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How does one calibrate one's moral compass if one does not believe in a deity?

I'm not saying one cannot be moral if they don't believe, but from where do you derive your morality? Societal norms?

If there is no God, then good and evil do not exist, right? I mean... it's a matter of what's accepted by society and what isn't, no?

Something to ponder.

I agree.

Man, you sure do want this to be bigger than it is.

Newsflash: It's a cigar forum.
I see idiots like you all the time. Self important blow hards who have the keyboard fortitude to call people names.
Sometime I shake my head. But you make me laugh.

Keep up the good work.

I don't understand the question. At all. How does believing in God contribute to anyone's morality? Maybe it depends on how you understand morality in the first place. I guess my concept of it is largely about making conscious decisions relate positively to your environment -- mostly societal, but I suppose natural, also. I suspect that it is (can be?) largely learned and taught, but I also think that humans have an innate compass that helps direct us to do what is best for our 'sphere'.

I don't see how that innate 'sense' requires a deity.

Certainly, there's no shortage of examples in history where people seem to believe they were acting in accordance with God's will and perpetrated incredibly immoral acts.

MACS didn't say that believing in God contributes morality.

He's asking where one obtains his moral compass. Morals based on what?

I read his post and knew people would misinterpret. Not because it's not clear, but because people get emotional on both sides of this issue.


This is precisely where I thought my Bump Stock thread would lead.

Is the My Little Pony World a heathen society..??

Meh. It's funny that you think "racist" is a name. It's a judgement. It will vary based on the person giving that judgement. It's not like "azzwipe" or some other name which isn't specifically tied to a set of actions or behaviors. It isn't like I said it out of the blue. But it doesn't matter.

Dieties do not exist.

A "god" does not exist.

Therefore any set of morals, or as MACS put it, "calibrat[ion of] your moral compass" is actually based on a collective of people leading your religion. It isn't even the founders of the religion, as the interpretation of the religious text alters over generations (see slavery).

I would much rather trust myself to come up with a right or wrong action than some collective of people external to me telling me what is right or wrong.

For Judeo/Christians it is based on the 10 commandments, not religious leaders.

Once again, I am not saying that one cannot be moral if one does not believe in a deity.

If there is no God... there is no good or evil. Merely what is accepted and what is not.

Therefore, your compass points (morality) changes with the whim of society. As you mentioned... slavery was once an accepted practice, and it was as wrong then as it is now.

1 - Everyone's compass changes as society changes. The question is by how much. If you're morality is external to you (you claim the 10 commandments, but I've also heard you say "love the sinner hate the sin" in regards to homosexuality, so I know you believe your religion disagrees with the gays... yet that's not written in the 10 commandments anywhere.) then I would argue that your morality will change more on the whims of society than if your morality were internal.

2 - Good and evil? Like what? instantaneously good or evil? sure. An idea can be a good idea or an evil idea. An action can be good or evil. A person can be mostly good or mostly evil. I don't understand why you think this would be a problem to have outside of religion.

3 - I know this is hard for you to understand (not meaning to be insulting, I just know that this is not the way people who are particularly enamored with religion tend to think) but my morals have nothing to do with what is accepted by society. If I have to make a decision on whether to do something or not I don't generally give a rats azz whether society would agree or not. It's only whether I can look at myself in the mirror afterwards.

To imply that someone cannot maintain their own "compass points" without a religion (implying that they are going to change with the whim of society means you don't think I can maintain them myself) is borderline insulting. But also implies that you don't think you could maintain your own sense of good/evil without a religion telling you what is good/evil. And that's a little disappointing.

Those are some of the passages that I find difficult to rationalize. I read that, and I think... why are the Israelites His chosen? Why was it okay to treat the non-Israelites differently? I figured reading the word would answer a lot of questions. It hasn't. It's made me ask more questions.

If you found those passages... you can find the explanations, too. I'm not trying to convert you, Victor. I was asking a serious question.

On what do we base our morals? It is my contention that the difference between right and wrong or good and evil doesn't change. There is a basis for our morality, or a "true north" if you will.

THAT doesn't change. We do.

I did not say that, but it IS what the bible teaches.

I'm neither implying that you can't maintain your morality without religion, nor that I need it to maintain mine, Victor.

If you choose to be offended by what I said... that's totally up to you.

That might be the weakest attempt at saving face that I've ever encountered.

Bravo. You've set the bar yet again.

Or it's the truth and you're still trying to make it about me making it racial.
But it doesn't matter, you decided a long while ago that you know what goes through my head better than I do.
Don't really see how I can "set the bar yet again" since you know so much about how I think and why I say things... you should already know where that bar is.

Geez you're needy

I like how you bring things into these posts that have no relation.
I know what goes through your mind?
Why? Because I mocked your attempt to save face?
LOL!

Dude, slow down. Take a deep breath.
And try to remain focused.

Technically, the commandments were the commandments... and they're still valid and have never changed.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Those things done in the name of religion were wrong then, and they're wrong now, and were against the commandments. Many knew, but didn't say a word so they wouldn't be next in line for stoning. So The Law never changed... it was the people.

You said yourself that you base your morality off of whether or not you can look yourself in the mirror and be okay with it. Where does that internal sense of good/evil or right/wrong come from?

Can we agree there has been a lot of creative interpretation along the edges here?... killing has always been acceptable under certain circumstances (still is)... those circumstances seem to change with the times.
Not to mention there are certain things which are simply not in the 10 commandments which I've heard plenty of christians tell me are abominations against god. Whether it be homosexuality, pornography, polygamy, cannibalism....


I suppose it depends on what you're asking. Behaviorally, one would argue it comes from how you are raised, and then influenced by how the behaviors you were taught impact the world around you.
If you're asking about the basis for morality... there is a small field of study which is trying to identify genetic basis for "moral" behavior. The idea being that social animals actually have a genetic impetus "moral" behavior... But that would still have to be normalized by your upbringing.

I can agree. There are no "levels" of good or evil.

There is simply good and evil.

Edit: Your stressed opinion that there is no God is, and has been, duly noted. We've established that there is no way to prove or disprove His existence. That argument shall remain a stalemate. Well... at least until He returns.

You forgot "thou shalt own slaves"
I read here that the bible says so.
But I didn't snopes it.

I have to note it because without any evidence of a god,, there actually is no difference between what you are doing regarding "calibrating your moral compass" and the questions you have on how atheists can possibly do so. Other than you are allowing a larger part of your morals be dictated by an external source.

I know that since you believe in god, you don't see this as being significant, but you have to understand that for someone who doesn't believe in any deity, your idea that your morals are somehow special because they're directed by a deity is a bizarre notion.

Nah... in a nod to christianity I scream "Oh Yeah Dead Baby Jesus!" when I orgasm.

The weirder part is when dead baby jesus responds... I mean.. the creeper was watching the whole time....

Nah man.... he didn't even masturbate a first time... Just stood there staring at us having sex.

I never questioned your morals. I never said mine were special. I, in fact, stated you could be an atheist and still be moral.

I asked how one calibrated one's moral compass if they did not believe in God. Morals based on WHAT?

I guess your answer was morals based on what you were taught by mom/dad/societal norms. People change. What's good/evil does not. It is MY contention that morality, right and wrong / good and evil, do not change. You disagree, and that's fine by me... but if you could provide an instance where good/evil changed I'd find it helpful to understand your side.

People have changed their perceptions. As you stated, slavery was once accepted (by some) and now it isn't. Are you saying that when it was accepted it was right? Of course not... so society's moral compass changed.