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Tax Windfall!
dstieger Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Just ran some round numbers through online calculator. Our federal tax burden drops by almost $1100. That's a whopping $39 each and every single payday!!! Whoopee...two extra Punch Punch per week

I'm actually quite grateful to have dodged the alimony bullet. Grandfathering that one saves me from a tax INCREASE of at least 3K per year.

There are still questions about how they mucked up the pass through and what that will do some of the wife's personal business income, but hoping that will be negligible change.


BTW, how the fluk did they NOT eliminate the carried interest deduction????? Didn't Trump campaign on that one, specifically?
Buckwheat Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Got a link to the calculator?
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
There's lots out there. I used one at Fox Business, but I'd guessing that your computer may block that one :)
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't know if the Fox one is really reliable. They may have fixed it since originally putting it up, but apparently on first release there was no information on the tax plan and their tool was saying everyone saved money.


I can tell you I'm losing $2k right off the bat on the double taxation for State and Local taxes in the "we hate people who didn't vote for us" section of the tax plan.

But seriously.... this is all a pittance. They're throwing crumbs at us (or taking crumbs in my case) to allow the people at the top 1% to eat the whole pie.
Buckwheat Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
dstieger wrote:
There's lots out there. I used one at Fox Business, but I'd guessing that your computer may block that one :)


You a funny guy. I suspect that we will have to pay less taxes going forward because a fair amount of our income is from pass-through from my company and stock dividends. I still don't care for this bill because of the anticipated increase to the national debt. fog
delta1 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
dstieger wrote:
There's lots out there. I used one at Fox Business, but I'd guessing that your computer may block that one :)



Applause

Brick wall
delta1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
I found this one, and used it. Wow...I'll get a few thousand more...then I noticed it was the Alabama calculator.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/tax_calculator_figure_what_tru.html


Hey Burner02, there any decent homes for sale in your neighborhood?
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'll preempt the inevitable. You can decline it or send it back.




(that ignores the very fact that it is a drop in the bucket and as such individually amounts to nothing but if you collected them all......)
dstieger Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Buckwheat wrote:
You a funny guy. I suspect that we will have to pay less taxes going forward because a fair amount of our income is from pass-through from my company and stock dividends. I still don't care for this bill because of the anticipated increase to the national debt. fog



I'm not sure how I feel about the impact on the deficit. I was a deficit hawk for a long time, but it's apparent that these jokers in this town are clever enough to kick this down the road far enough that my kids are probably safe from it..and probably grandkids, too. The ceiling may not cave in before global warming induced floods or Fatty Fat induced nuclear holocaust. National debt isn't keeping me up at night lately.

I'm more concerned that:

-this is being sold as something revolutionary and Reagan-esque - when in reality is is a couple cigars a month and maybe an extra trip to Cracker Barrel...it's ok for what it is, but stop the spin and just call it the Corporate Tax Cut

-that they didn't touch the hedge/real estate investment loophole

-that they never even tried to bring a single Dem into talks....granted, this might not have been possible in today's climate, but had they taken a little more time and actually tried to get something just a little bipartisan, they'd have gotten more political capital, even if at the expense of some of the blind-faith-base

-that while there's some cuts and changes, there wasn't ever any real stomach for anything resembling 'overhaul'. Start from scratch without any deductions and work from there. Loopholes all derive from deductions and credits - start with a blank page and create new, clean definitions for deductions that you want to carve out

-that they won't quit putting unrelated **** into tax and spend bills.....wtf does Alaska oil have to do with federal income taxes???

-that by the end of last week nearly every R could say with a straight face "don't worry about that deficit part; growth is going wipe that out"...like they actually fn believed it after saying it enough times...we are not ever going to have 7% growth and every fn one of them knows it
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yours is temporary (now why is that?), theirs is permanent (now why is that?). Raising the cost to do business in Puerto Rico is permanent as well.
dstieger Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
Yours is temporary (now why is that?), theirs is permanent (now why is that?). Raising the cost to do business in Puerto Rico is permanent as well.


That's sorta asinine dem spin, though, really....wtf is permanent? they can change the corp level with legislation 5 times between now and 2025....its a silly discussion....can you imagine a Congress of any flavor that would let it all simply revert when the time comes?
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Hmmmmm. I looked at the one Dailykos had and it said my tax burden would quadruple, I'd be required to donate to a church, I couldn't get an abortion (no gender assignment here thank you) and I'd have to grow a Hitler mustache.
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
That's sorta asinine dem spin, though, really....wtf is permanent? they can change the corp level with legislation 5 times between now and 2025....its a silly discussion....can you imagine a Congress of any flavor that would let it all simply revert when the time comes?




You certainly can change anything in the future, but what we have now is what we have now. One sunsets the other does not. If no further action is taken that is the fact. It's harder for these idiots to take action than not to. That's the intent.

Why didn't they make both permanent or both sunset? (and yes I get the budgeting nuance)
delta1 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
ZRX1200 wrote:
Hmmmmm. I looked at the one Dailykos had and it said my tax burden would quadruple, I'd be required to donate to a church, I couldn't get an abortion (no gender assignment here thank you) and I'd have to grow a Hitler mustache.



Wai ... what?#!? You aint sportin one now?
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
Hmmmmm. I looked at the one Dailykos had and it said my tax burden would quadruple, I'd be required to donate to a church, I couldn't get an abortion (no gender assignment here thank you) and I'd have to grow a Hitler mustache.



I'm goin for the assignment and mustache. The excuse not to donate is ok with me. Imma gonna just choose not to work.
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
delta1 wrote:
Wai ... what?#!? You aint sportin one now?



I'm sportin one. A raging one.
ZRX1200 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
This thread is a big let down.

I shaved my balls this morning expecting better.
delta1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
damn dude...them pubes are looking puny without all that bush...
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
This thread is a big let down.

I shaved my balls this morning expecting better.



I hope you shaved them bald.... last time when you only cut the curl off you almost poked drafters eyes out
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
He really wanted those Arabian sunglasses.
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
poor X
jjanecka Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
I'm all for it. The tax plan, not Drafters homo shenanigans...
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Mad
ZRX1200 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Drafter isn't gay, our balls never touched.
JadeRose Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
ZRX1200 wrote:
Drafter isn't gay, our balls never touched.




not even his chin?
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about the impact on the deficit. I was a deficit hawk for a long time, but it's apparent that these jokers in this town are clever enough to kick this down the road far enough that my kids are probably safe from it..and probably grandkids, too. The ceiling may not cave in before global warming induced floods or Fatty Fat induced nuclear holocaust. National debt isn't keeping me up at night lately.

I'm more concerned that:

-this is being sold as something revolutionary and Reagan-esque - when in reality is is a couple cigars a month and maybe an extra trip to Cracker Barrel...it's ok for what it is, but stop the spin and just call it the Corporate Tax Cut

-that they didn't touch the hedge/real estate investment loophole

-that they never even tried to bring a single Dem into talks....granted, this might not have been possible in today's climate, but had they taken a little more time and actually tried to get something just a little bipartisan, they'd have gotten more political capital, even if at the expense of some of the blind-faith-base

-that while there's some cuts and changes, there wasn't ever any real stomach for anything resembling 'overhaul'. Start from scratch without any deductions and work from there. Loopholes all derive from deductions and credits - start with a blank page and create new, clean definitions for deductions that you want to carve out

-that they won't quit putting unrelated **** into tax and spend bills.....wtf does Alaska oil have to do with federal income taxes???

-that by the end of last week nearly every R could say with a straight face "don't worry about that deficit part; growth is going wipe that out"...like they actually fn believed it after saying it enough times...we are not ever going to have 7% growth and every fn one of them knows it


This seems about right.

They reduced some taxes (raised tham in my case). Yay. It wasn't some enormous ground breaking tax overhaul that turned our april 15 into a 1 page endeavor.

I'm not even mad about paying more taxes. A couple grand here or there is the cost of being alive. That won't even cover a month of rent.

But they're pretending they gave all americans the greatest gift since bacon. They gave the corporations bacon. They gave us the opportunity to lick the pan afterwards (but only until that sunsets.. then we can only look at the pan).
Phil222 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I haven't looked into this tax bill very deeply but my $1,000 savings minus a 10% increase in my insurance premiums from the ACA mandate repeal = maybe a few hundred bucks??

How much are the oligarchs getting again? A trillion plus to the deficit on top of that....fog

Is the tax relief for us not temporary and permanent for the ultra-rich?

Sounds like we got table scraps.
frankj1 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
good time to see Trump's recent tax returns and the projected tax returns...and the savings that a miniscule number of Americans will realize from the inheritance changes that will serve his heirs quite well.
That was a big win for America! HA!
Mr. Jones Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Warren Buffet GETS A 17% TAX CUT IN THIS PLAN....
SOMETHING LIKE $600K back in his pocket on a $19 million a year income...

He was on NPR with Judy Woodruff....

Laughing his azz off at this tax reduction bill "for the top 1%"
...he always does his interviews in one of his furniture store chains that he owns all over the Midwest...

He is a SMAAAART GUY...

YOU NEVER SEE ANY OF HIS SECURITY DETAIL...
HE NEVER LETS THEM GET RECORDED ON ANY INTERVIEW
OR VIDEO STORY...
IT IS ALWAYS AN UNKNOWN ENTITY...
YOU DONT KNOW WHO THEY ARE...
LIKE I SAID...

HE
IS
ONE
SMART
P.H.U.Q.
ZRX1200 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Phillis, you got that 2.5k $ saving from Bummies ACA though right?

LMMFAOAY
Phil222 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
ZRX1200 wrote:
Phillis, you got that 2.5k $ saving from Bummies ACA though right?


I'm not sure what you're talking about. What 2.5k?

Edit: Maybe I'm confused here. I'm under the impression that insurance rates will rise across the board from the mandate repeal. Is this not correct? Or will the increase only be for those who use the government exchanges like Obamacare?
Phil222 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
frankj1 wrote:
good time to see Trump's recent tax returns


I think the auditors are still reviewing them...any day now.
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
how about the pass throughs?
yuuuuge benefit for average earners.
Mr. Jones Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
^^^ #33 "How about Judy Woodruffs champagners....
Hangin' decent in her 70's with Warren takin' peaks from a higher vantaged piece of furniture on the floor of his Midwest furniture Store....
towards the end of the interview Warren leaned over and twisted Judy's nip and requested DUALAGE with her and Leslie Stahl on the freight elevator..."
cacman Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Phil222 wrote:
I'm not sure what you're talking about. What 2.5k?

Edit: Maybe I'm confused here. I'm under the impression that insurance rates will rise across the board from the mandate repeal. Is this not correct? Or will the increase only be for those who use the government exchanges like Obamacare?

The 2.5k Z is talking about is the promise Obama made everyone would save on their insurance. It was around the same time the Big O said if you like your doctor you can keep it.


Insurance rates have increased by double-digits with Obamacare year after year. How soon many forget the double-digit rate increases of 2017:
http://time.com/money/4535394/obamacare-plan-premium-price-increases-2017-states/

In CO alone, 2018 insurance rates where expected to increase over 25% back in October, long before any mention of the mandate repeal.
Phil222 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Thank you for clearing that up. I guess the moral of the story is that Obama let us down so we shouldn't be upset if Trump does the same? Something to that extent?

You do make a decent enough point about rising healthcare costs though. Even though some of these insurance companies are already making billions in profit, maybe now with these historic tax cuts they can finally afford to cut our rates a bit.

I believe that's how trickle-down economics work, right? Or maybe they're gonna offer us all a job? I forget exactly how it works but I'm sure it's gonna benefit us all somehow... Cool
cacman Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Phil222 wrote:
I believe that's how trickle-down economics work, right? Or maybe they're gonna offer us all a job? I forget exactly how it works but I'm sure it's gonna benefit us all somehow... Cool

You're referring to bonuses, pay raises, and companies increasing their minimum pay rate:

AT&T, Comcast, Wells Fargo promise bonuses or pay hikes once tax cut bill passes
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/12/20/handful-companies-promise-bonuses-pay-raises/971199001/
Phil222 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
cacman wrote:
You're referring to bonuses, pay raises, and companies increasing their minimum pay rate:

AT&T, Comcast, Wells Fargo promise bonuses or pay hikes once tax cut bill passes
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/12/20/handful-companies-promise-bonuses-pay-raises/971199001/


ThumpUp I had a feeling this would be coming. I guess that's a couple hundred thousand down, a couple hundred million to go, right?

I do appluad them for the effort but wonder how many others will follow suit? I also wonder what percentage these bonuses and raises are of the money they will be gaining from this tax bill? Is it even half a percent? Nonetheless, well done. We should have just given the employees the money to begin with.

By the way, didn't Wells Fargo just defraud the American public out of a couple hundred million dollars? They definately deserved this tax cut...same for Wall Street and all of the other companies we bailed out not long ago...have they paid that back yet? I'm not sure.

How come when the government takes money from us it's called theft, but when the government takes that same money and gives it to corporations its called...what? An investment?
MACS Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
Buckwheat wrote:
You a funny guy. I suspect that we will have to pay less taxes going forward because a fair amount of our income is from pass-through from my company and stock dividends. I still don't care for this bill because of the anticipated increase to the national debt. fog


Why do people focus on taxes to pay down the debt? Why doesn't anyone focus on cutting spending??

Trump/Haley just announced a $285 million cut to the UN contributions. GOOD!!

Now we need to look at other places to save in the SPENDING part of our budget. Better ROI on what we spend... change the way they do gov't/military contracts... there's plenty of fat to be trimmed.
ZRX1200 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsfaq/fs_gifts_to_govt.htm
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
You think Rosie knows about that site..?? She's offered 2 senators a couple million each to vote no.. she should just make a contribution to da debt instead... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
dstieger wrote:
-that they never even tried to bring a single Dem into talks....granted, this might not have been possible in today's climate, but had they taken a little more time and actually tried to get something just a little bipartisan, they'd have gotten more political capital, even if at the expense of some of the blind-faith-base



They took their marching orders from Nancy and Schumer. How that fares for them...they should've kept their powder dry. Instead...it gave the GOP another win. When Reagan did the same thing, He took every state BUT MN in his reelection bid. Pretty sad not a one of them...couldn't get in there and make this a better bill. Obstructionist to the core.
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea this bill is the Democrats fault. Had they tried more it would have been better.

I think it’s a smart bill. Give folks some coin during the time they will be voting for you to have it automatically taken away following. It recognizes that in politics memory and vision are short.

I honestly think this was a good move by the republicans and mainstream media has it wrong....again
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Fox News is Fair and Balanced... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Should have cut personal taxes further and permanently and tackled spending as well.

But I guess some extra money in my pocket is better than none.
frankj1 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
gummy jones wrote:
Should have cut personal taxes further and permanently and tackled spending as well.

But I guess some extra money in my pocket is better than none.

it was your money to begin with
gummy jones Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Yet every time I keep it they throw me in jail
frankj1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
good point
dstieger Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Apparently, there's still a chance the 'carried interest' loophole could be closed by the administration....without trying to get the swamp denizens to write another change to tax law (and bite the Wall St hands that are feeding them.)

Since Trump seems to be pretty good at trying to keep his campaign promises, I'm hopeful that he (and Mnuchin and co.) will get it done. Won't make me entirely happy with the tax bill, but it might make it a little more palatable.
HockeyDad Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
I'm still not sure if my taxes went up or down as a result of this bill. If they went up, I will vote for California to secede, I will become a Democrat, and I will eat quinoa.

Either way, taxation is theft.
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