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Assuming Beauvoir will last. Pretty sure it will go before Washington or Jefferson stuff.

I'd be curious what the numbers are regarding statues/ monuments to the north vs south. How many statues of Sherman are there vs Lee? Because I don't know of many Sherman statues (ny... prolly one in dc).

Kinda weird to think about.

I'm sure there are many statues in and around London. Good luck on finding the Beauvoir town square.

True story. My first time in Annapolis I wandered in (sort of drunk) to the middle of the Kunta Kintay festival. I was alone and it felt awkward. They do have an Alex Haley statue there.

Are the statues commemorating MLK fighting to keep gay rights suppressed? Cuz if they are, then probably.

... that's not true MACS. (I like your compromise though)
The civil war may have been a long time ago but some of these statues were erected in the 50s and 60s ... no one asked the people erecting them why they cared so much for something that was 100 years ago.

Part of the history isn't the civil war. Part of the history is the reasons some of these statues and monuments were erected. That's history people still alive lived through.

He brutalized his people. Recently. They're still alive... so it's not a fair comparison.

It seems to me people are just digging up sh*t to be outraged over. Why weren't we outraged about this in 1994? Or even 2000? Why today?

To be fair, MACS, when I was in college in TN a fair few years ago, the monuments around the town as well as the name of at least one building were debated publicly and frequently. While nothing changed with the monuments, at least to my knowledge, the name of Forrest Hall was a few years ago. Perhaps it was more regional then? I'm sure Murfreesboro, TN wasn't the only place in the South where these conversations were had 20-30 years ago. But they probably weren't had up North.

Two things that stick out in this thread


Victor....uh statues don't fight for anything buddy. I've never seen one even move. I think that's where we get the saying, "still as a statue". Come on man


TW....
Beauvoir is the home place of Jefferson Davis. It's not a town. I think it's about 50 acres in size.

MACS... you don't think there's a chance that the people who were upset about it then were afraid to say anything then? In some ways what some people are identifying as racial divisiveness is actually improved racial equality allowing people to voice their opinion about something which 50 years ago wpuld have been a big problem.

It's a different generation... while their parents were just happy they weren't going to be lynched... this generation is asking questions about why the nation is honoring these people with statues.

I Don't see why we are honoring them with statues either... they were not Americans and they didn't further the American cause or humanities cause.

That's an absolute shame. It's a city ripe for an economic boom, and hopefully not the short-term oil type of the 70's/early 80's.

I did not go into detail but that was taken care of in #6.

I hope jetblasteds kids have to go to tecumseh Sherman high school. He after all was a winner.

I think you can tell the statue thing is a non issue to me. But the nazis I hate and would never march with them no matter how nice they are.

It just struck me. Victor has become Androomi Light. I don't believe he believes a third of what he posts. Although I do believe he does hate the homeless.

The media and the left have no idea... I mean NONE, as to how much damage they have done and continue to do.

They are going win the battle and lose the war. I don't recall any of you who are taking the left stand on statues being outraged by them prior to Charlotte. Where was your moral outrage to the memorials?

Hopefully, they take the next reasonable step- tearing down Gettysburg and other military parks. Or if they stay, the South or the Confederacy would not be referred to as such. Maybe something like The People Who Fought The Loving Father Government That Shall Not Be Named.... as not to offend.

Victor, I know you'll be crushed to hear this, but at for least for a day or two, I'll be missing out on both your, and the posts of Hank. I've been Hank-free for a month and a half and it has become a nice, quality of life upgrade.

Life is too short. MACS, you were right.

When the Alt Right hits next (because it will) maybe they'll pick Starbucks.

A left wing business, populated by hate-filled people, who denounce hate.

Seven dolllar coffees are offensive.

And once they are identified as rallying points for the Alt Right, they'll need to be shut down and removed.

I don't care about the damn statues. Leave them. I think it's dumb.

Auswich, Alamo etc are museums meant to teach and remember. The holocost museum is very moving and no one wants references to Hitler or the nazis removed. The American Indian museum is way cool and features Custer among others. No one wants confederates removed from the story. There are many museums that tell the whole story.

I'm not aware of anyone wanting to remove the statues from museums. Although I'd not be surprised if there is some moron pushing that, that's not what's happening here. No one is trying to forget history, maybe not glorify it, but not forget it. If you honestly believe this particular group wants you to forget who fought to keep them enslaved beg to differ.

The irony here is it's a state or local decision in these cases and it seems some take issue with that. If a locality decides to remove a statue what's the issue to you or me?

It is possible to understand a position you disagree with. I really don't care about the statues. So 8 you are right. I was neither outraged before nor now. But I also don't summarily discount someone else's views because I don't agree. Although some in here would argue otherwise I just don't think I'm smart enough to believe my view is the right one or the only right one and the opposing view is nothing but destructive, greedy, evil, or some other nonsense.

In here to understand the other side, defend part of the other side, or not march lock step to your side (not talking about 8) makes you liberal or communist or whatever. The need to label and blame opposing views is sick and part of the problem.

I get why some are opposed to the statues. It makes total sense to me. To not understand how people in a group that was enslaved not all that long ago in historical terms might take offense to the statues is pretty blind to your own view. I may not agree with it but I get it. It would be weird if a good amount of them didn't feel that way.

The protesters against the nazis were not the same as the nazis. I strongly beleive that. Ymmv. I may think differently of you if you do think they are the same. Whatever.

I get called fence post sometimes, a liberal sometimes etc depending who's views I agree or don't agree with. There is a difference between having no integrity or core beliefs and having an open mind. I think more need to use empathy in their logic. You don't need to change your position to be able to understand the other side. It's just not always good vs evil because you beleive your beliefs are good.

^ better stated and more concise than me. Yet demonstrates a better understanding. I learned something. Excellent.

Monkey...I need to spank you...you have eloquently made a case for the South...can we hire you to promote California, prolly hated 10x as much as the South here?


I see a parallel...California's biggest industry needs immigrant labor, legal or illegal, to survive today, just as much as Southerners believed their survival depended on slave labor in the 18th century...Statues of union farm labor leaders are and have been very controversial here...


it's always the economy, which means living well or badly or worse, and one's position in society...once that issue comes to the forefront, the positives: the beauty of the natural surroundings, the possibilities for both sides, the humanity (all God's gifts to all) fades from the discussion.

Are you suggesting enslaving illegal aliens in order to be both a deterrent, and to keep prices on produce low?

Where do I go to vote for you?

Sensitive DUECES AND WHITE SNOWFLAKE CRYBABIES NEED CHILL PILLS and a GOOD SMACK UPSIDE THEIR SENSITIVE NOGGINS WITH A METAL EXPANDING BATON ROD....

Be sure and give us an update on the statues in De Beauvoir while in London.