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tailgater Offline
#51 Posted: Fri, Aug 25 2017, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
#42 ^


I liked the Dukes of Hazard and still play Free Bird.


Not an interpretation...

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544266880/confederate-statues-were-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future



I'm just putting out another viewpoint. Sorry mine and yours don't always line up. We do agree on many other things, though...

...but just because we disagree about some, I don't want you to stop expressing your opinions...this is an open forum


Interesting read, but I'd need to see an unbiased source.
For instance:
"A look at this chart shows huge spikes in construction twice during the 20th century: in the early 1900s, and then again in the 1950s and 60s. Both were times of extreme civil rights tension."

The 50's and 60's were also a time of extreme American infrastructure.
So which interpretation do we believe?
And why does it take 70 years for the nation to hear this?

Was the General Lee statue in Charlotsville dedicated to white supremacists when it was erected?

tailgater Offline
#52 Posted: Fri, Aug 25 2017, 9:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
lemmee break down the first phrase of the Governor's speech at the dedication ceremonies of the Lee and Jackson statues:

What Gov Lane said: "Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity,"


What Gov. Lane meant: "The communist negroes in the NAACP and those who join them in demanding their "Constitutional right" to sit in the front row or whatever seat they want at the Ford's Theater, or demanding that they be able go to school at the University of Maryland, and demanding their Constitutional equal rights and equal opportunities, are trying to tear down our nation of laws that protect the white majority by keeping it intact and uniform and separate from the subhuman negroes..."

Lane goes on to say "our response to this BS is Lee and Jackson...suck it..."


The FBI declared the NAACP a subversive group in the mid 40's, along with Communists, allowing it to investigate, harass, confiscate property, serve warrants, conduct surveillance including wiretaps...


That's quite an interpretation. (And I especially like how Lane quoted me).
But this is still a paranoid viewpoint.
The communists were well known to be "subversive" across the nation. In the south back then nobody would mince words. They would call the proverbial spade a spade (if I can be forgiven for this phrasing).

I'm skeptical.
But you've got me thinking.


Yup.
I think I'll have another beer.
Thanks!
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Aug 25 2017, 9:05 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
^ don't be like that, Joe is an ass.


Second worst secret here at CBid.
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 8:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I've been looking but can't find a decoder ring for this subject matter... Unless Ovaltine had somethin to do with it... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#55 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
opelmanta1900 wrote:
here's what you do... every time you have one of these q's pop into your head, you just ask yourself the same question about hitler...

would leaving statues of hitler in place undo everything germany has accomplished?

the correct answer is, why the f*ck are you having a discussion about memorializing this piece of sh*t... anything commemorating or memorializing a loser like that is obviously in despicable taste...



I get what you're saying regarding Hitler. But, to equate him to Robert E. Lee is like comparing coconuts to peanuts. Lee wasn't a dictator or megalomaniac, nor was he responsible for genocide.
Abrignac Offline
#56 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
BTW, if you're going to label Lee a traitor, then wouldn't you need to label Washington one as well. After all , didn't he lead colonial forces against the English of which the colonialists where subjects of?
Brewha Offline
#57 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Abrignac wrote:
BTW, if you're going to label Lee a traitor, then wouldn't you need to label Washington one as well. After all , didn't he lead colonial forces against the English of which the colonialists where subjects of?

No - Washington was not a traitor - because he won.
Lee was a traitor because he lost, which also makes him a loser.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#58 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Abrignac wrote:
BTW, if you're going to label Lee a traitor, then wouldn't you need to label Washington one as well. After all , didn't he lead colonial forces against the English of which the colonialists where subjects of?

Did he get in a boat and head off to Britain to start a war?
Brewha Offline
#59 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
I've been looking but can't find a decoder ring for this subject matter... Unless Ovaltine had somethin to do with it... Mellow

No need for a Ring Drafter. Here I'll help:
The guy with the Trayvon Martin hoodie thinks that racism don't count if it is guvmut backed.

Makes sence now?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#60 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Abrignac wrote:
I get what you're saying regarding Hitler. But, to equate him to Robert E. Lee is like comparing coconuts to peanuts. Lee wasn't a dictator or megalomaniac, nor was he responsible for genocide.

Not comparing Lee to Hitler... I'm comparing the memorializing of one loser to another...

The leading narrative of the day seems to be that taking down statues dedicated to losers is erasing history (I know you're smart enough to understand the difference between monuments and history but not everyone in this room is) ... Hitler is as Much or even more so an important part of Germany's history as Robert e Lee is apart of ours... but no one in Germany is building and defending statues memorializing hitler... because Hitler didn't accomplish anything worth being memorialized, and neither did lee...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#61 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:36 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Brewha wrote:
No need for a Ring Drafter. Here I'll help:
The guy with the Trayvon Martin hoodie thinks that racism don't count if it is guvmut backed.

Makes sence now?

Don't waste your breathe... racism blinds the sh*t out of some people...
Abrignac Offline
#62 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Not comparing Lee to Hitler... I'm comparing the memorializing of one loser to another...

The leading narrative of the day seems to be that taking down statues dedicated to losers is erasing history (I know you're smart enough to understand the difference between monuments and history but not everyone in this room is) ... Hitler is as Much or even more so an important part of Germany's history as Robert e Lee is apart of ours... but no one in Germany is building and defending statues memorializing hitler... because Hitler didn't accomplish anything worth being memorialized, and neither did lee...


Brush up on Lee. He was a distinguished Union soldier prior to resigning his Union commission. He was regarded for what he did after war as well.
Brewha Offline
#63 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Abrignac wrote:
Brush up on Lee. He was a distinguished Union soldier prior to resigning his Union commission. He was regarded for what he did after war as well.

I suppose the right comparison would be between Lee and Rommel. Both were general, both got their azzes kicked and lost. I don't think there are statues of Rommel in Germany - dispite Rommel having gone on to have over a dozen board games and even making it to PS3.

Lee didn't even make PS1 (loser!)
Abrignac Offline
#64 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 11:50 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Did he get in a boat and head off to Britain to start a war?


Lee received a commission in the Confederate Army in 1861. For two years he defended Virginia. It wasn't until 1863 did he lead an ill fated invasion of the north.

Read your history. The bulk of the war was fought in states that were members of the Confederacy. The southern states ceded from the Union and established their own sovereignty. Who then was the invader and who was the defender?

I'm by no means a supporter of slavery or racism in any form. But, facts are facts.
tailgater Offline
#65 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 1:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
No need for a Ring Drafter. Here I'll help:
The guy with the Trayvon Martin hoodie thinks that racism don't count if it is guvmut backed.

Makes sence now?


Not really, still doesn't make "sence".
Please enlighten us with an excerpt that even remotely suggests this.
Brewha Offline
#66 Posted: Sat, Aug 26 2017, 5:10 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
tailgater wrote:
Not really, still doesn't make "sence".
Please enlighten us with an excerpt that even remotely suggests this.



First off, I find the graphic support for the Trayvon Martin tragedy moving. Draped in the American flag with a "never forget" undertone. It servers to remind us all of the cost of racism. And that this country should be better than that. Dispite what 45 wants to see.

But back to the point - Seems many feel that open racism is ok if the local community is itself racist. It is hard to imagine a better example of this than a salve state that honors and deifies those who fought for such a inhuman and ungodly thing as living off of slaves.

So, thank heard mentality. Like lemmings.
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 8:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Confederate flag = racist
General Lee statue = racist
Border wall = racist
Supporting the POTUS = racist
Voter ID = racist
Welfare reform = racist


I know I'm forgetting some... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:10 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Drafter = racist
Brewha Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
Confederate flag = racist
General Lee statue = racist
Border wall = racist
Supporting the POTUS = racist
Voter ID = racist
Welfare reform = racist


I know I'm forgetting some... Mellow

Sometimes I think you just make this stuff up - but I know you actually just watch Fox.

Drafter, do you think the confederacy was a racist state?
Brewha Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:17 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Drafter = racist

Well......at least he supports the Indian casinos.....
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:33 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Drafter = racist



d'oh!
Forgot the most important one..
Don't think like me = racist
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:38 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Brewha wrote:
Sometimes I think you just make this stuff up - but I know you actually just watch Fox.

Drafter, do you think the confederacy was a racist state?



It's real easy to use a giant racist stamp for everyone who lived in South.. but we all know not everyone owned slaves... And the whole underground railroad thing never existed either right..?? If my neighbor is a racist that doesn't make me one.. Mellow
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
First off, I find the graphic support for the Trayvon Martin tragedy moving. Draped in the American flag with a "never forget" undertone. It servers to remind us all of the cost of racism. And that this country should be better than that. Dispite what 45 wants to see.

But back to the point - Seems many feel that open racism is ok if the local community is itself racist. It is hard to imagine a better example of this than a salve state that honors and deifies those who fought for such a inhuman and ungodly thing as living off of slaves.

So, thank heard mentality. Like lemmings.



Couple things:
1. I've never heard Bill Belichick's hoodie being compared to Trayvon before. Which only proves your myopic views, btw.
2. Union soldiers are American soldiers. Not an opinion. A fact as certified by the US Congress.

You see "open racism" because you personally feel a statue was erected for the singular purpose of putting minorities in their place. Which, AGAIN, means you're the one dwelling on the misery of yesterday and projecting your insecurities on everyone you meet.

It becomes pathetic when you have no ammunition, so you resort to calling people racist. I'm sure it makes you feel good, because without someone to label as racist you are not whole.

Which is sad.
tailgater Offline
#74 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 9:48 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
If my neighbor is a racist that doesn't make me one.. Mellow


What if your neighbor is a black racist and you don't like him?
Brewha Offline
#75 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:04 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
It's real easy to use a giant racist stamp for everyone who lived in South.. but we all know not everyone owned slaves... And the whole underground railroad thing never existed either right..?? If my neighbor is a racist that doesn't make me one.. Mellow

It is easier still to pretend that rasicm was not what the confederacy stood for. They went to war to protect it. It was their defining characteristic. The confederacy, not the South. A large part of the South did not support the war or slavery - granted they were mostly all black......
DrafterX Offline
#76 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I never denied that... Do you think pretending it never happened is going to fix anything..?? This is the kinda chit that keeps racism alive... Sharpton is holding his head up high these days...
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
tailgater wrote:
What if your neighbor is a black racist and you don't like him?




Then I don't associate with him.. do I call everyone that pulls into his driveway a racist..?? That wouldn't be fair would it..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#78 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:16 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
tailgater wrote:
Couple things:
1. I've never heard Bill Belichick's hoodie being compared to Trayvon before. Which only proves your myopic views, btw.
2. Union soldiers are American soldiers. Not an opinion. A fact as certified by the US Congress.

You see "open racism" because you personally feel a statue was erected for the singular purpose of putting minorities in their place. Which, AGAIN, means you're the one dwelling on the misery of yesterday and projecting your insecurities on everyone you meet.

It becomes pathetic when you have no ammunition, so you resort to calling people racist. I'm sure it makes you feel good, because without someone to label as racist you are not whole.

Which is sad.


1. Belichick??? Are you sure? You know if you added a skittles logo you could have a double meaning thing...
2. Not sure what this is important. Perhaps it is my nearsightedness. Union and Confederate soldiers were both American soldiers. I suppose so are the Mounties....

Now I never said the statues were erected for a singular purpose. I have said that as municipal monuments they send the wrong message about who we are.

I do appreciate you taking the time to hammer out a synthetic guilt trip though - it's nice to be thought of....
Brewha Offline
#79 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:20 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
I never denied that... Do you think pretending it never happened is going to fix anything..?? This is the kinda chit that keeps racism alive... Sharpton is holding his head up high these days...

Oh, I'm of the never forget camp. We all need to be mindfull of historical mistakes.

What keeps racism alive is municipality's that honor those who fought for slavery.

How about if for every statue of Lee taken down we replace it with one of Grant? That way the South could start to admit how wrong they were.....
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
There you go again.. 'the whole municipality is racist'... you make it sound like every Friday night they gather around the statue and chant and chit.. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 10:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
http://www.conservapedia.com/Attorney_General's_list


Think
Seems the NAACP didn't even make the Biddle list of subversives in 1948... I'm thinking he was speaking about communism but I don't have secret code words...
RMAN4443 Offline
#82 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 11:42 AM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Brewha wrote:
No need for a Ring Drafter. Here I'll help:
The guy with the Trayvon Martin hoodie thinks that racism don't count if it is guvmut backed.

Makes sence now?


I don't get the reference here......Belichick was wearing the hoodie for years before the Travon Martin incident.....so, wasn't Travon Martin wearing a Bill Belichick hoodie?.........and in the years I've been watching I don't see Bill Belichick as a racist........he deals pretty equally with all his players,black or white.......he doesn't seem to make decisions based on race-in Belichick's world it appears to be His way or the highway......no race or religion involved in the decisions.His decisions seem to effect black and white players equally.......from Richard Seymour to Wes Welker,to Logan Mankins to Vince Wilfork.I don't see the racism in his decisions.Shame on you
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 11:50 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Belichick didn't throw rocks at the white supremacists so therefore he is one... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#84 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
DrafterX wrote:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Attorney_General's_list


Think
Seems the NAACP didn't even make the Biddle list of subversives in 1948... I'm thinking he was speaking about communism but I don't have secret code words...



The FBI parted ways with AG Biddle, ignored his request to destroy the list, and continued doing surveillance on subversive domestic groups, including the Klan and those advocating for civil rights and the end to segregation.

see the US Senate Intelligence Committee's Report (Church Committee) of 1976 on "Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans", Book II, p 35 - 38.
DrafterX Offline
#85 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 1:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Is that where the code words are..?? Huh


Unless those pages specifically point to the NAACP then your theory is still just that... I think he was talking Communism... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#86 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
There you go again.. 'the whole municipality is racist'... you make it sound like every Friday night they gather around the statue and chant and chit.. Mellow

Don't be crazy - people would not openly assemble against the blacks. Or storm homes wearing hoods. Or burn crosses in people's yards.

That would be crazy.....
Brewha Offline
#87 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 2:21 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
RMAN4443 wrote:
I don't get the reference here......Belichick was wearing the hoodie for years before the Travon Martin incident.....so, wasn't Travon Martin wearing a Bill Belichick hoodie?.........and in the years I've been watching I don't see Bill Belichick as a racist........he deals pretty equally with all his players,black or white.......he doesn't seem to make decisions based on race-in Belichick's world it appears to be His way or the highway......no race or religion involved in the decisions.His decisions seem to effect black and white players equally.......from Richard Seymour to Wes Welker,to Logan Mankins to Vince Wilfork.I don't see the racism in his decisions.Shame on you

actually....I had to google Belichick to find out who he was.

But he must be a great guy is so many people wear hoodies in his honor ...... Think
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Brewha wrote:
Don't be crazy - people would not openly assemble against the blacks. Or storm homes wearing hoods. Or burn crosses in people's yards.

That would be crazy.....



Is the statue mobile.? Do they take it with them on raids and stuff..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#89 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
Is the statue mobile.? Do they take it with them on raids and stuff..?? Huh

Uhh.................no.
I do not think so.

I suppose they could make miniatures of them.....
DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Do you have a General Lee in your hotwheel collection..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#91 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 3:14 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
1. Belichick??? Are you sure? You know if you added a skittles logo you could have a double meaning thing...
2. Not sure what this is important. Perhaps it is my nearsightedness. Union and Confederate soldiers were both American soldiers. I suppose so are the Mounties....

Now I never said the statues were erected for a singular purpose. I have said that as municipal monuments they send the wrong message about who we are.

I do appreciate you taking the time to hammer out a synthetic guilt trip though - it's nice to be thought of....


LOL!
Caught with your myopic viewpoints and you've got nothing left.
tailgater Offline
#92 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Attorney_General's_list


Think
Seems the NAACP didn't even make the Biddle list of subversives in 1948... I'm thinking he was speaking about communism but I don't have secret code words...


This isn't even a fair fight.
Careful, Drafter, or you'll be slapped with being a bully.
tailgater Offline
#93 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
One thing is clear: Brewha WANTS there to be racism.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Well, Hillary lost and stuff... He's still a little bitter... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#95 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
tailgater wrote:
One thing is clear: Brewha WANTS there to be racism.


No, I just don't want it covered up, call it white washed, as you do.

Are you sure the Trayvon like icon ins't Freudian?
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
So, racism should be kept alive... We should seek out reasons to be pissed off and yell racism..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#97 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
Well, Hillary lost and stuff... He's still a little bitter... Mellow

You're just envious because the left actually had a cadidate. Even the right doesn't call Trump a victory. At least now they don't.
Brewha Offline
#98 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:37 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
DrafterX wrote:
So, racism should be kept alive... We should seek out reasons to be pissed off and yell racism..?? Huh

No - you cannot be rid of what you ignor - like the crabs....
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
How's the book burning list going..?? Have you inventoryed your local library yet..?? We can't have books about slave owners now can we... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#100 Posted: Sun, Aug 27 2017, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
http://video.foxnews.com/v/5547251491001/#sp=show-clips

So instead of tearing down the Jefferson memorial we are just going to add a plaque that says he owned slaves... Seems like an easy enough fix.. why not just make a bunch of them and post where needed..?? Huh
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