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Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 94 replies replies.
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1.3 Billion in benefits for illegals??
MACS Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/03/la-made-1-3b-in-illegal-immigrant-welfare-payouts-in-just-2-years.html

And that's just in LosT Angeles.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
But I heard they didn't get any.... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733

Macs....ya can't keep em voting for the DNC if ya don't pay em off....

Just ask Nancy and Maxine
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Something doesn't smell right with those #s
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
No... never mind. I stand corrected... that seems about in line
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
1.3k per illegal... that's not a ton on money. And it's the local government making that decision and spending their local tax revenue... I thought we were a fan of local government making their own decisions....


(Or is that only when the decision agrees with us?)
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
maybe not a ton of money but that's a ton of illegals... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
1.3k per illegal... that's not a ton on money. And it's the local government making that decision and spending their local tax revenue... I thought we were a fan of local government making their own decisions....


(Or is that only when the decision agrees with us?)



So none of those funds are Federal dollars? If not then IDGAS. But your fellow Californians might
MACS Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
Wow, Victor. We go from no illegals are getting any money, to it's only 1.3 thousand per illegal and it's a local gov't decision so we should be okay with it?

No. Fuck no. Tax revenue should never benefit people here illegally. State, federal, or local.
burnem2 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-23-2009
Posts: 628
You've got to be on full retard to support illegals getting dollars from any source. "Illegal" get it?!?!?!
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
or at least an idiot... Mellow
Buckwheat Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
maybe not a ton of money but that's a ton of illegals... Mellow


+1
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
but I think this has to do with the illegals dropping babies while they are here.... I guess they are still considered citizens for some reason... big ass loophole that needs closing... we end up paying the illegal parents to take of the baby.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Macs... I'm pretty sure the arguments in the past have been over federal programs.

I would be unlikely to weigh in on local programs since they will be different across the country and making a blanket statement is likely to end up wrong.

Generally if something requires a SSN my rule of thumb is that they are not going to be able to take advantage of it. If they are, then they are also paying into the system (because hey they got a SSN that's now linked to their income and getting taxed).
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,473
^ getting taxed..... 😂

You think they're claiming 0???!!!!

Damn youz smart
DrMaddVibe Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
End the anchor baby program now...make it retroactive too.

You have a baby in any other country and they're like..."Awesome...when are you going back home?"
tamapatom Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
If you have a SSN, Vic says you are a taxpayer BUT if your income is so low that you qualify for welfare, how much in taxes are you really paying? If you receive more than you pay it would be a net loss. Not sure how all that works.

Sales tax only?

TMCTLT Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tamapatom wrote:
If you have a SSN, Vic says you are a taxpayer BUT if your income is so low that you qualify for welfare, how much in taxes are you really paying? If you receive more than you pay it would be a net loss. Not sure how all that works.

Sales tax only?




Well in all fairness we ARE talking about Vicki....
delta1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
I read somewhere awhile ago that the net benefit is positive...undocumented workers pay sales taxes, work in several industries that struggle to fill all the labor positions they have, keeping their businesses going...their contributions keep the cost of living lower for the rest of us...
tamapatom Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
delta1 wrote:
I read somewhere awhile ago that the net benefit is positive...undocumented workers pay sales taxes, work in several industries that struggle to fill all the labor positions they have, keeping their businesses going...their contributions keep the cost of living lower for the rest of us...

Net gain on the State level, net loss on the Federal level?
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I guess I'm not seeing the reason to wring ones hands here....
They likely don't have an SSN. That makes federal benefits kind of difficult. They may be receiving county or municipal benefits, but they pay into that the same way any of us do (property taxes, sales taxes etc...) they may receive some state benefits which they only pay partially into (doubt they pay a state income tax)... but that is a states decision.

If they have an SSN then they're paying taxes on all levels... and I would guess (could be wrong) that if they have the resources to get an SSN they may actually be earning sufficient money to be worth it... I doubt someone thinks it's worthwhile to get a fake SSN for a fruit picker...
ZRX1200 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,473
Al, they're depressing wages so NO.....they're not making it easier for us.
teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't know how they are using their local funds in cali. I just assume they are doing all kinds of stupid ****. If they are spending it on welfare for illegals I'd be pissed if I lived there and work towards stopping it.

The problem with the article is it's completely impossible to prove or disprove it's veracity and was likely purposely written that way. It's written in a way to appear legit and to use legit data sources but does not provide the actual data or links to it nor does it provide definitions to its terminology such as what do they define as "benefits". While extreme, using a road could be and has been considered a benefit in some studies. It does allude to what they consider benefit but it's partial and self serving. If it's not self serving intentionally then it may just be poor writing. The conclusions could be 100% wrong, 100% correct or somewhere in between. It smacks of being a hack piece.

But it is cali and they do do stupid ****.

Illegal is illegal and if you break a law (even speeding) don't bitch and take you lumps. Send them home. I am for making it more possible to come here legally and documented rather than more difficult however.

I guess I'm anti illegal immigration but pro legal immigration. I knew the current admin was simply anti immigration or pandering to a base that is.
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Why do you hate the Mexicans..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Because of what they did to my great grandpappy

But we all know when we are talking illegals we are not talking Mexicans. I am shocked and outraged you would think so (channeling douche Steven millers faux outrage and stupid ass posturing)
delta1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
ZRX1200 wrote:
Al, they're depressing wages so NO.....they're not making it easier for us.



Yes, in a few industries, like construction, but there are many cities and counties in California that get around this by mandating union labor in public projects.

The big one though, is agriculture. Many huge farms in California were reporting labor shortages, even while paying farm-workers $17.50 to $20/hour. Those companies say few citizens apply for those jobs, and they rely on a consistent pool of immigrant laborers.

The next big industry is tourism: housekeeping/food service. The pay isn't great and few citizens want those jobs, which attract a lot of undocumented workers.

It is not only wages that have to be factored in: we have to consider the price of goods and services. Without undocumented workers, your fruits and vegetables would cost much more, hotel rates would be much higher, restaurant meals would be higher...

I'm not smart enough to know the answer. There are many jobs that only foreign laborers are interested in doing, and those businesses need that labor pool to survive...
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Fine.. let them apply for work visas.. as many prolly do.. still not an excuse for hiding in da banana boat... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733


And then there's Denver' mayor....who thinks it's a good idea to create a " legal defense fund " for the Illegal Invaders.


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/08/04/denver-mayor-to-establish-legal-defense-fund-for-illegal-aliens-via-executive-ord-n2364421#comment-3453139518
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That's silly of him and I have always been anti illegal anything.

But the attack on and desire to cut legal immigration is ****.

Anti immigration in general is hard to defend as anything but fear and ignorance.
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Cut them..?? That doesn't sound very nice... Mellow
jjanecka Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
TW, it is an issue of national security. Let's close the doors to just about everyone, clean up the mess we have with all the illegals first, and then in Trump's second term see if easing regulations is where we need to be.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I just simply disagree. I get the anti illegal but the anti immigration not so much. And the admin isn't pushing it as national security.

It does stoke an ugly part of his supporters though. Not all his supporters but he does have an ugly group as do the Dems that this is red meat for.

Miller is a bigot.
delta1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
oh yeah!!! Well you're a.......uhh....a... cosmopolitan.....


lol (at the Pee Wee Herman look-a- like boob)
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't even like cosmos

I don't know how that sack if excrement has a job.
MACS Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
How is it bad to pick and choose who we allow in our country?

No criminals. No welfare cases. If you can't support yourself, and have nothing of value to add to our society... apply elsewhere.
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't mind "picking or choosing" that's cool. No problem. Cutting by 50% when it's already difficult not so much.

I'm for cracking down on illegal and increasing legal.

I'm sorry though this admin is simply anti immigration. I remember when trump used to pretend not to be.

And Miller has always been pond scum. It's weird to see him and his ideas being taken seriously.
deadeyedick Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,952
MACS wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/03/la-made-1-3b-in-illegal-immigrant-welfare-payouts-in-just-2-years.html

And that's just in LosT Angeles.



Tip of the iceberg.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I dunno.. is it the lack of personnel to properly vet the immigrants that mandates the reduction..?? Or is there one..?! I hadn't heard about a 50% reduction.. I know previously you just had to promise to vote Democrat and you were in.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is no lack of ability to vet or national security issue. It's a political move wrapped in easily disproven faux economics.
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
This has long been planned.
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Well, your definition of long isn't very reliable.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
At least 2 or 3
TMCTLT Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
I don't mind "picking or choosing" that's cool. No problem. Cutting by 50% when it's already difficult not so much.

I'm for cracking down on illegal and increasing legal.

I'm sorry though this admin is simply anti immigration. I remember when trump used to pretend not to be.

And Miller has always been pond scum. It's weird to see him and his ideas being taken seriously.




I have to ask TW, WHY do you have a NEED to increase " legal immigration " ? I'm not saying we should halt all immigration....but I am curious on your view as to WHY you believe we need more humanity in the US?????

Is 320+ million not enough?
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think it's what has and will continue to make us great and is what separates us from the not so great.

I disagree with Mr Sh1tbag Miller's assessment if our history, culture and the Statue of Liberty and while I can agree with enforcing the law on illegals am appalled at the attempts to scapegoat all immigrants.

Some in here have hung their hat on I know so and so and they did it legally therefore we need to crack down on the illegals. Now there is an attempt to make it virtually impossible for common (not welfare junkies) immigrants to come here. It is already challenging. What Miller is pushing would keep some of the best and brightest who have come here over the years, and many of our friends and families out.

I've not said this about illegals, and it is not something I accuse commonly or lightly, but it is a policy based on bigotry and fear rather than security, economics or anything substantive and is purely red meat for some of the ugliest corners of our country.

I find it repugnant but the white supremacist are rejoicing. That's not saying all who support it are white supremacists. It doesn't work that way. But generally if it gives them wood you should pause for a moment and reflect.
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Luckily I think the congress sees it for what it is and it doesn't have much of a chance.

Simply excluding grandparents is enough to question the party that used to pride itself on family values.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Country of origin aside, if you have two families that want in and one can support themselves and one can't.. how would you decide..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
What they are pushing drafter is not that simple but some sure are buying the marketing.

No one (at least I'm not) is suggesting that hasn't and isn't happening already and that it isn't appropriate. That's a non starter.

I've got no issue with triage at all.
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I'll try to study a little more on it.. I hadn't heard much really.. it didn't sound like they were closing the door completely on the destitute tho.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I may not agree with a lot of the made up data, costs, and stories used to vilify illegals and blame them for some of our country's problems. I don't need to. They are illegal, send them home. Send them home now. You don't need to justify it. As a matter of fact when you make stuff up or use disproven data to do so it cheapens it. Send them home. Period. I wish they were all gone so we could actually cut through the crap and focus on the real root of some of our problems instead of the emotional rhetoric..

But is the next step really to go after those that are doing it right? To make up a false narrative about the folks not coming here illegally like countless others but taking the hard road by doing all the right things, going to classes, learning english, and beaming with pride when nationalized. It seems to me most of those folks have put more effort in to it than many of us and are every bit as American.

On Friday I attended a promotion ceremony for a commissioned corps officer (and his family) who would likely have been excluded under this policy (language, country of origin, education, $$ status) but has learned English, went to nursing school, and has excelled since. His wife and kids are great members of our community and promise to be so for generations. I sat there thinking this dude and his family were so proud, and he busted his ass to get to where he is. He does what I do for a living but worked much harder to get there.

To accuse them of draining the welfare rolls using disproven data and studies and to begin the narrative of denigrating them for political purposes is disgusting. And once Americans they are Americans. To treat them differently is disgusting. Miller is a POS that has been pushing this for a long time along with Bannon and his ilk.

Who is next?

Focus on the illegals until solved or mitigated. This is political misdirection, theater and fodder for the bigots. (once again not calling all who support it bigots, it doesn't work that way... but a good chunk are and feed on this crap). This is a solution without a problem.
TMCTLT Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
I may not agree with a lot of the made up data, costs, and stories used to vilify illegals and blame them for some of our country's problems. I don't need to. They are illegal, send them home. Send them home now. You don't need to justify it. As a matter of fact when you make stuff up or use disproven data to do so it cheapens it. Send them home. Period. I wish they were all gone so we could actually cut through the crap and focus on the real root of some of our problems instead of the emotional rhetoric..

But is the next step really to go after those that are doing it right? To make up a false narrative about the folks not coming here illegally like countless others but taking the hard road by doing all the right things, going to classes, learning english, and beaming with pride when nationalized. It seems to me most of those folks have put more effort in to it than many of us and are every bit as American.

On Friday I attended a promotion ceremony for a commissioned corps officer (and his family) who would likely have been excluded under this policy (language, country of origin, education, $$ status) but has learned English, went to nursing school, and has excelled since. His wife and kids are great members of our community and promise to be so for generations. I sat there thinking this dude and his family were so proud, and he busted his ass to get to where he is. He does what I do for a living but worked much harder to get there.

To accuse them of draining the welfare rolls using disproven data and studies and to begin the narrative of denigrating them for political purposes is disgusting. And once Americans they are Americans. To treat them differently is disgusting. Miller is a POS that has been pushing this for a long time along with Bannon and his ilk.

Who is next?

Focus on the illegals until solved or mitigated. This is political misdirection, theater and fodder for the bigots. (once again not calling all who support it bigots, it doesn't work that way... but a good chunk are and feed on this crap). This is a solution without a problem.



Oh for Pete's sake TW...yournsofullof****. Nothing like trying to use guilt ( from those BORN and RAISED here ) to justify YOUR OPINIONS and accusations of bigotry etc. Shame on you

NONONE to my knowledge is trying to go after " those doing it right " And your " guesses and " would likelies " are tiring @ best...hard to focus on anything with the left and it's media putting this admin. under constant scrutiny. I know they have a mission here, to put enough roadblocks in place to obstruct this admin. from getting anything positive done.
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