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victor809 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Ok. I'll concede this one.

Dumb azz president trump was claiming "what's next? statues of jefferson and washington?" and no one believed anyone was stupid enough to demand that. For the simple fact that statues to Washington and Jefferson are not celebrating their slave-holder status, but rather their accomplishment in founding the country.

Then this dumb-ass had to open their mouth and prove that there is someone out there dumb enough to demand that.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/begins-democratic-strategist-calls-statues-washington-come/
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Is this about Sharpton...cause somebody already started a thread about Sharpton demanding the Jefferson memorial get leveled... Mellow
corey sellers Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,363
Dam they need to read a little history and go after the Lincoln Memorial he hated Africans check debates before he was president

Just saying
Speyside Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Nothing is suprising when it comes to stupid.
bgz Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Uh, we came to the same logical conclusion on this forum before trump did, it was inevitable dumb asses would come to the same conclusion only on the other side.

If you remember right, I said ... why stop there, the Pyramids were built on slavery, blow them up.

Railroads were built on slavery, they need to come down too.

We should probably hit up Rome too, destroy the Colosseum and all their historical monuments... yep, all built by slaves.

That's why you can't bend, the moment you show weakness, people will try to run you over.

That's what people mean when they call it the pu$$ification of America folks... it was a good ride while it lasted.

It sucks that these people would have let that which everyone fought so hard for over the centuries simply die in vain, but it's over.

One thing I learned a long time ago... people are generally fking stupid.
Mr. Jones Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
It's

1
9
8
4

and BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING
corey sellers Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,363
You are my hero^^^^^ well said brother
TMCTLT Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 5:07 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
corey sellers wrote:
Dam they need to read a little history and go after the Lincoln Memorial he hated Africans check debates before he was president

Just saying



That little tidbit is conveniently routinely ignored....like many other inconvenient truths.
TMCTLT Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 5:44 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733

And then there's this....


Keep it classy Democrats

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/17/missouri-senator-i-hope-trump-is-assassinated/
tamapatom Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 7:38 AM EST
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
Maybe they can put a Spike Lee stone head on all the Lee statues and everyone can be happy.
teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 7:38 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
No doubt the Dems will shoot themselves in the foot and act like fools. They are fools.

One side being idiots does not absolve the other. Make no mistake. The Dems suck.
TMCTLT Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 7:55 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733


Here's another Dem politician who's lost his mind....

http://www.yourconroenews.com/news/us/article/Wisconsin-mayor-orders-removal-of-Confederate-11862816.php
Gene363 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814

Erasing history, perhaps Germany and Poland should close and demolish the death camp museums and memorials. SMDH

It's a Brave New World and 1984 was supposed to be a warning not a plan.
gummy jones Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:52 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
mob idiocy is growing
being offended is very en vogue
personal responsibility and accountability not so much
live and let live not so much
love thy neighbor not so much (unless they are exactly like you)

praying for revival
opelmanta1900 Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Gene363 wrote:
Erasing history, perhaps Germany and Poland should close and demolish the death camp museums and memorials. SMDH

It's a Brave New World and 1984 was supposed to be a warning not a plan.

Germany and Poland have museums that celebrate death camps? They should definitely take those down if that's the case...

d'oh!
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bgz... just because someone is stupid enough to actually take a concept to its illogical conclusion is not a sufficient rationale to not do something.

There is a distinct and understandable (for someone who understands basic logical structure) line between not having confederate statues and not having statues of our founding fathers or having pyramids. Some on the right demonstrated an inability to understand that clear difference. I laughed at them. Now this woman has shown that idiots are on both sides. I'm mocking her now too.

Don't put yourself in that group.
delta1 Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Republicans are the Party of Lincoln...I guess...but only when it's convenient? There are enough idiots to go around, on both sides...



ALARM: ALL Lives American REALLY Matter...new CBid hate group...
delta1 Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 3:12 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/blog_confederate_monuments2.gif


Think
Gene363 Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Germany and Poland have museums that celebrate death camps? They should definitely take those down if that's the case...

d'oh!


Ha ha, no. Celebration no, memorialize yes. So we never forget, the complete opposite of burying history.
victor809 Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 6:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So gene wants to replace all the confederate statues with memorials to the slaves they were fighting to keep as property... gotcha... ok don't forget history.

These dumb statues themselves are an attempt to bury history. They are trying to bury the cause which the south went to war over under some sort of namby pamby feelings of southern self determination (to own slaves... they always leave that off).

Seriously... if the plaques were more honest I'm sure fewer peolple would have a problem with it... "this is a statue to general Lee, who some say wasn't a big fan of slavery but who made the conscious decision to fight for a side which wanted to promote slavery across the entire country because he just couldn't see himself fighting against his home state of virginia... which seceded to become part of the confederacy and spread slavery across the nation. We are better off as a country that he lost bigly..."

Sorta like the Sammy Sosa asterisk...
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sammy Sosa is white now
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 6:33 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Maybe if we gave the Lee statues a fro?
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 6:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sorry... A-Rod asterisk. I don't know my baseball...
Gene363 Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
victor809 wrote:
So gene wants to replace all the confederate statues with memorials to the slaves they were fighting to keep as property... gotcha... ok don't forget history.

These dumb statues themselves are an attempt to bury history. They are trying to bury the cause which the south went to war over under some sort of namby pamby feelings of southern self determination (to own slaves... they always leave that off).

Seriously... if the plaques were more honest I'm sure fewer peolple would have a problem with it... "this is a statue to general Lee, who some say wasn't a big fan of slavery but who made the conscious decision to fight for a side which wanted to promote slavery across the entire country because he just couldn't see himself fighting against his home state of virginia... which seceded to become part of the confederacy and spread slavery across the nation. We are better off as a country that he lost bigly..."

Sorta like the Sammy Sosa asterisk...


Bull S H I T. Have you ever actually stood in front of a confederate memorial or a civil war memorial?
victor809 Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Why would i... not an art buff.
Gene363 Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 8:48 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
victor809 wrote:
Why would i... not an art buff.


You could pay your respect and learn a little history. The art part is pretty victorian anyway.
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
How would I learn history looking at a memorial that I wouldn't learn from a book... a memorial is a piece of art with very rudimentary information on it (perhaps 2 sentences to 2 paragraphs at most).

Besides. I don't do memorials of people who fought for america. Why would I do memorials for people who fought against it.
Gene363 Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 9:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
victor809 wrote:
How would I learn history looking at a memorial that I wouldn't learn from a book... a memorial is a piece of art with very rudimentary information on it (perhaps 2 sentences to 2 paragraphs at most).

Besides. I don't do memorials of people who fought for america. Why would I do memorials for people who fought against it.


Since I'm pretty sure you haven't read many books on the topic either, I'd guess you're afraid your notions of history might not fit reality That and you believe you are an island among men and have no relation with, or debt to, the people that sacrificed to allow you the freedom to ignore history.
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Aug 18 2017, 10:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... a few points.
1 - I freely admit I'm not strong in history. Which is why I've only made assertions I can back up with primary documentation.
2 - are you suggesting anyone in this country owes a debt to the confederate soldiers? I certainly hope you're not.
3- if you feel the purpose of a monument is to pay a debt one has to a person, then you should want to remove monuments to people who wanted to destroy this country.
4 - monuments are just symbols. One can have respect without having to spend time staring at a slab of rock. I would argue that someone who pays lip service to a monument and then acts contrary to the tenets of our country is showing much less respect for what that monument symbilizes.
delta1 Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Aug 19 2017, 1:16 AM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Most of the monuments were erected 40 - 50 years after the Civil War, not to honor those who fought for the Confederacy, but to intimidate the blacks who were disenfranchised then, being lynched and persecuted at the height of the Jim Crow era, a period of legalized American segregation, a time when the KKK was at its strength.

Another peak of monument building happened during the years before the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1965, a backlash against Civil Rights sentiment.
bgz Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Aug 19 2017, 2:34 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
victor809 wrote:
Bgz... just because someone is stupid enough to actually take a concept to its illogical conclusion is not a sufficient rationale to not do something.

There is a distinct and understandable (for someone who understands basic logical structure) line between not having confederate statues and not having statues of our founding fathers or having pyramids. Some on the right demonstrated an inability to understand that clear difference. I laughed at them. Now this woman has shown that idiots are on both sides. I'm mocking her now too.

Don't put yourself in that group.


My main problem is you can't erase history no matter how hard you try. You can try to change it, but the truth is still there... If it's a part of their history, you can't "fix it". Why rob your children of the history, to let them know how far we've come. To be able to show them where historic events took place, and educate them of the history as you understand it... and most importantly, let them know that there's still work to be done.

I would hardly call it illogical, all it takes is one, then the "me toos" start popping out. Already saw some preacher saying he wants to get rid of Washington, Jackson, etc... monuments, then keep the street names, but dedicate them to black Washingtons and Jacksons (I believe Michael Jackson was the one he specified). LOL, and it'll happen too, because people want to keep caving in... the history is important... all the history, the good and the bad.

So with that, in most these places, there's room for additional statues. If the places are of historical significance, erect more statues maybe from the other side, or from a counter point of view. It would encourage people to research to learn more about what happened.

Or take all the statues down and praise Michael Jackson and let the history be forgotten as if it never happened. Until the next generation comes along and gets pissed their their predecessors ripped it down and they can't say anything about it because the great firewall of the US got erected so as to not offend the children (I guess I have a tendency of taking concepts to conclusions with a non-zero probability of happening).

I'm pretty sure some "do not offend" laws will be popping up within the next 10 to 15 years.
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Aug 19 2017, 2:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bgz... the "history" argument is false to begin with (caveat... if it's an accurate rendition of some battle scene in the location of the battle itself)... a statue of a southern general in a park which he never fought in is not teaching history...

I understand your desire to use the "slippery slope" argument, but it's only applicable if the actual reason is the same (But more and more extreme). The argument against confederate soldier monuments is not the same argument as that against Washington or jefferson. While some people can legitimately say they are offended by both groups, that doesn't mean the argument they can make is the same.
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Aug 19 2017, 7:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Seems to me there's a hell of alot of more important chit to be worried about.. anti-statue people need to grow the **** up.. they're only pushing this still because Obama let them force their beliefs on somebody else.. it's time they were told no...

And I know Victor could care less either way.. Mellow
bgz Offline
#34 Posted: Sun, Aug 20 2017, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
victor809 wrote:

I understand your desire to use the "slippery slope" argument, but it's only applicable if the actual reason is the same (But more and more extreme).


I guess the pending democratic apocalypse due to letting the under-educated, idiocratic left from erasing history wasn't enough.

With that said, I was under the impression these things had historical significance to the areas where they're at. If it's just some random park, I can agree with you to a degree... but when dealing with commies, you gotta watch that slippery slope, you might end up losing your step.

K, that's all I got, I'm out of bullets on this topic... already wasted too much brain power coming up with a defense for something I don't really care about.
gummy jones Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Aug 20 2017, 12:33 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
I agree with Charles Barkley?
Who woulda thunk it?

Quote:

I'm not gonna waste my time thinking about these confederate statues. That's wasted energy. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna keep doing great things. I'm gonna keep trying to make a difference number one in the black community, because I'm black, but I'm also gonna try to do good things in the world.
I'm not gonna waste my time screaming at a neo-Nazi who's gonna hate me no matter what, and I'm not gonna waste my time...worrying about these statues they got all over the country.

Then Karle asked him what should be done with the statues. Do we just ignore them?

I've always ignored them. Rick, I'm 54 years old. I've never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you ask most black people to be honest, they haven't thought a day in their life about those stupid statues.
What we as black people need to do, we need to worry about getting our education. We need to stop killing each other. We need to try to find a way to have more economic opportunity and things like that. Those things are important and significant.


I would bet that if you ask most white folks, they dont think of those statues either

[video embedded in below link]
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/jennifervanlaar/2017/08/20/icymi-charles-barkley-sounds-off-on-monument-issue-n2371000
bgz Offline
#36 Posted: Sun, Aug 20 2017, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya, I agree with Barkley too.
dstieger Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 10:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
gummy jones wrote:
You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna keep doing great things. I'm gonna keep trying to make a difference number one in the black community, because I'm black, but I'm also gonna try to do good things in the world.


I guess I haven't been paying attention....when did Barkley decide it was ok to be a role model?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
2011... it was easy to miss cuz he had it sandwiched in between dui and hooker arrests...
gummy jones Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
opelmanta1900 wrote:
2011... it was easy to miss cuz he had it sandwiched in between dui and hooker arrests...


and bar fights and racist diatribes
delta1 Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
so... that proves a broken clock can be right at least twice a day?
fishinguitarman Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Rugby
tailgater Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2017, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
so... that proves a broken clock can be right at least twice a day?


Not if it's digital.
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