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Last post 6 years ago by teedubbya. 101 replies replies.
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So, Let's remove Statues but teach about Riots..??
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
TULSA, Oklahoma - The 1921 Tulsa Race Riot Centennial Commission made several big announcements Tuesday, September 12 - including new efforts to bring race riot lessons to Oklahoma classrooms.
It also announced efforts to place Tulsa's Greenwood District on the National Registry of Historic Places.

The commission said it plans to, "leverage the rich history surrounding the 1921 Tulsa Race Riot by facilitating actions, activities, and events that commemorate and educate all citizens."

The commission also has immediate and short-term plans in place for the recognition of the 100th anniversary of the riot in 2021. State Senator Kevin Matthews told us that the state superintendent is backing the initiative and now they're talking with educators to figure out how to best roll it out into the classroom.

"Not every teacher understands the history or how to teach it, so we're looking at ways that we can teach teachers.

The commission said Rudisill Library has materials available for teachers wanting to teach about the riot.

Commission Project Manager Jamaal Dyer said it's especially important for young Tulsans to know about this dark part of the city's history.

"It makes no sense for you to live in Tulsa, be from Tulsa, go to the Tulsa Public School system or through Tulsa schools period and not have any knowledge of these events," said the Rev. Jamaal Dyer.

A new banner was unveiled listing Greenwood's original businesses, and the commission also announced plans for an arch at the corner of Greenwood and Archer welcoming you to the district.

According to the commission, the projects of the 1921 Tulsa Race Riot Centennial Commission will educate Oklahomans and Americans about the Race Riot and its impact on the state and Nation; remember its victims and survivors; and create an environment conducive to fostering sustainable entrepreneurship and heritage tourism within the Greenwood District specifically, and North Tulsa generally.

They hope to introduce some elements of the curriculum by February - Black History Month.

Film at 11.... Think Think
Mr. Jones Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
I think...

All this bullcrap...

Is being started by...

THE NEW...

HISTORY BOOK AUTHORS TEAMSTERS
LOCAL 1786 UNION
Speyside Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Will they have a class on ,white and we are ashamed of being white? Maybe reverend Al, or reverend Jesse, or Louis will be guest speakers.
Teach it as a foot note in history class. That is what it is. BTW, Mrs. O'leary's cow was white.
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Mr. Jones wrote:
I think...

All this bullcrap...

Is being started by...

THE NEW...

HISTORY BOOK AUTHORS TEAMSTERS
LOCAL 1786 UNION





I dunno bout that.....


but if looking at a statue makes you sad how is learning about these riots gonna make you feel..?? Huh

and I'm not saying to remove the history books from the library or anything... if they hear about them and want to learn more so be it... are there gonna be counselors on standby the day the teach this..??
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter you do know the history and background surrounding the denial and suppression of information regarding this right?
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
yes I do... all I'm saying is this info might hurt a school kid's feelings... like the statues... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
They are teaching lessons about the town history that were forbidden to be taught and all information suppressed and denied for decades (literally generations) by the very people who support the statues you seem to cherish. This is a shameful part of Tulsa's history that needs sunlight so as not to repeat it.

I view this as a never forget type thing along the lines of OKC, 911, or the holocaust. It's really not similar to a Robert E. Lee statue.

One says never forget and never allow oppression. The other celebrates those that fought for oppression.

*shrug*. Things would have been much easier if we had simply treated the losers like losers in the first place. It's quite strange that we allowed the war leaders of a losing side that fought to preserve slavery to be celebrated. And at the same time we erected many of those statues we suppressed all information about this particular subject. It literally was not allowed to be taught or discussed in a public way. You figure it out.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You don't actually think he can figure it out... do you?
bgz Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I'm all for teaching the history as long as it's accurate. I think the hardest part about teaching history is to get kids to realize that the beliefs and overall mentality of people in the past varied greatly depending on the time period.

So I would encourage kids to try and look at the events from all parties involved back then, then encourage them to understand the progress that's been made since.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
wish I knew at what level they want to bring this in at... I can see race riots in da playground at recess if it's taught too young.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter is clearly on team keep this thing quiet LOL

DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
no... just thinking of the childrens.... when I was a kid we would been all over this.. course kung fu fighting was the style at the time...



you should ask yourself what Billy Jack would do... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
teedubbya wrote:
This is a shameful part of Tulsa's history that needs sunlight so as not to repeat it.



Seems like I heard this argument applied somewhere else... Think
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Would you be mad if Tulsa decided to get rid of a statue of George Kimbro, Jr. or George C. McCarron?
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I don't know who they are.... I guess i'd have to hear the reason why they want the statues down.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
They were for slavery (I assume) and stuff, as well for kluxifying oklahoma.
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
they're re-naming the Brady District because of that... there was some outrage a couple years ago but the movement got it's second wind with all the other stuff going on across the country... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Why would that matter?
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
at this point it doesn't... just stating the facts... people looked around for stuff to be outraged about and our previous politically correct President fueled the flames... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The event itself is terrible.... and the evil following it.

They went decades suppressing the information to the point that the historical society etc. didn't recognize it even happened. 75 years later (1996) the government decides the series of events may have been sort of wrong and the suppression of all the information is sort of wrong......

and drafter is mad about memorializing it and remembering it and blames Obama? LOL
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I'm not mad... I find it funny that they're choosing which memories they want suppressed and which memories they want taught in public schools... Mellow



well, I couldn't think of anything else to blame Obama for today.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Well... drafter is an idiot.

When one considers a statue to be "historical information" you aren't starting from a real view of education.
teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Dude the civil war can be taught in schools with or without statues. This literally was forbidden to be taught in schools until very recently....intentionally..... by the folks erecting or wanting confederate statues.... and you are planting your flag on which side?.

Are you really suggesting that if they are going to take down a robert e lee statue they shouldn't teach about the burning down of an affluent black neighborhood, lynchings and 75 years of pretending it didn't happen?
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
the civil war is slowly being erased... when's the last time you looked at a history book..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... provide any evidence the "civil war is slowly being erased"

That's just ... dumb...
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The civil war is not being erased. good lord.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
well, that's what I heard... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Anyone else reading this thread do yourself a favor.. forget today's politics and events and go read about the tulsa race riot of 1921. It is fascinating and something I had never heard of until the late 90s. It was a closely guarded secret in an age when you could keep things quiet. Absolutely fascinating.

An entire city and state kept the events secret.
teedubbya Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I know wiki isn't the best but:

No prosecution took place of any whites for actions committed during the riot. The city settled into an uneasy peace, and decades of virtual silence about the events were held. It was not recognized in the Tulsa Tribune feature of "Fifteen Years Ago Today" or "Twenty-five Years Ago Today". A number of people tried to document the events, gather photographs, and record the name of the dead and injured. Mary E. Jones Parrish, a young black teacher and journalist from Rochester, New York, was hired by the Inter-racial Commission to write an account of the riot. She was herself a survivor, and wrote about her experiences, as well as collecting other accounts, gathering photographs, and compiling "a partial roster of property losses in the African American community". She published this in Events of the Tulsa Disaster (1922; reprinted 1992 and 1998). It was the first book to be published about the riot. [36]

The first academic account was a master's thesis written in 1946 by Loren L. Gill, a veteran of World War II. But it did not then receive circulation beyond the University of Tulsa.[36]

In 1971 a small group of survivors gathered for a memorial service at Mount Zion Baptist Church, both blacks and whites. That year the chamber of commerce decided to commemorate the riot, but when they read the account and saw photos gathered by Ed Wheeler, host of a radio history program, they refused to publish it. He took it to both major newspapers, which refused to handle it. His article was finally published in Impact Magazine, a new publication aimed at a black audience, but most of white Tulsa never knew about it.[36]

In the early 1970s, "[a]long with Henry C. Whitlow, Jr., a history teacher at Booker T. Washington High School, [Mozella Franklin] Jones had not only helped to desegregate the Tulsa Historical Society, but had mounted the first-ever major exhibition on the history of African Americans in Tulsa. Moreover, she had also created, at the Tulsa Historical Society, the first collection of riot photographs available to the public."[36] She worked informally with a white woman, Ruth Sigler Avery, who also was trying to get accounts of the riot told to the public. They encountered pressure, particularly in the white community, to keep silent.[36]
victor809 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So a mob of whites loot and burn a black neighborhood...

And the entire city of tulsa keeps it quiet for decades.

This is starting to explain drafter.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You left out the lynchings, and the fact the city of Tulsa actively participated in the riot through the use of its police, not to mention the state through the national guard. They reportedly used planes to start fires.

Then there were the attempts to prevent them from rebuilding and to take their land (ultimately struck down in court) etc.


But most of that isn't odd. The effective silencing is what makes this one stand out.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I never said I agree with what they did... my issues are simple.. At what grade level are we teaching the kids.. And why teach this and remove other representations of history were the black communities were oppressed and abused..??

turn and twist it however you want but my questions are simple... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Drafter. If you think a statue is "teaching " then you've never learned a complex thought.

To equate teaching a topic in history with venerating someone with a statue is and always will be dumb. Stop using that dumb argument. Only idiots think it has any validity.
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I could see planes circling in mid-air. They grew in number and hummed, darted and dipped low. I could hear something like hail falling upon the top of my office building. Down East Archer, I saw the old Mid-Way hotel on fire, burning from its top, and then another and another and another building began to burn from their top,”

“Lurid flames roared and belched and licked their forked tongues into the air. Smoke ascended the sky in thick, black volumes and amid it all, the planes—now a dozen or more in number—still hummed and darted here and there with the agility of natural birds of the air.”

Franklin writes that he left his law office, locked the door, and descended to the foot of the steps.


“The side-walks were literally covered with burning turpentine balls. I knew all too well where they came from, and I knew all too well why every burning building first caught from the top,” he continues. “I paused and waited for an opportune time to escape. ‘Where oh where is our splendid fire department with its half dozen stations?’ I asked myself. ‘Is the city in conspiracy with the mob?’”


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/long-lost-manuscript-contains-searing-eyewitness-account-tulsa-race-massacre-1921-180959251/#WpbIkpJhA4vXg4eJ.99

teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I never said I agree with what they did... my issues are simple.. At what grade level are we teaching the kids.. And why teach this and remove other representations of history were the black communities were oppressed and abused..??

turn and twist it however you want but my questions are simple... Mellow



I get it.... removing robert e lee is a disservice to the blacks because it teaches about blacks being abused and oppressed...and if "they" are going to do that than this one should be too. Its either, or neither


As for age, find out. I'm sure it's not a secret. if you disagree with the age have outrage....
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
This is a shameful part of history that needs sunlight so as not to repeat it.




Or somethin like that.. but the removers argument was these things were hurtful and they didn't want to remember... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't think it is glorifying it or celebrating the people that did it.... Mellow

I think if there were statues erected in the town square of the instigators there would probably be a movement to remove them.


As I said I'm not for taking confederate statues down. I think they shouldn't be glorified and should be in context. I also think a statue of General Sherman and Grant should also be erected in every confederate county seat.
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
it's still Obama's fault... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If every confederate statue had a plaque on it saying "this guy was an azzhole who wanted to keep slavery in the USA and we have this statue here to remember how much of an azzhole he is" I'm sure everyone opposed to the statues would switch sides and support your desire to keep history drafter.
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I see the difference.. I guess I did do that knee-jerk reaction thing.. but I'm sure you could understand why I questioned it if you tried... It's not that off the wall... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And a separate plaque saying "this statue was erected in 19xx by azzhole who wanted to glorify the south in an attempt to intimidate us citizens of a different race. This particular statue was erected with donations from the following azzholes: xXxX, xXxX, xXxX "
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
victor809 wrote:
If every confederate statue had a plaque on it saying "this guy was an azzhole who wanted to keep slavery in the USA and we have this statue here to remember how much of an azzhole he is" I'm sure everyone opposed to the statues would switch sides and support your desire to keep history drafter.



that solution wouldn't be good enough because the statue would still reamain meaning somebody didn't get their way... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter if you start a go fund me for my General Sherman idea I'll donate ten dollah




victor809 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't believe you are correct drafter. I believe that would be a compromise the people who want to currently remove the statues would get behind. If you ever bothered reading why they want them removed rather than what fox news says they want....
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is a historical site here where Bonnie and Clyde got in to a shootout with the police. The site commemorates the police who lost their lives rather than bonnie and clyde but still bathes in the history of Bonnie and Clyde. Turns out Police association s are not big fans of anything glorifying criminals sort of like some are not big fans of glorifying the confederacy.

Maybe the statues should discuss the treasonous efforts, fighting to keep slavery (among other things) and the mercy of the north for forgiving their treason and taking the high road for brokering peace. And General sherman should be standing next to them with a bobble head type finger waveing in front of them and audio saying oh no you did ennnt.
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
All Sherman statues must have an eternal flame however and the inscription "He was an ideal soldier, and shared to the fullest the esprit du corps of the army, but he cherished the civil institutions organized under the Constitution, and was only a soldier that these might be perpetuated in undiminished usefulness and honor."
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
this would be much easier to talk about over a few beers face to face... I've erased more than I've posted.. Mellow
bgz Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Lol, that's cause you type like 5 words per minute.
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
this would be much easier to talk about over a few beers face to face... I've erased more than I've posted.. Mellow


lol agreed.


laser beam eyes... sherman should have laser beam eyes
Ewok126 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
DrafterX wrote:
this would be much easier to talk about over a few beers face to face... I've erased more than I've posted.. Mellow



Skype, Discord............. Each is free and comes with the ability to even use a camera so as to see each other while drinking the beer and smoking a good cigar during the discussion live. We will call it the Virtual Herf Debate. Need me to set up a room for you in Discord let me know lmaooooo. Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall
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