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I bet Pelosi hates this getting out...
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has ramped up calls to remove "reprehensible" Confederate statues from the halls of Congress -- but left unsaid in her public denunciations is that her father helped dedicate such a statue decades ago while mayor of Baltimore.


It was May 2, 1948, when, according to a Baltimore Sun article from that day, “3,000” looked on as then-Governor William Preston Lane Jr. and Pelosi’s father, the late Thomas D’Alesandro Jr., spoke at the dedication of a monument to honor Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

The article said Lane delivered a speech, and Mayor D’Alesandro “accepted” the memorial.

“Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity, we can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions,” D’Alesandro said in his dedication. “We must remain steadfast in our determination to preserve freedom, not only for ourselves, but for the other liberty-loving nations who are striving to preserve their national unity as free nations.”

He added: “In these days of uncertainty and turmoil, Americans must emulate Jackson’s example and stand like a stone wall against aggression in any form that would seek to destroy the liberty of the world.”

Film at 11....Think




Pelosi's Dad's words don't sound racist tho... Could it be racism wasn't the intention... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
The "subversive groups and propaganda" mentioned in the speech referred to the NAACP and the black civil rights movement aimed at the Baltimore Ford's Theater's segregationist seating policy, requiring blacks to sit only in the balcony.. Paul Robeson led a march there that year. There were also protests against the University of Maryland denying entrance to black students, which led to a lawsuit ultimately decided by the USSC in 1950, ruling the UM's admission policy unconstitutional...

...so yeah... the statues were intended to intimidate blacks...

...few of the dedication speeches were overtly racist, even then...it was not hard to find "code" words, though...
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Code words ehh..?? Think
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
delta1 wrote:
The "subversive groups and propaganda" mentioned in the speech referred to the NAACP and the black civil rights movement .



How do we know this..?? Think
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,424
delta1 wrote:
The "subversive groups and propaganda" mentioned in the speech referred to the NAACP and the black civil rights movement aimed at the Baltimore Ford Theater's segregationist seating policy, requiring blacks to sit only in the balcony.. Paul Robeson led a march there that year. There were also protests against the University of Maryland denying entrance to black students, which led to a lawsuit ultimately decided by the USSC in 1950, ruling the UM's admission policy unconstitutional...

...so yeah... the statues were intended to intimidate blacks...

...few of the dedication speeches were overtly racist, even then...it was not hard to find "code" words, though...



Carrying the water for the oppressors???

horse
delta1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
...some of our country's history is distasteful and shameful...just putting some context to the speech by the Governor of Maryland quoted in the OP...


google "civil rights movement, after WWII, Baltimore"


That was THE Ford's Theater...protest with Robeson happened the same year, 1948...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
How do we know this..?? Think

how do you not? you think he was talking about the kkk? you think the kkk was up in arms about the installation of a memorial to a racist piece of sh*t traitor? racist pieces of sh*t traitors are what the kkk is made of!
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Is Pelosi admitting her father was a racist?

That plastic-faced waste of oxygen is just jumping on the racism bandwagon.

In my humble opinion, of course.

delta1 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
My father and mother were racists at heart...they both thought Chinese were superior to whites, blacks and mexicans, in that order...several of my father's friends, neighbors and co-workers were overtly racist...heck, I remember my Dad showing me businesses in cities nearby with signs saying "whites only"

Norms change...societal taboos change...although racism still exists here, Americans are mostly anti-racists, at least publicly...
tailgater Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
My father and mother were racists at heart...they both thought Chinese were superior to whites, blacks and mexicans, in that order...several of my father's friends, neighbors and co-workers were overtly racist...heck, I remember my Dad showing me businesses in cities nearby with signs saying "whites only"

Norms change...societal taboos change...although racism still exists here, Americans are mostly anti-racists, at least publicly...


Well that settles it.
We should tear everything down because everything was erected by racists.

On the plus side, this will create jobs.

DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Ya, somebody's gotta make the Brittany & Obama statues... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
tailgater wrote:
Well that settles it.
We should tear everything down because everything was erected by racists.

On the plus side, this will create jobs.



NOT reasons for confederate statue removal:

1. The person was racist
2. The person owned slaves

Reasons for confederate statue removal:

1. The statues are memorials to despicable human beings whose only contribution to the world was being a cowardly traitor to their own country

here's a good litmus test: if your argument for keeping a memorial to a confederate soldier could be used to keep a statue of hitler in germany, you're a moron... "It's part of our history", "it represents a different time", "my grandpappy fought for (fill in the blank)"... none of that sh*t matters, except to morons... we don't memorialize losers in this country... win or stfu...
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
So, Germany makes the rules now..?? Huh


If these weren't a problem when they were erected they shouldn't be one now.. nobody is losing sleep over this.. it's just a few people forcing their opinions on the rest of the country..
How do you suppose a vote on the matter would turn out.. Huh
tailgater Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
NOT reasons for confederate statue removal:

1. The person was racist
2. The person owned slaves

Reasons for confederate statue removal:

1. The statues are memorials to despicable human beings whose only contribution to the world was being a cowardly traitor to their own country

here's a good litmus test: if your argument for keeping a memorial to a confederate soldier could be used to keep a statue of hitler in germany, you're a moron... "It's part of our history", "it represents a different time", "my grandpappy fought for (fill in the blank)"... none of that sh*t matters, except to morons... we don't memorialize losers in this country... win or stfu...


The number one reason to NOT remove a statue: Because you're only peeved because it's now in fashion to be peeved. Get over yourself you pretentious butterfly.

This rule trumps all others, and it's pretty solid because last time I looked there are no statues honoring Hitler hanging around.



opelmanta1900 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
tailgater wrote:
The number one reason to NOT remove a statue: Because you're only peeved because it's now in fashion to be peeved. Get over yourself you pretentious butterfly.

This rule trumps all others, and it's pretty solid because last time I looked there are no statues honoring Hitler hanging around.




not peeved now nor ever, and if you bother to pay attention, the groups that truly want the statues removed have wanted them removed for much longer than the few months trump has been in office there buttercup... and you should probably take account of yourself, knowing the germans had the sense you don't - to not honor losers...

and the best rule is still Win or STFU!
opelmanta1900 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
So, Germany makes the rules now..?? Huh


If these weren't a problem when they were erected they shouldn't be one now.. nobody is losing sleep over this.. it's just a few people forcing their opinions on the rest of the country..
How do you suppose a vote on the matter would turn out.. Huh

were segregation laws a problem when they were started? was slavery a problem when it was widely accepted? lower your skirt, your racism is showing....
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Statues are only racist if someone deems it so... Not talking
opelmanta1900 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
so you believe we live in a world where a statue of hitler could be built right now and have nothing to do with racism? really? I guess racism can just blind you to reality...
delta1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
tailgater wrote:
Well that settles it.
We should tear everything down because everything was erected by racists.

On the plus side, this will create jobs.



You missed my point totally...Pelosi may be an apple that fell far from the tree...not all of us sing our father's songs...though it seems that number is far greater than I would've thought...never said I was smaht...

someone way more intelligent than I said "If we don't learn from history, we are bound to f*** up all over again" ... something like that

To further enlighten you and Drafter, may I suggest a google search: "FBI" "labels" and "subversives"...

It is sad to think that there are some among us who wish to return to those great days...
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
So, leaving the statues in place will undo everything we've accomplished in the past hundred years..?? Huh
opelmanta1900 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
So, leaving the statues in place will undo everything we've accomplished in the past hundred years..?? Huh

here's what you do... every time you have one of these q's pop into your head, you just ask yourself the same question about hitler...

would leaving statues of hitler in place undo everything germany has accomplished?

the correct answer is, why the f*ck are you having a discussion about memorializing this piece of sh*t... anything commemorating or memorializing a loser like that is obviously in despicable taste...
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Why is this an issue now.?? Huh
opelmanta1900 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
your racism? just never knew it existed before... and it's not really an issue, just disappointing...
tailgater Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
You missed my point totally...Pelosi may be an apple that fell far from the tree...not all of us sing our father's songs...though it seems that number is far greater than I would've thought...never said I was smaht...

someone way more intelligent than I said "If we don't learn from history, we are bound to f*** up all over again" ... something like that

To further enlighten you and Drafter, may I suggest a google search: "FBI" "labels" and "subversives"...

It is sad to think that there are some among us who wish to return to those great days...


First, I didn't miss your point. I sarcastically added to it.
I never considered Nancy (Pelosi. Not Opel) to be racist just because her dad hanged the hired help before breakfast each sunday.

But we're losing focus here.
We know there is racism. And there is no excuse for it.
But People today, right now, are using monuments to make a political point.
We can let them. Or we can be adults.





DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Look snowflake, just answer the question.. there's no reason to call me a racist just because I'm not jumping on your Politically Correct bandwagon.. nobody cared about the damn statues 8 years ago.. tearing them will only empower the snowflake driven wussification movement.. leaving the statues alone will not change a damn thing.. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
here's what you do... every time you have one of these q's pop into your head, you just ask yourself the same question about hitler...

would leaving statues of hitler in place undo everything germany has accomplished?

the correct answer is, why the f*ck are you having a discussion about memorializing this piece of sh*t... anything commemorating or memorializing a loser like that is obviously in despicable taste...


Again with the hitler thingy.
It's awesome how you don't see how your bag of trick exposes you for what you are.
Never change, man.


opelmanta1900 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
Look snowflake, just answer the question.. there's no reason to call me a racist just because I'm not jumping on your Politically Correct bandwagon.. nobody cared about the damn statues 8 years ago.. tearing them will only empower the snowflake driven wussification movement.. leaving the statues alone will not change a damn thing.. Mellow

media.nola.com/politics/photo/battle-of-liberty-place-monument-afcc3caf84bc7bc4.jpg

1993... go f*ck yourself...
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
LOL

That wasn't very hard... When you can't answer the question deflect with anger and insults.. did you guys take a class for this or were you just born that way... Laugh
opelmanta1900 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
DrafterX wrote:
LOL

That wasn't very hard... When you can't answer the question deflect with anger and insults.. did you guys take a class for this or were you just born that way... Laugh

I watched you do it in the post above mine, calling me a snowflake... back when you were saying no one cared about this until now...

I countered your ignorant statement about this just now becoming an issue and you decide to cry about being insulted? Kinda like that white supremacist who just made that YouTube video crying because he might get arrested... nice...
tailgater Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
media.nola.com/politics/photo/battle-of-liberty-place-monument-afcc3caf84bc7bc4.jpg

1993... go f*ck yourself...


Oh.
well that proves it.

LOL!



opelmanta1900 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Did you even look at their picture? You wanna lecture me on how those uppity black snowflakes are just being empowered when we remove those movements celebrating their enslavement?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
tailgater wrote:
Oh.
well that proves it.

LOL!




Yes, it literally does prove that this has not just become an issue recently... why is that funny to you? Or were you just laughing at the black guys getting dragged off by the cops?
tailgater Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Did you even look at their picture? You wanna lecture me on how those uppity black snowflakes are just being empowered when we remove those movements celebrating their enslavement?


"Uppity blacks".
Nope.
Never said that.
Never even alluded to it.

You're working yourself into a lather on this one.



DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
He's nothing to me.. just because I don't need to remove a damn statue to feel better about myself doesn't make me a racist... The battle over the Confederate flag played out but that wasn't good enough was it..?? Always gotta take a step further.. just like the gay marriage thing.. the majority of the people are against that too... What's next..??or are you waiting for someone else to tell you what to be upset about..?? Mellow
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Yes, it literally does prove that this has not just become an issue recently... why is that funny to you? Or were you just laughing at the black guys getting dragged off by the cops?


You're a hoot.
I'm laughing at you. Not at the picture.

tailgater Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
He's nothing to me.. just because I don't need to remove a damn statue to feel better about myself doesn't make me a racist... The battle over the Confederate flag played out but that wasn't good enough was it..?? Always gotta take a step further.. just like the gay marriage thing.. the majority of the people are against that too... What's next..??or are you waiting for someone else to tell you what to be upset about..?? Mellow


The majority of people are racist homophobes?
Boy, this took a turn fast!


opelmanta1900 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
It's not about you "not needing to remove a damn statue" drafter... it's that you're dead set on keeping it, no matter what... you know what it stands for, you know why it was put there, and you don't give a f*ck what any black person feels about it...

Again, I'm not upset over any of this... unlike you, i truly don't care what happens to the statues... I'm just disappointed with the level of acceptable racism in this forum.... i know I'm not alone, just in the minority...
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
The racism is in your head.. you were taught to see it if someone disagrees with you... It's pretty obvious... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
opelmanta1900 wrote:
It's not about you "not needing to remove a damn statue" drafter... it's that you're dead set on keeping it, no matter what... you know what it stands for, you know why it was put there, and you don't give a f*ck what any black person feels about it...

Again, I'm not upset over any of this... unlike you, i truly don't care what happens to the statues... I'm just disappointed with the level of acceptable racism in this forum.... i know I'm not alone, just in the minority...


You know if you play that racism card too often you'll go blind.



DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Gotta wonder what percentage of the black community that's statues really bother... Opie is assuming every black man who walks by these things is somehow feels oppressed all of a sudden... I would bet it's just not true... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Opel and I would be put on a list of subversives if we were alive in 1948 and said the things we've posted. There have been people complaining about those monuments from the very beginning, because the very reason they were erected was to demonstrate the absolute power of the white establishment then, in the face of blacks speaking up about inequality and injustice...I personally don't care if they stand or fall, but I do have empathy for those who are lower than cr*p on our society's totem pole because that's my origin...

Opel represents an empathetic member of the majority, and when enough of them began speaking out, on behalf or, or in partnership with, minority civil rights groups, the issue got attention. Not when it was only a few minority voices...

...here's another analogy...Japanese Americans are considered part of the model minorities in America, like the well-behaved pet in the house. Imagine if they suddenly got vocal and demonstrative about their treatment during WWII (they were rounded up and imprisoned in isolated internment camps, stripped of their homes, businesses, farms, lands, property). Would establishment America erect statues of atomic bombs Fat Boy and Little Boy and the Enola Gay Bomber in or near Japanese towns/centers? No, but they did something comparable in our history by putting up those statues during periods of black empowerment protests...
tailgater Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
Opel and I would be put on a list of subversives if we were alive in 1948 and said the things we've posted. There have been people complaining about those monuments from the very beginning, because the very reason they were erected was to demonstrate the absolute power of the white establishment then, in the face of blacks speaking up about inequality and injustice...I personally don't care if they stand or fall, but I do have empathy for those who are lower than cr*p on our society's totem pole because that's my origin...

Opel represents an empathetic member of the majority, and when enough of them began speaking out, on behalf or, or in partnership with, minority civil rights groups, the issue got attention. Not when it was only a few minority voices...

...here's another analogy...Japanese Americans are considered part of the model minorities in America, like the well-behaved pet in the house. Imagine if they suddenly got vocal and demonstrative about their treatment during WWII (they were rounded up and imprisoned in isolated internment camps, stripped of their homes, businesses, farms, lands, property). Would establishment America erect statues of atomic bombs Fat Boy and Little Boy and the Enola Gay Bomber in or near Japanese towns/centers? No, but they did something comparable in our history by putting up those statues during periods of black empowerment protests...


Delta,
for all the reasons you cite, I agree that I would be against erecting such monuments today.
But I disagree with you on the highlighted selection above.
That is your interpretation using today's moral positions.
It wasn't the original intent, and unless you prove otherwise I think it's fair to say you're wrong.

Look at the confederate flag.
Growing up, it was all about the Dukes of Hazard and Lynyrd Skynrd and big belt buckles.
Now I learn that I obviously hate black people because I own an album with it on the cover.

Stop.
Just stop.
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Hillary had a framed one in her office... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
The lens of HISTORICAL CONTEXT is lost on the left.

The outrage today and the mission of the religion of the leftist state is the only concern.
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
#42 ^


I liked the Dukes of Hazard and still play Free Bird.


Not an interpretation...

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544266880/confederate-statues-were-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future



I'm just putting out another viewpoint. Sorry mine and yours don't always line up. We do agree on many other things, though...

...but just because we disagree about some, I don't want you to stop expressing your opinions...this is an open forum
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
^ don't be like that, Joe is an ass.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I guess one thing that bothers me is someone trying to speak for an entire race.... Especially not their own... I have no doubt these statues offend or bother some members of the black community... But I refuse to believe black men are all of sudden feeling oppressed when they pass by one... Many have been there for 4 generations.. One could say this protest is just another way to keep racism alive... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
lemmee break down the first phrase of the Governor's speech at the dedication ceremonies of the Lee and Jackson statues:

What Gov Lane said: "Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity,"


What Gov. Lane meant: "The communist negroes in the NAACP and those who join them in demanding their "Constitutional right" to sit in the front row or whatever seat they want at the Ford's Theater, or demanding that they be able go to school at the University of Maryland, and demanding their Constitutional equal rights and equal opportunities, are trying to tear down our nation of laws that protect the white majority by keeping it intact and uniform and separate from the subhuman negroes..."

Lane goes on to say "our response to this BS is Lee and Jackson...suck it..."


The FBI declared the NAACP a subversive group in the mid 40's, along with Communists, allowing it to investigate, harass, confiscate property, serve warrants, conduct surveillance including wiretaps...
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
If that is entirely correct put it on a plaque in front of it... Wouldn't that be better than erasing history..?? Mellow
Mr. Jones Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Pelosi forgets more than she remembers.
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