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Trump to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel's Capital
rfenst Online
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
Discuss...
Gene363 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,660
About time.
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I've been doing it for decades
bgz Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
The machine needs to eat... so hungry.

Frank seems to be happy about it, so it can't be that bad.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
To be honest I don’t know what to make of it. What do we win vs what do we lose?
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
for #4

virtually the same day Israel accepted their creation, the Arabs turned theirs down...cuz they wanted the entirety (though virtually no inches of sand were offered in donation to the proposed new two state nation by any Arab nations for their dearly loved "Palestinian Brothers").

It's a joke. They considered the Trans-Jordan roamers trash.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
To be honest I don’t know what to make of it. What do we win vs what do we lose?

we get to hear threats...instead of finally hearing acceptance the State of Israel as legit and then a Palestinian State can happen, as it should have been for decades.
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
But what do WE win vs what do WE lose as a country? I have my bias but I’m just trying to figure out on a transactional level what the win is here. And I am truly ignorant in many ways on the topic.
bgz Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Same sh17 different president. Keep the region unstable, keep the war machine fed, business as usual.
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
But what do WE win vs what do WE lose as a country? I have my bias but I’m just trying to figure out on a transactional level what the win is here. And I am truly ignorant in many ways on the topic.

no one wins until/if this ever gets resolved. There has to be a Palestine, but first Israel has to be recognized.

We don't win anything being provocative either way.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
seems to me I did this several times before in related threads going back damn near 10 years.

I must recuse myself.

carry on...
rfenst Online
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
teedubbya wrote:
But what do WE win vs what do WE lose as a country? I have my bias but I’m just trying to figure out on a transactional level what the win is here. And I am truly ignorant in many ways on the topic.


There is no political "win".
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Understood. Just wondering what this accomplishes and why right now. It there a strategy?

I truly don’t know what to make of this and haven’t formed an opinion due to lack of information/understanding.

Don’t mistake my question as for or against.
MACS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
Shows our support for Israel. Maybe it moves the process forward, maybe it causes those moles we're trying to 'whack' to raise their heads.
Speyside Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Need there be a political win to do the right thing?
MACS Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
Speyside wrote:
Need there be a political win to do the right thing?


That, too.
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Clinton, Bush & Obama recognized Jerusalem as the capital.. Trump just wants to move the embassy there... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ButHillaryX wrote:
Clinton, Bush & Obama recognized Jerusalem as the capital.. Trump just wants to move the embassy there... Mellow



Really? Then there should be no issue. Cool.
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Speyside wrote:
Need there be a political win to do the right thing?



I don't think you are responding to me, but I'm not looking for a political win. I'm just wondering why we are doing it and why now.

MACS had a theory I'd not heard. Interesting. I seriously have no position here because I don't have the knowledge.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
Keeping a promise made way back in 1995!!!
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
1995 huh? Around then about the only promise I made was just the tip.
victor809 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
1995 huh? Around then about the only promise I made was just the tip.


That wasn't as much a promise as "managing expectations"... :)
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TW's question has some merit though, when you look at the decision making process...



So apparently, every president has "deferred" moving the embassy, including trump. After he initially deferred it (citing a desire to "maximize his chances of negotiating" between Palestine and Israel)... then the entire senate voted to recognize Jerusalem as the only capital...:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/senate-unanimously-passes-bill-marking-50-years-since-jerusalem-reunification/

Then, 5 months later trump does this.
It's valid to ask why. If he was holding off to get a bargaining chip, did he get one? Has it helped us in negotiating peace, or was this another completely random and spurious decision by the president? (example - elephant trophy ban)
gummy jones Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
MACS wrote:
Shows our support for Israel.


surrounded by a bunch of folks who hate them (even though they do not recognize that they exist) and us

bout time someone with some balls kept a campaign promise

love the montages of all the former presidents and candidates assuring the change to thunderous applause during the campaigns, followed by nothing
DrMaddVibe Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
victor809 wrote:
TW's question has some merit though, when you look at the decision making process...



So apparently, every president has "deferred" moving the embassy, including trump. After he initially deferred it (citing a desire to "maximize his chances of negotiating" between Palestine and Israel)... then the entire senate voted to recognize Jerusalem as the only capital...:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/senate-unanimously-passes-bill-marking-50-years-since-jerusalem-reunification/

Then, 5 months later trump does this.
It's valid to ask why. If he was holding off to get a bargaining chip, did he get one? Has it helped us in negotiating peace, or was this another completely random and spurious decision by the president? (example - elephant trophy ban)


Actually he stated that he was going to get this done.

Responding to questions about the notion of a two-state solution and whether the US embassy could be moved to Jerusalem, Mr Trump said:

So I’m looking at two-state and one-state, and I like the one that both parties like [laughter]. I’m very happy with the one that both parties like. I can live with either one.

I thought for a while the two-state looked like it may be the easier of the two. But honestly, if Bibi and if the Palestinians - if Israel and the Palestinians are happy, I’m happy with the one they like the best.

As far as the embassy moving to Jerusalem, I’d love to see that happen. We're looking at it very, very strongly. We're looking at it with great care - great care, believe me. And we’ll see what happens. Okay?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-speech-israel-palestine-in-full-benjamin-netanyahu-talks-two-state-solution-a7583421.html


That's from February! He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do.


MACS Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,584
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/dems-blast-trump-for-jerusalem-decision-despite-past-support.html

Anyone surprised that the dems supported this in the past, but since Trump actually did it, they blast him for it?

I'm not.
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Actually he stated that he was going to get this done.

Responding to questions about the notion of a two-state solution and whether the US embassy could be moved to Jerusalem, Mr Trump said:

So I’m looking at two-state and one-state, and I like the one that both parties like [laughter]. I’m very happy with the one that both parties like. I can live with either one.

I thought for a while the two-state looked like it may be the easier of the two. But honestly, if Bibi and if the Palestinians - if Israel and the Palestinians are happy, I’m happy with the one they like the best.

As far as the embassy moving to Jerusalem, I’d love to see that happen. We're looking at it very, very strongly. We're looking at it with great care - great care, believe me. And we’ll see what happens. Okay?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-speech-israel-palestine-in-full-benjamin-netanyahu-talks-two-state-solution-a7583421.html


That's from February! He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do.




Ohhhh nooooo!!!! campaign promises from February!
It's like you read neither my post nor the article I linked.

In June of 2017 Trump officially deferred the promised move (as has every other president, so I don't blame him at all).

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-signs-waiver-to-keep-us-embassy-in-tel-aviv/

And when doing so he stated:
Quote:
President Trump made this decision to maximize the chances of successfully negotiating a deal between Israel and the Palestinians, fulfilling his solemn obligation to defend America’s national security interests. But, as he has repeatedly stated his intention to move the embassy, the question is not if that move happens, but only when.


Which reinforces TW's question, simply asking if there is something that has been gained in making this decision.
He said he was going to hold off on the move until there was leverage to be had.
Now he makes the move.
A smart person would ask what prompted it.

Others would say "herp! derp! he's doing it because he promised to do it!" When in fact he actively deferred that specific decision intentionally, and commented on it.
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I'm not either...

They're prolly worried how they're gonna say no after they impeach Trump.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/dems-blast-trump-for-jerusalem-decision-despite-past-support.html

Anyone surprised that the dems supported this in the past, but since Trump actually did it, they blast him for it?

I'm not.


I've got nothing on this. If they're going to criticize him it should be for the inconsistencies in his decision making process and the instability that creates everywhere. They all voted for the resolution in June... they shouldn't criticize him for this specific act.
bgz Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I gave a reason, but nobody paid attention to it.

Destabilization is the goal.

Islam is dangerous... I'm sure our government knows this. Keep em in the virtual stone age until they advance. Keep the war machine fed.

Kill two birds with one stone.
xibbumbero Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
Some people not gonna be happy. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the chit doesn't hit the fan. X Think
delta1 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
He said he was gonna move the embassy, that they'll begin the process to establish an embassy in Jerusalem. He then signed another six-month waiver postponing the move, like the 4 Presidents did continuously before him...so he kinda fulfilled a campaign promise, then hedged on it...guess we'll see what happens in June 2018...
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
OK, I lied, I'm back in...but only to say that I have never met an American who did not consider Jerusalem to be the capital of Israel.
And I am 64 years old, so that's a decent sample size.

seemed obvious to me what city is the capital of Israel.

jjanecka Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Correct yourself, Frank. Jerusalem is the Capital of the World.
Buckwheat Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
bgz wrote:
I gave a reason, but nobody paid attention to it.

Destabilization is the goal.

Islam is dangerous... I'm sure our government knows this. Keep em in the virtual stone age until they advance. Keep the war machine fed.

Kill two birds with one stone.


Winning! MAGA! As long it's not you or your family that is getting killed it's all good. horse
frankj1 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
Correct yourself, Frank. Jerusalem is the Capital of 3 of the World's largest religions.

fify
bgz Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Buckwheat wrote:
Winning! MAGA! As long it's not you or your family that is getting killed it's all good. horse


Every president that I can personally remember meddled in the middle east.

I'm not the war monger, I just call it as I see it :P
opelmanta1900 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:
OK, I lied, I'm back in...but only to say that I have never met an American who did not consider Jerusalem to be the capital of Israel.
And I am 64 years old, so that's a decent sample size.

seemed obvious to me what city is the capital of Israel.




I could've sworn it was Schenectady...
RMAN4443 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
teedubbya wrote:
1995 huh? Around then about the only promise I made was just the tip.

was that a real promise, or just the result of........... er, limited reach??????Anxious
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
or stomach/fulcrum type issues... but not back then
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I hung in Schenectady for a few days once... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
MACS wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/06/dems-blast-trump-for-jerusalem-decision-despite-past-support.html

Anyone surprised that the dems supported this in the past, but since Trump actually did it, they blast him for it?

I'm not.

As I've said before, Trump could find the cure for cancer TODAY, and some people would slam him because the cure wasn't found YESTERDAY.....Think
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I blew a well hung Schenectady for a few days once... Mellow



freak
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
RMAN4443 wrote:
As I've said before, Trump could find the cure for cancer TODAY, and some people would slam him because the cure wasn't found YESTERDAY.....Think



or he could shoot someone in times square on film, or grab pvzzy because he is a star and people would support him

same coin different side
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Mad
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm sorry
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Always gotta gay me up... Sad
teedubbya Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Always gotta gay me up... Sad



but you are still dreamy. you've got that going for you.
delta1 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
If Trump finds a cure for cancer, I would take back all the mean things I've said about him.

Pray
bgz Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Is that like Al Gore inventing the internets?

Edit:

Oh, there's this :)

https://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

This just shows how bias these guys are.
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