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delta1 Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 12:28 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
TMCTLT wrote:
So Al....your certain that millions of your fellow Americans have hate in their hearts for you because you married a Caucasian woman? Geez, give us a break already and nice attempt @ moral equivalence.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moral_equivalence


No, I haven't counted, but there were many states that had miscegenation laws that prohibited inter-racial marriage when I was young. Those laws were finally ruled unconstitutional by the USSC in 1967. In states that were enacting laws to overturn the miscegenation laws, there was strong and vocal opposition: literally millions of people. Sure, many of those who voted against laws for inter-racial marriage are dead now, but many also had children...and the young faces of the Neo-Nazis on parade was disheartening...

Moral equivalence? Are the American soldiers who killed the Nazis during WWII equivalent to the Nazis who killed American soldiers? Don't our history books say America and the world triumphed over the greatest evil to ever threaten the world?
victor809 Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yeah... but TCBY would march with these ones. So they can't all be bad.
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Can't help but feel sorry for the guy

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/17/christopher-cantwell-fearful-jpm-orig.vice-news-chris-cantwell/video/playlists/cant-miss/
TMCTLT Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
delta1 wrote:
No, I haven't counted, but there were many states that had miscegenation laws that prohibited inter-racial marriage when I was young. Those laws were finally ruled unconstitutional by the USSC in 1967. In states that were enacting laws to overturn the miscegenation laws, there was strong and vocal opposition: literally millions of people. Sure, many of those who voted against laws for inter-racial marriage are dead now, but many also had children...and the young faces of the Neo-Nazis on parade was disheartening...

Moral equivalence? Are the American soldiers who killed the Nazis during WWII equivalent to the Nazis who killed American soldiers? Don't our history books say America and the world triumphed over the greatest evil to ever threaten the world?



My Mother always used to tell me, "Don't you worry about what others are doing....you worry about YOU and you do what YOU KNOW IS RIGHT.

There's always gonna be some of these people out there unfortunately Al, is it a shame or disheartening? Absolutely and if I could wave Victors magic wand and make it all go away I would, but everyone knows he doesn't really have one. And as far as our history books go...I cannot comment on what's actually contained in them TODAY as we re-write our Nations history to fit particular narratives.



Yeah... but TCBY would march with these ones. So they can't all be bad.



I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey, monkey man

I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man

I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
Monkey, monkey man.....................just tossing Sh*t around
DrafterX Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
teedubbya wrote:
Can't help but feel sorry for the guy

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/17/christopher-cantwell-fearful-jpm-orig.vice-news-chris-cantwell/video/playlists/cant-miss/



Kick him in da balls.. give him a reason to cry.. Not talking
victor809 Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
. And as far as our history books go...I cannot comment on what's actually contained in them TODAY as we re-write our Nations history to fit particular narratives.



I think that's a "yes I'd be marching with neo nazis"....
TMCTLT Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:13 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I think that's a "yes I'd be marching with neo nazis"....



You don't " Think " you toss sh*t around to see where it might stick....


'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey, monkey man

I'm a monkey man
I'm a monkey man

I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
I'm a monkey, m-m-monkey
Monkey, monkey man
victor809 Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yeah... I see it's really hard for you to actually say "no, I wouldn't be marching with those Nazis because they're nazis"... instead you just claim I'm throwing **** around.

You'd hope that people wouldn't have so much trouble saying "yeah I don't want to be associated with nazis"...
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... but how dare I insinuate that you might be a racist...
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
In fairness he did call you a monkey that might fling poo... I'd guess similar variants were said last weekend
TMCTLT Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:22 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
uote=victor809]Yeah... I see it's really hard for you to actually say "no, I wouldn't be marching with those Nazis because they're nazis"... instead you just claim I'm throwing **** around.

You'd hope that people wouldn't have so much trouble saying "yeah I don't want to be associated with nazis"... [/quote]




victor809 wrote:
... but how dare I insinuate that you might be a racist...



Reading comprehension can be a real B*tch for some....please see post # 45 **** slinger.
victor809 Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... your reading comprehension is poor.

I stated you were upset I insinuate you were a racist.

But that would require that you believe everyone marching there was a nazi. When I asked you whether you thoight they all were nazis... you dodged the question. That implies you don't believe they all were. You've dodged any insinuation that you would be there yourself. Of course that all circles back to the original logical leap, which would imply you don't think everyone marching there was a nazi...
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well I hope we're not too messianic
Or a trifle too satanic
But we love to play the blues
TMCTLT Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:39 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
... your reading comprehension is poor.

I stated you were upset I insinuate you were a racist.

But that would require that you believe everyone marching there was a nazi. When I asked you whether you thoight they all were nazis... you dodged the question. That implies you don't believe they all were. You've dodged any insinuation that you would be there yourself. Of course that all circles back to the original logical leap, which would imply you don't think everyone marching there was a nazi...



That is like insinuating that EVERYONE who attended the OBLM protest in Ferguson....were OBLM members and that simply wasn't the case. Many there simply attended to show their solidarity with the OBLM members And NO...I do NOT believe everyone there was a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer....sorry. But feel free to package them all up conveniently.....that's what you do.
victor809 Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I already stated somewhere my opinion that if you're marching anywhere and the person standing next to you is chanting antisemitic crap and waving a white power or nazi symbol the bare minimum you have to do is walk away. Anything less than that and you have enough comfort with Nazis in my mind that you are one.

"Many there simply attended to show their solidarity with the oblm members" (whatever oblm stands for)....
So... you're saying they were there to show solidarity with Nazis? But weren't nazis?... yeah. Not a grey area on nazis...
teedubbya Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/08/17/elle-reeve-vice-charlottesville-rally-protesters-ac-sot.cnn



understood this is just one person embedded with the nazis.... but she was there and they do have tons of footage
teedubbya Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I didn't realize both sides had permits
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Nazis and pedophiles... two things that i really thought our entire country could come to agreement were bad.

But no.

Next week... Trump tweets "Jared from subway was bad... really bad... but no one is talking about those bad 12 year olds... they're bad too!"
TMCTLT Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
I didn't realize both sides had permits



Yes, and my understanding is that the leader of the WS's already had one that was for " another site " but wanted to be @ Lees Park? because his statue was there and this rally WAS about some wanting to rid our country of ALL THINGS historically connected to the Civil War. IIRC it was like ONE day before the said rally that the Mayor gave them a permit FOR THE SAME PARK
delta1 Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
Don't forget the ones who abuse puppy dogs...gotta protect the puppies...
TMCTLT Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I already stated somewhere my opinion that if you're marching anywhere and the person standing next to you is chanting antisemitic crap and waving a white power or nazi symbol the bare minimum you have to do is walk away. Anything less than that and you have enough comfort with Nazis in my mind that you are one.

"Many there simply attended to show their solidarity with the oblm members" (whatever oblm stands for)....
So... you're saying they were there to show solidarity with Nazis? But weren't nazis?... yeah. Not a grey area on nazis...



No they were there to show solidarity in their beliefs that the monuments should NOT be torn down. Too bad all of this is just a word game for you ya troll.

And that's right.....it's YOUR OPINION....your entitled to it.
teedubbya Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I still say if I'm anywhere near a bunch of nazis in full regalia chanting what they were and marching as they were I'm getting the hell away no matter how much I like a statue, or I am confronting them..... torches, guns, body armor etc prolly is my signal to get away rather than confront... but I'm a wuss


And I am convinced now more than ever there was no appreciable amount of innocent people hangin with the nazis due to their love of fine art
delta1 Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
teedubbya wrote:
I didn't realize both sides had permits



Kinda takes away the air from the people defending the Neo Nazis...but also puts the spotlight on why the city and University didn't take greater security measures to keep the two groups apart...big money is gonna be paid in a few years, by all of us tax-payers...
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
delta1 wrote:
Kinda takes away the air from the people defending the Neo Nazis...but also puts the spotlight on why the city and University didn't take greater security measures to keep the two groups apart...big money is gonna be paid in a few years, by all of us tax-payers...



It certainly knee caps much of what the Prez said....


but I am in agreement with those bagging on the mayor, security etc.
victor809 Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tcby... no one was there for the statues.
The organizer was the Kessler guy in post 66. A meweling frightened white supremacist.
delta1 Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:12 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
I don't understand the reverence for the losing generals and leaders (and their symbols) of the Confederacy, who wanted to tear apart the USA more than 150 years ago (seven/eight generations)...

can someone please direct me to a good source that offers a well constructed reason...I honestly want to know...


...people who still worship Hitler are ostracized, and he was around only 80 years or so ago, so one would think passage of time would reduce the fervor...
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
why have museums at all then.. hell the Smithsonian is taking up some pretty valuable real estate.. it needs to go.. History sucks.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What would a statue have to do with a museum? A museum would have actual artifacts from the war. Not a modern statue constructed to honor the losing side.

The only association a statue has with actual history is for the time period it was built. So sure, put a statue in the museum to show what people built in the 1920s or 1950s to honor generals fighting to keep slavery legal.
victor809 Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
This has nothing to do with history.
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I know, let's go door to door to make sure nobody has any paintings of Sherman or Lee also... we can have a big bonfire and make smores and chit.. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
victor809 wrote:
This has nothing to do with history.




it has everything to do with history.. who are you trying to brainwash..?? that has to be the stupidest thing you've ever said... I'll give you a chance to fix it.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What does it have to do with history. State what historical information you can glean from a statue built 50-100 years after the fact.

Paintings are art (as a statue is) and not historical information unless they are painted by a firsthand witness. If you want to classify the stairs as art, fine. Theyre an example of 20th century art.

delta1 Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:33 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
I have no problems with museums, that's prolly where all the statues of historic people and events can be properly displayed...I guess it's like the Missions of California...many Native Americans object to their existence, but they have been preserved ... some argue the Indians lost and white people won, so the Missions stay...I equate the missions to museums, but my relatives didn't get killed or enslaved by the Franciscans...dunno...life is hard, then you die...
victor809 Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You're not smart drafter.

Your arguments really aren't good.

The more you try to justify this the more I realize you aren't thinking very deeply about any of this.
DrafterX Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I'm very disappointed in you Victor.. Not talking
victor809 Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
This isn't hard for people to unserstand. A historically contemporary item is historic information. A book documenting the event is historic information.

A statue is something which is created to celebrate a historic person or event. A statue of Lee is celebrating Lee, not documenting any history at all (other than whoever built the statue liked Lee enough to make a statue of him)

So... don't tear down battle sites. Don't tear down missionaries. Tear down statues in non historic locations celebrating bad people who were fighting to support bad ideas.
DrafterX Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
maybe if it was a nude statue of Lee... but the uniform doesn't tell you anything..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
why have museums at all then.. hell the Smithsonian is taking up some pretty valuable real estate.. it needs to go.. History sucks.. Mellow



A museum is probably where most will end up. I don't think anyone is removing statues from museums. I said before I don't care and think the statues should stay. I'm not for the movement to tear them down. I'm not particularly pro statues either but meh...

I don't think anyone is saying go to homes and remove paintings. I think only morons are preaching destroy the statues (and there are some that are).


In this specific case a locality had already decided to remove a statue. I don't know what they intended to do with it... don't really care.



The nazis decided to protest (with permit) against the removal decision. Don't have to like it but they can. Some folks decided to protest against the nazis (with permit). Whatever... I'm more sympathetic to one group than the other but YMMV.


And apparantly a good number of good people who love statues decided to stand by the nazis or just didn't realize the nazis were there. They are soft fawn like folks who had NO IDEA..... gambling? in this joint?

I also heard the brooklyn bridge was for sale.
teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I heard drafter has a nude gen lee light switch cover that he flips on and off every night.
DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
no way man... I don't even know what Lee looks like.. Not talking
victor809 Offline
#91 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:50 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Drafter. That's not history. If you think a colorless stair telling you a guy wore a uniform is history then you learned nothing in history class.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I don't know but I bet there's a plaque on that statue somewhere telling us a little bit of History... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think it would be funny if general shermans ancestors came in and lit it on fire
opelmanta1900 Offline
#94 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
it has everything to do with history.. who are you trying to brainwash..?? that has to be the stupidest thing you've ever said... I'll give you a chance to fix it.. Mellow

so if I build a popsicle stick monument to the losers of the 2017 superbowl, all of a sudden it's history? there's a layer of critically thinking missing from what you're saying...

stonehenge is history...

mount rushmore isn't history, it's a monument commemorating historical figures...

there's a critical difference there... and many people wisely believe that - like the losers of the 2017 super bowl - the confederates deserve no commemoration...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:

And what the Hell does "Jews will not replace us" even mean?


they took our jobs!
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
they've been there for a few generations now with no issues... if you're part of the PC then you see it as some sort of victory... if you're not you see it for what it is, the pussification of America.. Mellow




Ok Victor, what if we took Lee of the horse..?? Can the horse stay..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#97 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Oh... so now it's not history? But the "pussification of america"?bandit it drafter. You don't know why you want to keep them other than because someone you don't like wants to get rid of them.
victor809 Offline
#98 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dammit... bandit=admit
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Why do you hate the War Ponies Victor..?? Huh
DrafterX Offline
#100 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I never said they didn't represent history... Not talking
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