has as much influence as our fossil fuels and we shouldn't keep fooling ourselves by swapping carbon credits in the name of our children's environment.

Progressives eat that sh1t up.
Herfing

teedubbya Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea most folks aren't as centered as you.
DrafterX Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Think

Man that Trump guy is sure messing up the climate.... but that wall sure is a good idea... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
I'm sure geography plays a role.

There are people I know who I literally can't talk politics anymore. Not since the election. If I say anything that isn't anti-Trump (forget about Pro Trump) then I've been accused of being a bully.

It's similar to Global Warming.

You have to give them a nod before you say anything counter to their belief.
Otherwise they don't even try to listen.

I do it here.
You can't say anything that paints Trump in a good light unless you temper it for the libs and progressives. You have to start with "I hate his twitter rants" before you say that you think a temporary travel ban to allow proper vetting is a good idea.

With the climate, you have to say "OK, the climate is changing and man is part of the problem" before you explain that our very existence has as much influence as our fossil fuels and we shouldn't keep fooling ourselves by swapping carbon credits in the name of our children's environment.

Progressives eat that sh1t up.
Herfing


you need new friends.
tailgater Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
Yea most folks aren't as centered as you.


I don't like to brag, but your fence post has nothing on me.

It's not a matter of being centered. I'm conservative. Didn't mean to confuse you.
But it wasn't me nor other conservatives who need a serenity room when they lose an election.


tailgater Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
you need new friends.


plural?


delta1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
tailgater wrote:
Remove the "Republican/Democrat" portion.
It's not a condemnation, merely the stereotype that proves the rule.

Neither side can lay claim to a superior morality.
But one side embraces personal responsibility while the other side excuses it away.

The Nugent/Griffin analogy is merely one example.
Ted never played victim when called to task for his poor judgement.

Besides, if you're gonna embrace my description of that blistering puss-bucket, you have to embrace the whole post. This isn't ala cart at the dim sum.




tailgater wrote:
Uhmm,
Since I stated that nobody was morally superior, my guess would be C: none of the above.

Try to keep up.




personal responsibility, owning up to a misdeed, is a valued behavior among religious, political and other social constructs, and is a characteristic of morality...your view that since Nugent didn't play victim, he is superior in some way to Griffin...

Yet Nugent excused his behavior by calling it a "metaphor" attempting to differentiate his own despicable behavior from Griffin's...

Try to be consistent...
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
He explained that the Secret Service was called to investigate him after he spoke at the NRA convention in April 2012.

"We need to ride onto that battlefield and chop their heads off in November," Nugent said at the convention, referring to the election.

"They concluded, absolutely conclusively, I did not threaten anybody's life," Nugent said. "Yet Kathy Griffin and the whole left ... just repeats the lie that I threatened the president's life. Never happened."

Eboni Williams pointed out that Nugent also made incendiary comments about then-Democratic presidential candidates Obama and Clinton while holding two machine guns during a 2007 onstage appearance.

"Obama, he's a piece of s***. I told him to suck on my machine gun," Nugent said. "Hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b****."

Nugent acknowledged that he made an "outrageous metaphor" to attack the candidates' gun control policies, but he nonetheless never threatened anyone's life.

"It's good to see that everyone is condemning Kathy Griffin's action, because it is nasty," Nugent said. "This is a world of terrorism, where beheading is a reality. ... She actually referenced that to the president of the United States."

He said likening his comments to Griffin's photo is like comparing "apples and grenades."

"I did nothing to harm anyone. She came out with symbolism that was truly vile," Nugent said. "This kind of conduct is absolutely reprehensible and unacceptable."



Think
Speyside Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Well, if Ted said then it must be true. He's so level headed , mainstream, and such. Though he is right about what's her name.
dstieger Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Griffin was clearly way over the edge...nobody with any sense offers a reasonable defense....but, I was sorta taken aback watching Eric Trump last night. I had a fair amount of respect for him and generally liked him in the past....but he seemed awfully whiny ....Your dad's the fn president...there's gonna be spotlights, slams, death threats, jokes, etc....shut your mouth, rub some dirt on it and suck it up, ****
tailgater Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
personal responsibility, owning up to a misdeed, is a valued behavior among religious, political and other social constructs, and is a characteristic of morality...your view that since Nugent didn't play victim, he is superior in some way to Griffin...

Yet Nugent excused his behavior by calling it a "metaphor" attempting to differentiate his own despicable behavior from Griffin's...

Try to be consistent...


I didn't equate being responsible to being morally superior.

A murderer can accept responsibility. The two things are separate.

But to your point, Nugent is absolutely superior to that come bucket. You may disagree with him, but he has conviction and pride and (yes) responsibility. That yeast incubator is none of those things.
tailgater Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
Griffin was clearly way over the edge...nobody with any sense offers a reasonable defense....but, I was sorta taken aback watching Eric Trump last night. I had a fair amount of respect for him and generally liked him in the past....but he seemed awfully whiny ....Your dad's the fn president...there's gonna be spotlights, slams, death threats, jokes, etc....shut your mouth, rub some dirt on it and suck it up, ****


I didn't see him, but if he whined then I agree 100%.
You're in the big leagues now. You're gonna get your skirt dirty. Deal with it.
tailgater Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Well, if Ted said then it must be true. He's so level headed , mainstream, and such. Though he is right about what's her name.


Ted is a brash, opinionated partisan blowhard.

He's entertaining.

He's an instigator.

And he is absolutely right about that corrosive canal.
frankj1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
you are churning out metaphorical phrases at a break-neck pace.
victor809 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I always question the motivation and intelligence of anyone who chooses to boil down an entire female person to her sexual organs whenever he disagree with her.

(Caveat, if the same person is documented regularly boiling males down to insulting p3nis references... then that's just their thing)

If your go-to thought when you want to insult a female is to immediately go after, and wholly represent them as, their sexual organs and imply malfunction and or malformation of said organs... that strongly implies that the only value you see a woman having is in her sex organs. Additionally it suggests you don't value intelligence or other traits which you choose not to insult. (Ie you insult that which you value. If I call you an idiot it is because I value intelligence. If I call you limp deeked it's because I value virility, if i call you an ivory tower intellectual as an insult it's because I value being uninformed, if i call you a SJW as an insult it's because I value insulting and mocking people for differences)....

TL/DR... maybe some people should reread their insults of Griffin and rethink what that says about them.
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
what..?? Because she's acts like a dumbass I have to evaluate myself for thinking so..?? Huh
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
maybe we should wonder why anyone would defend someone's portrayal of beheading the President for the world to see... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
the more I think about this there is no comparison to Nugent.. Nugent said somethin stupid.. he didn't plan it.. he didn't discuss the ramifications it may have on his career and do it anyway.. and he sure as hell didn't cry about being bullied over it... Not talking
victor809 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Reread my statement drafter. Nothing you have said relates to it.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Butthole...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I meant to say "crooked butthole"...
victor809 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
A man having a nice linear butthole is apparently important to opel...

I would have emphasized the angularity a little less... but then again I've been told my deek has a wicked left hook.
MACS Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,770
It's crooked Victor... you been screwin' around corners?

(ode to Porky's)
victor809 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Only left turn corners...

Honestly I had no idea... till a girl who'd been sent to have sex with me and report back included it in the report...

But hey... it looks good to me.
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Freak... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
do you **** your head to view it?
Cuz that might make a difference.
frankj1 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
****=coque
victor809 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... certainly gives new meaning to the term.
frankj1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
yup.
it came to me in a dream.
ZRX1200 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
I'm so glad you never did tat to Sarah Palin Victor....
victor809 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
How do you know I didn't? I've slept with plenty of idiots... she may have been one of them.
tailgater Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I always question the motivation and intelligence of anyone who chooses to boil down an entire female person to her sexual organs whenever he disagree with her.

(Caveat, if the same person is documented regularly boiling males down to insulting p3nis references... then that's just their thing)

If your go-to thought when you want to insult a female is to immediately go after, and wholly represent them as, their sexual organs and imply malfunction and or malformation of said organs... that strongly implies that the only value you see a woman having is in her sex organs. Additionally it suggests you don't value intelligence or other traits which you choose not to insult. (Ie you insult that which you value. If I call you an idiot it is because I value intelligence. If I call you limp deeked it's because I value virility, if i call you an ivory tower intellectual as an insult it's because I value being uninformed, if i call you a SJW as an insult it's because I value insulting and mocking people for differences)....

TL/DR... maybe some people should reread their insults of Griffin and rethink what that says about them.


Lighten up, Francis.

tailgater Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
if i call you a SJW as an insult it's because I value insulting and mocking people for differences)....



This doesn't make any sense.
I find SJW's unbearable not because of "differences", but because of their false sense of PC self importance. They're a group of powder puffs who flex their internet platform to make a point that they likely don't have strong conviction for.
Disdain for that group isn't about "differences".

And don't take this the wrong way. I agree with much of what you said elsewhere in your post. But sometimes insults are just for humor. If I had the misfortune of being in close proximity with Ms. Griffin, I would not choose to berate her like that. Perhaps on her fopar extraordinaire, and her lack of fortitude when called to task. But not for her lack of a Y chromosome.

With that said, I saw a meme showing Cher and the deformed boy from Mask. It was titled "Cher consoles Kathy Griffin".
I'm giggling now just thinking about it.


victor809 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You can dislike self importance or keyboard tough guys all you want. But the usee of the term "SJW" as an insult literally means you find the idea of someone fighting for social justice as a negative. This isn't a debate. People use the term, unchanged, as an insult. This means they find it insulting in the same way I find the word "idiot" or "ignorant" insulting.

One can pretend it's talking about a specific type of person... but they could have chosen a different term to insult that specific group with. The choice of words is meaningful.

But you can go on being defensive about it. I don't care. I'm just stating I judge people based on their choice of words. I'm not telling you to stop using whatever words you want.
tailgater Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
You can dislike self importance or keyboard tough guys all you want. But the usee of the term "SJW" as an insult literally means you find the idea of someone fighting for social justice as a negative. This isn't a debate. People use the term, unchanged, as an insult. This means they find it insulting in the same way I find the word "idiot" or "ignorant" insulting.

One can pretend it's talking about a specific type of person... but they could have chosen a different term to insult that specific group with. The choice of words is meaningful.

But you can go on being defensive about it. I don't care. I'm just stating I judge people based on their choice of words. I'm not telling you to stop using whatever words you want.


LOL!
Somebody's wearing the size-too-small panties today.

As I said, an insult most always implies "differences". Your posts seem to indicate that you don't know what SJW even means. Which would lead one to believe that you are akin to being the idiot you so loathe.

In other words: welcome to the club.



victor809 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... tail.

You are correct. An insult implies differences. Otherwise you're just insulting yourself. SJW is a term. While you may believe it has some meaning other than the 3 words it's composed of, there was a first time that it was used in which it contained no additional connotation other than the 3 words it was composed of. Someone may claim they are using it as an insult based on the additional "unspoken" connotations around the term however to do so ignores the blatant fact that at the origin it was based on the idea that fighting for social justice is an insult.

To put it simply. All the words exist in the English language to insult someone for being phoney or pretentious or a blowhard etc. Everything people want to claim they are trying to say when they use SJW as an insult can be done using English and not resorting to that phrase. That can only mean that there is something additional they find insulting about that term. I dunno... maybe it's the social justice part... eh?

I don't even know or care if you use that term as an insult tail. I was just using it as an example. And my panties aren't in a bunch like you want to imply. I simply pointed out that the types of terms an individual uses as an insult says a lot about that individual. That's the same with anything in life... don't try to justify yourself, take a little personal responsibility and own up to whatever you're trying to say rather than trying to justify these terms as really meaning something else. Jeez... party of personal responsibility my well formed azz.

opelmanta1900 Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
What's the actual difference between having your panties in a bunch and wearing a thong? Underwear is so weird...
victor809 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dubno... never worn panties.
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
... tail.

You are correct. An insult implies differences. Otherwise you're just insulting yourself. SJW is a term. While you may believe it has some meaning other than the 3 words it's composed of, there was a first time that it was used in which it contained no additional connotation other than the 3 words it was composed of. Someone may claim they are using it as an insult based on the additional "unspoken" connotations around the term however to do so ignores the blatant fact that at the origin it was based on the idea that fighting for social justice is an insult.

To put it simply. All the words exist in the English language to insult someone for being phoney or pretentious or a blowhard etc. Everything people want to claim they are trying to say when they use SJW as an insult can be done using English and not resorting to that phrase. That can only mean that there is something additional they find insulting about that term. I dunno... maybe it's the social justice part... eh?

I don't even know or care if you use that term as an insult tail. I was just using it as an example. And my panties aren't in a bunch like you want to imply. I simply pointed out that the types of terms an individual uses as an insult says a lot about that individual. That's the same with anything in life... don't try to justify yourself, take a little personal responsibility and own up to whatever you're trying to say rather than trying to justify these terms as really meaning something else. Jeez... party of personal responsibility my well formed azz.



And this, boys and girls, is why quaaludes should never be abused.

But I'll play your game.
Words mean something.
So why are you talking about your panties being in a bunch? I never said that. You must mean something by it. And yet you later claim you've never worn panties. So which is it? They're not in a bunch or you've never worn them?

Words mean something. I agree. But the thing to remember is that they MEAN what the author intended. If it's not projected clearly, shame on the author. If it's not received correctly, shame on the recipient. When it's in the middle, well then, we have a conversation, discussion or debate.

Or you can just choose to be robotic and literal. To somehow make your (very weak) point.





tailgater Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
And for the record, I do use the term SJW as an insult.

I find the vast majority of SJW's to lack conviction and fortitude. They "attack" merely because of a difference in opinion and realize it's easy and lazy to do so over social media.

It's like the union up the street from me at work.
On sunny days there are dozens holding signs and preventing trucks from delivering.
On the recent cold and rainy days, I've seen as few as 1.

No conviction.
Zero credibility.
victor809 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You're the one who started in on "size too small panties"... I assumed that was a version of the "panties in a bunch " term. If there's some other reference... illuminate me.

Of course my second statement was a joking reference to opels question about panties vs thong. I was stating of the two I had never worn one so I could not compare. I don't see how you are unable to understand that....

Sure. On the most basic level words mean what an author says. That's why they said them. But guess what. People lie. They lie to each other and they lie to themselves. And while someone may say that they're only calling every woman they disagree with a malfunctioning sexual organs of some sort... while calling men they disagree with by more basic insults (idiots... whatever)... then one really has to as why they choose those words beyond anything they may say ("oh I just say that because I don't like their policy!")

Same thing with something like SJW. You could choose to call them keyboard warriors who lack conviction and fortitude. You choose a different term. You choose a term which implies that fighting for social justice is a "difference" from any stance you value.

Sure... you can then say "oh but fighting for social justice is important to me when they have conviction and fortitude I am not talking about people who do important work for human rights of individuals who are truly in need " or something lame like that... but you dont... you leave the term SJW there...

victor809 Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And actually... I'm gonna call b.s. on your statement "they mean what the author intended". That's simply not correct.

The point of communication is to get information from the speaker/author to the listener/ reader. Both parties are under a reasonable expectation that the words they use have a common meaning. You may have personally decided that the term "kike" means "attractive and intelligent man with an enormous p3nis" but Frank may not take it that way.

And the idea that the author is the sole arbiter is laughable. You can use whatever term you want wherever. But you have to learn to two personal responsibility for the words you use. People will always judge you based on the terms you choose to use. To think you can exempt yourself from that judgement simply because you "mean something different " when you use terms specifically chosen for their connotations (see my post above, there are other existing terms one could have chosen)... that's weak and screams of a lack of personal responsibility and maturity.
DrafterX Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Forward that to Trump.. Laugh
victor809 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tail can tell him during his weekly date.
tailgater Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
You're the one who started in on "size too small panties"... I assumed that was a version of the "panties in a bunch " term. If there's some other reference... illuminate me.

Of course my second statement was a joking reference to opels question about panties vs thong. I was stating of the two I had never worn one so I could not compare. I don't see how you are unable to understand that....

Sure. On the most basic level words mean what an author says. That's why they said them. But guess what. People lie. They lie to each other and they lie to themselves. And while someone may say that they're only calling every woman they disagree with a malfunctioning sexual organs of some sort... while calling men they disagree with by more basic insults (idiots... whatever)... then one really has to as why they choose those words beyond anything they may say ("oh I just say that because I don't like their policy!")

Same thing with something like SJW. You could choose to call them keyboard warriors who lack conviction and fortitude. You choose a different term. You choose a term which implies that fighting for social justice is a "difference" from any stance you value.

Sure... you can then say "oh but fighting for social justice is important to me when they have conviction and fortitude I am not talking about people who do important work for human rights of individuals who are truly in need " or something lame like that... but you dont... you leave the term SJW there...



You don't even read the crap you write. Do you?
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