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Last post 6 years ago by teedubbya. 221 replies replies.
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Rut Roh. They knew...
fiddler898 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
WASHINGTON — They knew. All along, they knew.

The inner circle of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign knew that the Russian government preferred that Trump win the 2016 election. They knew that the Russian government was prepared to help. And what’s more, Donald Trump Jr. expressed delight at the prospect.

“I love it.’’

It remains to be seen what the candidate himself knew of the potentially illegal plot — because that’s what it was — that was outlined in advance of the June 2016 meeting between Trump Jr., Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, and campaign manager Paul Manafort. But what is glaringly obvious now is that the campaign was lying — repeatedly, publicly, and emphatically denying any Russian involvement or backing of the Trump campaign — beginning at least six weeks after they took the meeting with a “Russian government attorney’’ who was said to be ready to pass along incriminating information about Hillary Clinton.

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Your afternoon shot of politics, sent straight from the desk of Joshua Miller.

And in an ironic twist for a campaign that was dominated by discussions over Clinton’s e-mails, it was all spelled out in an e-mail exchange with Donald Trump Jr.


The four pages of e-mails, which Trump Jr. released Tuesday after The New York Times revealed to him that it had copies, are the closest thing to a smoking gun in the ongoing investigations into Russian meddling in the US election. Trump’s son, his son-in-law, and his then-campaign manager were all in the loop on an e-mail that had a subject line: “Russia — Clinton — private and confidential.”

The e-mails introduce a new cast of characters into the unfolding drama, players in the worlds of entertainment and real estate who, like the Trumps, seemingly had little or no sensitivity to the ethical demands of a campaign for the presidency of the United States.

The e-mail to Trump Jr. — sent by Rob Goldstone, who had connections with Trump through the 2013 Miss Universe pageant, held in Moscow — said that a senior Russian government official wanted to pass along documents that “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.”

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” Goldstone wrote.

“If it’s what you say,” Trump Jr. responded, “I love it.”

It would be especially useful, he added, later in the summer.

Later in the summer — seven weeks after that June 3 exchange — e-mails from the Democratic National Committee were released by Wikileaks. In October, just an hour after an “Access Hollywood” tape damaging Trump’s campaign had emerged, Wikileaks began releasing e-mails from Clinton campaign manager John Podesta. The US intelligence community later concluded that Russia was behind the hacks, although President Trump has continued to express skepticism.

Trump Jr. forwarded the e-mail chain along to Kushner, his brother-in-law and current top White House adviser; and Manafort, who at the time was running the Trump campaign. That trio attended a meeting a few days later with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya.

Trump Jr. said nothing of consequence came from the meeting, and Veselnitskaya said that she was not acting on behalf of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

There is still plenty that is murky. How much did President Trump himself know about what his son, son-in-law, and then-campaign manager were doing? Did more come from the meeting than the participants — who so far have not proven to be reliably forthcoming — are letting on?

“All of these denials that we have heard in the campaign, during the transition, in the administration, that there were no contacts with Russians, no discussions about the campaign, are all patently false,” said Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Sarah Sanders, a White House spokeswoman, answered questions from reporters for just over 20 minutes Tuesday afternoon. In an unusual move, she read a statement from the president in response to an opening question about the meeting.

“My son is a high quality person and I applaud his transparency,” according to the statement she read. She then referred most additional inquiries to Donald Trump Jr.’s attorney — even though it is questions about the president’s credibility and conduct that beg for answers, and indeed, are the subject of multiple investigations.

Sanders said Donald Trump is “frustrated” that his presidency continues to be dogged by his campaign’s connections to Russia. She added that the president would prefer to talk about other issues.

Trump had no public events Tuesday. The president, who declared he represented the people of “Pittsburgh not Paris” last month as he announced withdrawal from the Paris climate accords, may first answer questions during a Thursday press conference in Paris.

The Trump Jr. e-mail chain released Tuesday creates the biggest crack in the Trump operation’s credibility thus far. It puts a more ominous cast on all of the events that followed, including Trump’s dismissal of FBI Director James Comey in May.

Despite repeated claims of “fake news” by Trump — and despite claims they knew nothing of Russian involvement in the US election — Trump’s closest advisers, his family members, had evidence to the contrary. It’s right there, in the e-mail exchange.

But just over six weeks after the meeting with the Russian attorney, when hacked DNC e-mails began to emerge on WikiLeaks, those who participated in the meeting were adamantly denying there were any ties with Russia.

“That’s absurd,” Manafort told ABC News on July 24. “There’s no basis to it.”

The same day, Trump Jr. rebuffed Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook’s claims that the DNC hacking may have been orchestrated by Russia as a plot to help Trump and hurt Clinton.

“Well, just goes to show you their exact moral compass,” he told CNN. “I mean, they’ll say anything to be able to win this. I mean, this is time and time again, lie after lie. . . . It’s disgusting; it’s so phony.”

“He should be ashamed of himself,” he continued, referring to Mook. “If a Republican did that, they’d be calling for the electric chair.”

The drumbeat of denial continued after Trump won the election.

Asked if anyone in the Trump campaign had contact with Russians trying to meddle in the election, Kellyanne Conway told “Face the Nation” in December: “Absolutely not. And I discussed that with the president-elect just last night. Those conversations never happened. I hear people saying it like it’s a fact on television. That is just not only inaccurate and false, but it’s dangerous. And—and it does undermine our democracy.”

Trump himself has repeatedly rejected the investigations into his campaign ties to Russia as “a witch hunt” and said that Democrats were using it as a political excuse for their own failings.

“Again,’’ the president tweeted on May 12, “the story that there was collusion between the Russians & Trump campaign was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election.’’


Hey, this copy & paste thing is fun!
jjanecka Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
I don't care I just didn't want hillary to win and I thinkthat's what most voters decided on.
fiddler898 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
^^ Well, if you're using real numbers to count, then most voters decided to elect her.
jjanecka Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
I go by the only real measure of this representative republic and that is the electorate. Proud to have my minority represented in this fair country.
Speyside Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So you're proud those surrounding the president you elected have lied repeatedly?
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He's honest. I respect that. The ends justify the means. He wanted Hillary beat so badly he doesn't care about ethics, law etc.

I'm good with that. The folks doing gyrations to pretend... not so much.
kombat96 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 04-12-2010
Posts: 9,717
Speyside wrote:
So you're proud those surrounding the president you elected have lied repeatedly?



That goes for all 3 sides, bud.

Speyside Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
^ That, is not an answer to my question.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
What the republicans decide to do now will decide its fate for the next decade or so.
Speyside Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
And what does a triangle have to do with this post?
teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It's a deflection thing. I don't have to assess right or wrong as long as I can point at the other side and say look what they did. It allows me to justify anything.
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Hillary's string of lies means she should be locked up

Lock her up lock her up

Trump and families string of lies mean - look at Hillary and all her lies
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,576
http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/10/everybody-is-forgetting-that-clinton-allies-did-the-same-thing-as-don-jr/

No it means one side is held accountable in a media sense. Love the outrage though teedubya. And at least Hilldog GOT opposition research and info from a government agent.

D Jr got nothing from a woman who was never a Russian agent (her words).

The meeting was stupid. But much like all the S-Storm we see on a daily basis the seriousness of the unsubstantiated charge is what counts. Keep that fence post warm birther-hater.
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Put Hillary in jail. Don't care. Hate her.

But the need to accept every trump family lie and justify everything is interesting. One does not justify the other. Period. Yea but Hillary .....

Both wrong. Trump's possibly with a hostile country and its intel community. I'd be ashamed of justifying either.

And more will come.

I do hate the birthers. They are and were absurd/stupid. Anyone who ever believed any of that let alone promoted it likely has an extra chromosome. But to me that would put me firmly on one side rather than on the post.
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
the circle of those surrounding Trump who are indebted to Russia and Ukrainian supporters of Russia will be larger than anyone could have imagined.
I've been saying for months that the money trail leading to influence at the top will be the final story...not election tampering.

anyone mentioning Hill and/or Bill is avoiding what is methodically unfolding here. Forget the nonsense of lefties dancing in the streets, this is extremely troubling for any one who loves America and has their head above the sand.
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
frankj1 wrote:
the circle of those surrounding Trump who are indebted to Russia and Ukrainian supporters of Russia will be larger than anyone could have imagined.
I've been saying for months that the money trail leading to influence at the top will be the final story...not election tampering.

anyone mentioning Hill and/or Bill is avoiding what is methodically unfolding here. Forget the nonsense of lefties dancing in the streets, this is extremely troubling for any one who loves America and has their head above the sand.



Agreed. To me it's not about Hillary or Trump winning or losing. It's sad and I take no joy in it.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And blaming the press is lame too. Yes they are biased. Absolutely. Always have been.

But that isn't a get out of jail free and ignore facts card. Trump and crew have lied and lied and lied and are playing their believers. Forget the party. He's not even a R. The republicans better wake up and show some spine. This isn't just a game.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,386
teedubbya wrote:
Put Hillary in jail. Don't care. Hate her.

But the need to accept every trump family lie and justify everything is interesting. One does not justify the other. Period. Yea but Hillary .....

Both wrong. Trump's possibly with a hostile country and its intel community. I'd be ashamed of justifying either.

And more will come.

I do hate the birthers. They are and were absurd/stupid. Anyone who ever believed any of that let alone promoted it likely has an extra chromosome. But to me that would put me firmly on one side rather than on the post.



And where did the "birthers" come from?horse


Oh yeah...Hillary "Crooked Bitch" Clinton!!!!!Frying pan
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Doesn't matter to me. If you ever believed he wasn't born here you are an idiot. If you ever believed the birth certificate was fake I'm pretty sure you are retarded.

By you I'm not replying to anyone in specific. I mean everyone.

As for attributing it to Hillary or anyone else that's debatable but the continued diversion to justify stupidity is duly noted.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,386
teedubbya wrote:
Doesn't matter to me. If you ever believed he wasn't born here you are an idiot. If you ever believed the birth certificate was fake I'm pretty sure you are retarded.

By you I'm not replying to anyone in specific. I mean everyone.

As for attributing it to Hillary or anyone else that's debatable but the continued diversion to justify stupidity is duly noted.



I don't think anyone really cares at this point. Know what I mean? That's rhetorically so....
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
No crime here.... unlike the crimes that Lady we're not suppose to mention committed... Mellow
Buckwheat Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
No crime here.... unlike the crimes that Lady we're not suppose to mention committed... Mellow


I thought that one of the reasons that people voted for Trump was that they were sick of Washington insiders, dirty deals and lies from the Exucutive branch, etc...
But if you are fine with Business as usual in DC... Good for you. horse
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Just stating the facts... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Since the investigation is ongoing it is premature to say no crime was committed. Though I doubt anyone will be charged. It is a shame the swamp has not been drained.
Buckwheat Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Speyside wrote:
Since the investigation is ongoing it is premature to say no crime was committed. Though I doubt anyone will be charged. It is a shame the swamp has not been drained.


Yes. This was the point of my above post.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Speyside wrote:
Since the investigation is ongoing it is premature to say no crime was committed. Though I doubt anyone will be charged. It is a shame the swamp has not been drained.


never will be... I don't think you have to be corrupt to go into politics, but I think once you're in it - whether or not you know it - there's a price tag on your favor and someone will be willing to pay it...
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
What crime 'could have' been committed..?? Huh
Speyside Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
We will not know until the investigation is over. I'm not a mind reader, are you to know no crime has been commited?
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
he wasn't working for the campaign... He currently isn't working the gubment. he met with a Lady that just happens to be Russian who said she had info on Hillary. Turns out she lied. He left. Never told his Dad about the meeting.

What crime..?? Huh

It's not like he destroyed evidence or took da fifth.. Not talking
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I suspect one or more of the trump inner circle are already in criminal legal trouble. Lots of possibilities and the investigation is young. While the talking points and fantasy moved from it didn't happen to there is no proof to even if it did there is no crime thankfully that's fantasy land and reality will set in. Let's wait and see but my guess is there is womp big criminal trouble for one or more people. I'd still say not for Trump himself but who knows.

As for hill say her name drafter (just not three times in front of a mirror or she will come back). After all apparently she is your benchmark or standard for which the people you associate with or support should compare to. Not just her actions but your ugliest opinion or version of her actions substantiated or not are the highest expectation you have for those you support. It's not her name, it's the concept that you can use her and your make believe or amped up version of her as a magic wand to bless unacceptable behavior in someone else.

Good thing the expectation of personal responsibility is no longer there. But so and so did it.....

It's not a game. No one is winning.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter I don't think jr is in legal trouble at this point. Kushner perhapse.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think the campaign finance laws may be in play here too but knowing what we know that's a stretch. But it's still on the table and there is much we don't know. And.....if we keep following into who knew what when there could be big issues for others including Don sr.

The admin lies directly until their lies are proven false. My guess is there is much more here including at the meeting itself. The meeting could be the tip of the iceberg.

DrMaddVibe Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,386
With the taxpayer footing the bill....
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I understand completely and believe Trump's team should be responsible for their own actions. but man it's tough sometimes to see the same people that excused Hillary's crimes and lies jump all over this stuff... perhaps this is their revenge.. I dunno.. but facts is facts... they can be twisted but then they're not facts anymore... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Remember there was no collusion until there was. I've not said before that I thought there was collusion. I honestly doubted there was based on full throated denials. Now we know there was or at least there was intent. Collusion in and of itself is not a crime. But don't mistake that for being no crime. We shall see. Keep hanging your hat on this turd bag until the bitter end if you like. The lies alone are enough for me.
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter you are doing what you accuse them of.
teedubbya Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As for the taxpayers footing the bill your Idol Trump could make that necessity go away immediately by being honest and transparent rather than calling things fake news until it's proven it isn't and he knew that all along. Placing blame in the wrong area. He can't be honest though. He's always been a con man. Folks desperation convinced themselves he's something he frankly has never been.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
teedubbya wrote:
Drafter you are doing what you accuse them of.



I'm just asking for proof... and not ignoring it when it's there... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The fact that kushner, manafort and jr met with someone portrayed as an agent of Putin to get the support of Russia and their intel in their election efforts is astonishing. The flat out lies about it since are astonishing. The thought of trump not knowing is doubtful. The number of people thinking what we know so far is not an issue is interesting but not surprising given the willingness to accept anything negative about Hillary due to their hatred (true or false) and reject anything negative about trump and demand proof to the nth degree. I think much of that proof will come.
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter you are so sure of all the crimes against Hillary. You do not hold trumps crew to that same standard.

I keep hitting the birther thing because of the number of complete idiots that bought in to that when there are no facts. We still need the facts on the Russia issue but read those emails from yesterday. Not anyone's take on them but read the emails. Are you really ok with that? I'm not. Legally or otherwise.
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And those emails are straight from the horses ass. Not fake news which is being used as a call to ignore the facts. It's right in front of you.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I'm baiting a little but you're messing it up... I was being very specific regarding Jr's actions...
But ya, if there had been something there they prolly would have run with it... Are you sure they thought she worked for Putin..?? Kinda hard to prove what they may have thought.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It is possible there was something there and they did run with it. They've lied about everything else and he did say they would use it latter in the summer. Look at the events on a timeline and what happened a couple weeks later.

One thing trump and his clan don't deserve is taking their word on things. The series of lies this past weekend is enough to establish that.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter the email to them says she works for the Russian government. Nothing to prove. It's in black and white.

She now denies it but they took the meeting based on an email that said she did. Read the emails. Not what someone tells you to think about them.

To me it's pretty clear it was presented as Russian government help.
tailgater Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Let's forget about the content of the DNC emails.
Let's focus on who may have been involved with releasing the hacked emails.

Look! Something shiny!

LOL!


teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nope. Look at both. Don't choose one or the other.

teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lock Hillary up. Good riddance.
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Can't do that... There's that whole double standard thing in place.. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Where the dirt came from is not even remotely as relevant as what the dirt is.

Both are bad, sure.
Just like J-walking and DUI are both breaking a law.

victor809 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If you ask Trump the important question is who the leaker is not whether they're leaking important information about his relationship with Russia.
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