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Obama's Transgenders kicked out...
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders staunchly defended President Trump’s decision Wednesday to ban transgender people from serving in the military in "any capacity," a move that touched off a firestorm in Washington and beyond.

“This decision was made after extensive discussions with the national security team and it was in the military’s best interest to end this Obama policy,” Sanders said. “... This is a very expensive and disruptive policy and based on consultation with his national security team, it erodes military readiness and unit cohesion, and he made the decision based on that.”

The decision effectively reversed one made at the end of the Obama administration. Transgender service members had been able to serve openly in the military since last year, when former Defense Secretary Ash Carter ended the prior ban. But Carter also gave the services until July 1 to develop policies to allow people already identifying as transgender to newly join the military, if they meet physical, medical and other standards.

“The decision is based on a military decision—not meant to be anything more than that—obviously this is a very difficult decision. It’s not a simple one, but the president feels it’s the best one for the military,” Sanders said.

Earlier this month, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said he would give military chiefs another six months to conduct a review to determine if allowing transgender individuals to enlist would affect the “readiness or lethality” of the force. The deadline for that review was Dec. 1, 2017.

“Sometimes you have to make decisions, and once [Trump] made a decision, he didn’t feel it was necessary to hold that decision,” Sanders explained, adding that Mattis was “immediately informed” of Trump's choice.

Some lawmakers including Reps. Steve King, R-Iowa, and Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., backed the president's decision, as did groups like the Family Research Council. But the move drew criticism from past secretaries of defense and lawmakers from both parties.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., slammed the announcement and said anyone fit to serve in the military should be allowed to do so.

“The president’s tweet this morning regarding transgender Americans in the military is yet another example of why major policy announcements should not be made via Twitter,” McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said.

Trump made his announcement in a series of tweets on Wednesday morning:

“After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow…Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming…victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you.”

Film at 11..... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just another diversion.
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
ya.. the stock market and jobs report are pretty scary these days... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
ya.. the stock market and jobs report are pretty scary these days... Mellow



The jobs reports are not terribly different than Obamas, but back then it was fake and stuff... but frankly I embrace both.... keep going up

The AG tweets and comments, certain folks testifying on capital hill, and health care debates are sure unique and interesting though...


I heard Amazon will be hiring thousands soon... Trump loves Amazon and should take the credit.
jjanecka Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Probably the best thing for the sailors.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,398
If you're too confused to know what bathroom to use you're not going to follow orders.


The military is for killing and destroying...it's not some grand social experiment. Get over it.

MACS Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,751
The military isn’t the place for people who are unstable, social experiments, or political correctness. People without problems have a hard enough time as it is. Allowing people who are already struggling with mental issues into a stressful war environment is stupid, and could get people killed.

And for those who will say, "Well don't send them there"... that would be unfair to everyone in the military. If you can't do 100% of the job, you don't get the job.
chazzeric Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2014
Posts: 32
Agree
bgz Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
MACS wrote:
The military isn’t the place for people who are unstable, social experiments, or political correctness. People without problems have a hard enough time as it is. Allowing people who are already struggling with mental issues into a stressful war environment is stupid, and could get people killed.

And for those who will say, "Well don't send them there"... that would be unfair to everyone in the military. If you can't do 100% of the job, you don't get the job.


Agree.

Your argument alone is sufficient enough to disallow them in the military, but I would add that I'd rather my taxes going to defense to be used on defense on not some trans genders' surgeries and/or hormone therapy.

I'm of the opinion that if you want to mutilate yourself and pump yourself full of hormones, you should pay for it yourself.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
MACS wrote:
The military isn’t the place for people who are unstable, social experiments, or political correctness. People without problems have a hard enough time as it is. Allowing people who are already struggling with mental issues into a stressful war environment is stupid, and could get people killed.

And for those who will say, "Well don't send them there"... that would be unfair to everyone in the military. If you can't do 100% of the job, you don't get the job.



And Obama thought it would be a good idea to get them all trained on the M-16 & 50 Cal's...

Thanks Obama.. Mad
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
As has been clearly stated, they should not be allowed to serve. The military isn't about being an individual. It's about team work. To say that we should accommodate shows a complete lack of understanding of what military service requires.
jjanecka Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Maybe we should make pure transgender platoons give them minimal resources and put them directly into the toughest combat areas and see what they can do? Angel
bgz Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
jjanecka wrote:
Maybe we should make pure transgender platoons give them minimal resources and put them directly into the toughest combat areas and see what they can do? Angel


Land mine detectors?
jjanecka Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
It's top secret
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That assumes they are unsure, politically correct or unable to serve. Sometime in the near future that will seem like a very naive assumption
TMCTLT Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
MACS wrote:
The military isn’t the place for people who are unstable, social experiments, or political correctness. People without problems have a hard enough time as it is. Allowing people who are already struggling with mental issues into a stressful war environment is stupid, and could get people killed.

And for those who will say, "Well don't send them there"... that would be unfair to everyone in the military. If you can't do 100% of the job, you don't get the job.



THIS is spot on!!!!


bgz wrote:
Agree.

Your argument alone is sufficient enough to disallow them in the military, but I would add that I'd rather my taxes going to defense to be used on defense on not some trans genders' surgeries and/or hormone therapy.

I'm of the opinion that if you want to mutilate yourself and pump yourself full of hormones, you should pay for it yourself.



As is THIS
Speyside Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
It's just common sense.
Buckwheat Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
MACS wrote:
The military isn’t the place for people who are unstable, social experiments, or political correctness. People without problems have a hard enough time as it is. Allowing people who are already struggling with mental issues into a stressful war environment is stupid, and could get people killed.

And for those who will say, "Well don't send them there"... that would be unfair to everyone in the military. If you can't do 100% of the job, you don't get the job.


Is being a transgender person a mental illness? And if so should the military do psychological testing on all incoming recruits?
Speyside Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You could also say they are struggling with emotional issues.
TMCTLT Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
[quote=Buckwheat]Is being a transgender person a mental illness? And if so should the military do psychological testing on all incoming recruits? [/quote]


In all seriousness, what would you call it? Just because they say they " FEEL " a certain way....or "claim to be " something other than what they clearly ARE.....is a mental issue, always has been.


Seems like the PC thing to do....I mean heck we got us a group of people who ( say out loud for all to hear ) " they refuse to acknowledge their biological sex " and demand we recognize their instabilities and just so they don't feel " picked on"......we'll do psych testing on EVERYONE. yeah....makes sense to me Liar

Oh....and if it's not tooo much to ask, will the taxpayers foot the bill for reassignment surgery. How anyone can make sense of this sh*t is beyond me!!
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
Miscellaneous Disqualifying Conditions
HIV/AIDS
Frequent motion sickness
Being an organ transplant recipient

Tumors
History of large benign tumors anywhere in the body
Auditory canal
Bone, if trauma prone
Anywhere in nervous system
Eyes
Any malignant tumor (present or removed).
Any tumor that affects duty performance ability

Skin
Chronic hives (urticaria)
Scarring, if it interferes with ability to use equipment or wear uniform
Psoriasis
Extensive, resistant fungus
Chronic, resistance eczema
Severe acne

Psychiatric
Suicidal behavior
Any history of psychosis
Anything beyond mild stuttering/stammering
Frequent and persistent sleepwalking
Frequent and/or recurring encounters with law enforcement
Personality disorders manifest by drug or alcohol addiction
Inability to adjust in work, school, or home environments
History of drug/alcohol dependence

Neurological Disorders
Tremors
Sleeping disorders
Meningitis associated head injury (within five years)
Epilepsy (after age of five)
Paralysis
Multiple sclerosis
Intellectual deficit
Embolism
Head injury resulting in unconsciousness/amnesia
Congenital malformations
Brain hemorrhage

Nasal
Chronic rhinitis (allergies)
Uncontrolled hay fever
Deviated/perforated septum

Mouth
Harelip
Mutilation
Perforated hard palate

Chest and Lungs
Acute, chronic beyond mild disease (pneumonia, bronchitis, etc.)
Asthma (any age)
Removal of any part of lung
Mastectomy (females)
Tuberculosis (within 2 years or two or more times)

Heart, Vascular Conditions
High blood pressure if requiring medication or dietary regulation
Heart disease

Head and Neck
Concussions
Depressed skull fracture/s
Loss or removal of any part of skull

Kidneys
Bed wetting
Missing a kidney
Kidney stones (within one year or occurring more than twice, or current)

Genitourinary (Females)
Congenital absence of uterus
Acute or recurring infections
Vulva, condyloma accuminatum, dystrophic conditions
Vagina, congenital abnormalities that interfere with physical activity
Painful periods
Surgery induced menopausal symptoms
Irregular, or no periods
Genitourinary (Males)
Missing both testicles
Undescended testicles
Urethritis, if chronic or acute

Eyes
Absence of lens
Lens implant
Scarred cornea
Double vision
Requirement of contact lenses
Opacity of cornea or lens
Night blindness
Glaucoma

Back and Spine
Symptomatic (healed) fractures
Ruptured disc
Recurring back pain
Infections
Scoliosis (curving of the spine), if severe
Congenital deformities
Orthopedic, extremities
Soft/softening of bones, osteoporosis
Scars, if problematic, adherent, painful
Plantar fasciitis, resistant to treatment
Weakness of or paralysis of muscles
Amputation of big toe, hand, arm, foot, leg, more than 1/3 or distal part of thumb, one joint on 2+ fingers (except little finger), two joints on index, middle, or ring fingers
Fractures of any ‘major’ bone within 6 months
Improperly healed fracture
Metal implants for fracture repair
Beyond moderate arthritis
Knee cartilage torn (unless surgically corrected more than 6 months prior)
Unstable, deranged joints
Knee ligament surgery

Endocrine/Metabolic Conditions
Most of em, other than low thyroid that’s medically controllable.

Ears and Auditory
Acute, chronic canal infection
Missing an (or both) ears
Mastoidectomy
Acute mastoiditis
Acute or chronic middle ear infections
Perforated eardrums
Hearing loss caused by eardrum scarring (+20dB loss)
Canal tumors
Smallness or closing of eardrums
Meniere’s syndrome

Dental
Braces or other ortho gear, acceptable in DEP (Delayed Entry Program) but must be removed prior to active duty.
Inability to eat ordinary food

Blood, Blood-Forming Tissue Disease
Anemia, unless correctable
Bleeding or clotting disease
Enlarged spleen
Immunodeficiency disease
Leukemia
Low white blood cell count

Allergies
Hay fever, skin allergies
Asthma, reactive airway disease, exercise induced spasms, asthmatic bronchitis (any age)
Allergic manifestations, history of life-threatening responses to stinging insects, history of moderate to severe reactions to foods, spices, or food additives.

Abdominal, Digestive Sytem
Ulcers
Tumors
Splenectomy (unless due to trauma)
Scars showing bulging or herniation, interfering with ability to perform, or causes pain
Resection of any part of digestive tract
Prolapse or stricture of rectum
Acute or chronic pancreas disease
Hernia, if present
Hepatitis within 6 months
Symptomatic hemorrhoids
Current gallstones
Fistula in anus
Cirrhosis
Abdominal surgery within two months



Think Think
gummy jones Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
they dont allow bed wetters?
guess im out Gonz
Buckwheat Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Paul, everyone knows you have a thing with the LGBT's. Your feelings on this have nothing to do with it.

But I don't believe that the medical community has clinically characterized being Transgender as a mental illness.
And NO I don't think that the government should pay for any form a reassignment surgery or therapies. horse
TMCTLT Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
Paul, everyone knows you have a thing with the LGBT's. Your feelings on this have nothing to do with it.

But I don't believe that the medical community has clinically characterized being Transgender as a mental illness.
And NO I don't think that the government should pay for any form a reassignment surgery or therapies. horse



Julian, my point is.....@ this time in our society ( knee F*n deep in political correctness ) I'm not convinced that if the findings showed without a doubt that they're mentally unfit to serve, they wouldn't be allowed to say so out loud.
And even if they could.....no one would repeat it for fear of being bigoted or somehow biased.
bgz Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Actually it is considered a mental illness.

Gender Dysphoria.

It's a similar condition to that of which people have that have their arm chopped off, or leg or what ever... they just fill they need to be different than they currently are.

People with this condition have an attempted suicide rate of over 40% percent where that suicide attempt rate goes up after they go through the gender transformation.

Think about this for a minute, do you think it's sane to want to have your arm chopped off just because it doesn't make you feel right? So why would chopping off your d1ck be any different than an arm, you want a part of your body changed.

The problem is, when they actually do get their parts swapped out, it doesn't fix their illness and they still don't feel "right". There's no going back to the default configuration at that point, so they end up offing themselves.

This is real, can't afford to be PC on this issue with the military. Sure, some will pass screening, then hopefully they can stay sane long enough to serve their time before losing it, but make no mistake about it, the desire to mutilate yourself is a mental illness.

jjanecka Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
They need to come out and say transgenderism is a mental illness already.
Just Relax Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
I don't disagree with any of the arguments made but his timing on this just seems terrible. Why announce this out of left field while the health care debate should be front and center?

If this is an important issue tactfully have a debate instead of blasting out on twitter and catching everyone off guard. He can be the independent voice of change we need but so far he's just alienating everyone and getting nothing accomplished.
Buckwheat Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Just Relax wrote:
I don't disagree with any of the arguments made but his timing on this just seems terrible. Why announce this out of left field while the health care debate should be front and center?

If this is an important issue tactfully have a debate instead of blasting out on twitter and catching everyone off guard. He can be the independent voice of change we need but so far he's just alienating everyone and getting nothing accomplished.


+1

bgz wrote:
Actually it is considered a mental illness.

Gender Dysphoria.



I learned something new today. Thanks bgz fog
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
I heard about a group of wimmens who cut their tongues off..... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
DrMaddVibe wrote:


The military is for killing and destroying...it's not some grand social experiment.




As much as I want this to be true...it hasn't been. Not for some 50+ years.

Especially the first part.

As to the second....well, we may not have been lab rats, but....we do have a fair degree of historical success integrating better than much of civilian American society.
Buckwheat Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
I heard about a group of wimmens who cut their tongues off..... Mellow


Ellen Jamesians?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlZUBUSKbFk
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
ya.. that's them... freaks... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
Paul, everyone knows you have a thing with the LGBT's. Your feelings on this have nothing to do with it.

But I don't believe that the medical community has clinically characterized being Transgender as a mental illness.
And NO I don't think that the government should pay for any form a reassignment surgery or therapies. horse




So even though you admit to "wanting to believe " what you wrote....it doesn't involve your feelings???? Shame on you

And even though YOU could have searched out what BGZ laid down....you didn't. MKay but has nuttin to do with your feelings on the matter.....
Buckwheat Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
TMCTLT wrote:
So even though you admit to "wanting to believe " what you wrote....it doesn't involve your feelings???? Shame on you

And even though YOU could have searched out what BGZ laid down....you didn't. MKay but has nuttin to do with your feelings on the matter.....


Point taken. I hope you realize that I like to get into arguments here for no particular reason? Beer
dstieger Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
buckwheat is victor?
TMCTLT Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Buckwheat wrote:
Point taken. I hope you realize that I like to get into arguments here for no particular reason? Beer



As do I my friend, not intentionally....but it does happen. No worries...we're alright my friend Beer
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
OhMyGod
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
dated a girl who told me that... actually she said sometimes she just like being a bitch... it didn't work out... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Is that when you switched to dudes?
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
Mad
jjanecka Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Well I guess I won't be splitting a room anymore with Drafter for the Dallas Herf... Not talking
bgz Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Well, if he's like opel, he'll feed you and roofie you before he "R words" you, so you should be good, you won't remember a thing!
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
My wife would object anyways... she's attended the past two with me... Herfing
Speyside Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
What would Max Klinger do?
Buckwheat Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Speyside wrote:
What would Max Klinger do?


You just won the internet!! Beer
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I've not served in our military.

I've never wished my wee-wee was a hoo-haw.

I'll leave the discussions to the experts.

Although, to be fair I never thought this was such a big issue. Do we really have a lot of transgender soldiers running around?
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
just for a little while... Mellow
Buckwheat Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
tailgater wrote:
I've not served in our military.

I've never wished my wee-wee was a hoo-haw.

I'll leave the discussions to the experts.

Although, to be fair I never thought this was such a big issue. Do we really have a lot of transgender soldiers running around?


+1

DrafterX wrote:
Miscellaneous Disqualifying Conditions

Genitourinary (Females)
Congenital absence of uterus

Think Think



Most of this list I understand but why this one?
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
I'm just the messenger man... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,219
tailgater wrote:
I've not served in our military.

I've never wished my wee-wee was a hoo-haw.

I'll leave the discussions to the experts.

Although, to be fair I never thought this was such a big issue. Do we really have a lot of transgender soldiers running around?

maybe a few, but I suspect they mostly represent those that have been completely ignored here...female to male.
All focus seems to be on d-ickectomy only.

and yes, oddly enough the military does seem better at integrating than society in general.
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