America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by victor809. 366 replies replies.
8 Pages<12345678>
The Schumer Shutdown...
tailgater Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:


Dude, stop playing the freaking blame game. You want total exoneration? Me too!


This is in response to my post where I clearly stated:
Republican.
Democrat.
Independent.
I simply don't care.

Blame game?

I'm calling out EVERYONE based on their self serving vote.

If that's a blame game, then yes. Guilty as charged.
Gene363 Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,680
"DACA" Democrats Against Citizens of America
tailgater Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DACA "kids".

The problem with keeping them here is that pesky thing called laws.
They came here, or were brought here illegally.
This isn't opinion.

Twisting our laws and providing a mini-amnesty sends the wrong message. It entices future families to break our immigration laws. It gives hope to law breakers rather than to hard working, law abiding people.
We're saying: Sorry. I know you were in line to enter our country legally, but this family who broke the law was here first.

Not many discussions and debates have such a clear set of facts.
We can discuss how they (DACA) impact our economy, good versus bad.
But there is no opposing details on whether these "kids" belong here.

Calling them "dreamers" and "children" is proof positive that their supporters are liars.
Face it: even middle aged thugs who rob, steal and cheat could be called "dreamers". What an f'ing joke.
And why call them kids or children? Because that wins support from those who literally don't know the facts.

From reliable sources, those who make up the bulk of DACA are good people.
But here's the thing:
Even good people have to be held accountable for our laws.

If you want to fast-track them through an immigration process, then do it. Make a plan.
Obama didn't.
His plan was to fund them and it was set to expire AFTER he left office.
The first "D" stands for "Deferred" for crying out loud.

THAT'S kicking the can down the road. And our elected officials are 100% guilty.





Gene363 Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,680
^^^ Yup.

If parents sneak into Disneyland do the kids get free passes?
HuckFinn Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
This is in response to my post where I clearly stated:
Republican.
Democrat.
Independent.
I simply don't care.

Blame game?

I'm calling out EVERYONE based on their self serving vote.

If that's a blame game, then yes. Guilty as charged.

You're right. Guess I didn't read your whole post. Imagine that.
delta1 Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
During the last shutdown in 2013, the cons said it was justified because the GOP led Congress was just doing the will of the people, since a majority were opposed to Obamacare (not really - just a majority of cons...CBS poll at the time showed 46% opposed Obamacare then)...


now they are blaming the Dems, even though the cons still have a GOP controlled Congress...yet the Dems are doing the work for a majority (a real majority, just like the real majority who didn't vote for Trump)...


Think

Brick wall

GOP wasn't hurt by the 2013 shutdown...nor will they be this time around...unless it goes on for more than just two weeks...

GOP = Government Opposed to the People
HuckFinn Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Additionally, approximately 85% of Americans support DACA

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/



59% of Americans are opposed to the wall. Even more believe that if it's built WE are the ones who are going to pay for it

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Americans-support-the-building-of-a-wall-along-the-U-S-Mexican-border
delta1 Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
The key GOP voters, the ones who really matter to the GOP politicians, those wealthy donors who got the lion's share of the goods from the tax bill, will not be affected by the shutdown...

it's the average American tax-payers, those who work for the federal government, or citizens who rely on the federal government for some form of goods or services, who will be hurt...but they don't really matter except in election cycles...
banderl Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
HuckFinn wrote:
Additionally, approximately 85% of Americans support DACA

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/



59% of Americans are opposed to the wall. Even more believe that if it's built WE are the ones who are going to pay for it

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Americans-support-the-building-of-a-wall-along-the-U-S-Mexican-border



But MEXICO is going to pay for the wall.
HuckFinn Offline
#160 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
banderl wrote:
But MEXICO is going to pay for the wall.

New Mexico
DrafterX Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
How many peoples have died so far..?? I'm feeling a little guilty sitting in da pedicure chair right now... I wonder if I can get a pizza delivered.... Think
DrMaddVibe Offline
#162 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
Speyside wrote:
^No, he is pointing out the hypocrisy of those here crying about Trump being picked on. But as usual the denying is deep. You picked on Obama daily. But now you say we didn't do that to Obama.



Go back and read the threads. My stance is EXACTLY the same.

I don't get the"hypocrisy" you claim.

He cried about the shutdowns then...he's crying about them now. Nothing to it except a different President.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
HuckFinn wrote:
Additionally, approximately 85% of Americans support DACA

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-support-daca-but-oppose-border-wall-cbs-news-poll/



59% of Americans are opposed to the wall. Even more believe that if it's built WE are the ones who are going to pay for it

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-Americans-support-the-building-of-a-wall-along-the-U-S-Mexican-border



Ima let you finish and all BUT...98.2% of all statistical references are made up.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
delta1 wrote:
The key GOP voters, the ones who really matter to the GOP politicians, those wealthy donors who got the lion's share of the goods from the tax bill, will not be affected by the shutdown...

it's the average American tax-payers, those who work for the federal government, or citizens who rely on the federal government for some form of goods or services, who will be hurt...but they don't really matter except in election cycles...



What??

With the backpay? The free vacation? The average Federal worker makes more than the open market and do less to begin with.

Shut it all down. We'll see what's really worth keeping real fast. Eliminate the "fat" then and move forward, but those expectations are way too advanced for the Democrats or the majority of the GOP.

https://conventionofstates.com/

End the insanity. Ron Paul was correct...audit the Federal Reserve. The Federal usurpers have lead an entitled existence. They've yoked the future generations with their debt. Its time to get real.

Let the Kabuki Theater play out. It's only going to hurt the Democrats who feel they HAVE to have DACA. When they would rather fund illegal aliens that have come here and stayed here without bothering to register for citizenship and feel they need citizenship, well that goes against what they stand for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=728SW65tlU0

Reconcile it for me please.
HuckFinn Offline
#165 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Ima let you finish and all BUT...98.2% of all statistical references are made up.

Even when they support your POV? Fair nuff.
Btw, Did you ever pass science?


Search: percentage of Americans that support DACA.
Better yet, fire up another j

DrMaddVibe Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
HuckFinn wrote:
Even when they support your POV? Fair nuff.
Btw, Did you ever pass science?


Search: percentage of Americans that support DACA.
Better yet, fire up another j




The above YouTube has Chuckie not supporting DACA...your point is what?
HuckFinn Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrMaddVibe wrote:
The above YouTube has Chuckie not supporting DACA...your point is what?

You mean...from 9-15-17?
https://youtu.be/eOfTKjESslw
..where's he's trying to avoid the deportation of almost 800,000.
800,000 people. Not rhetoric here. People.
That's gonna be ugly.
Let's agree (?) that we hope the Senate works this out soon?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
HuckFinn wrote:
You mean...from 9-15-17?
https://youtu.be/eOfTKjESslw
..where's he's trying to avoid the deportation of almost 800,000.
800,000 people. Not rhetoric here. People.
That's gonna be ugly.
Let's agree (?) that we hope the Senate works this out soon?


No...I don't agree. Let the Democrats slither back to the table begging. They created this mess by trying to negotiate DACA into the Federal budget!

If you cannot follow the rules there's no reward. We have a perfect pathway for citizenship. No shortcuts. EVER.

When are Democrats actually able to follow the laws?
HuckFinn Offline
#169 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrMaddVibe wrote:
No...I don't agree. Let the Democrats slither back to the table begging. They created this mess by trying to negotiate DACA into the Federal budget!

If you cannot follow the rules there's no reward. We have a perfect pathway for citizenship. No shortcuts. EVER.

When are Democrats actually able to follow the laws?

You have really strong opinions for someone so ill-informed.
Not sure talking to you is not better spent washing my wife's car.
Support for allowing these immigrants to remain in the U.S. spans across party lines: 84 percent of Democrats, 74 percent of independents and 69 percent of Republicans think they should stay.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/05/poll-trump-deporting-daca-dreamers-242343

You even know what DACA is?
Oh that's right, you don't care or something.
I'm tired of talking to you doc.
Tired of trying to find middle ground with people who still believe the earth is flat.
DrafterX Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
That's not anything new... Nobody wants them deported... But this has got to stop... And the immigration issue shouldn't be tied to the budget.. this shutdown falls entirely on Schumer & Pelosi.. Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
That's not anything new... Nobody wants them deported... But this has got to stop... And the immigration issue shouldn't be tied to the budget.. this shutdown falls entirely on Schumer & Pelosi.. Mellow

Nope. It's mostly Trump's fault. Even republicans will tell you that. They had a deal. Last week Trump listened to some advice du jous of Kelly's and...shutdown.
Trump said back in November that a shutdown would be a GOOD THING.
Did he change his mind?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
If they're here illegally....DEPORT THEM!

If you break the laws...theres no free pass.

I had to laugh at one guy that's been here for more than 10 years being deported. Like he couldn't find the time to fill out paperwork? GTFO.

I don't know why it's that hard to understand. If they break rules to get here...they're most likely not going to obey any other laws.
frankj1 Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If they're here illegally....DEPORT THEM!

If you break the laws...theres no free pass.

I had to laugh at one guy that's been here for more than 10 years being deported. Like he couldn't find the time to fill out paperwork? GTFO.

I don't know why it's that hard to understand. If they break rules to get here...they're most likely not going to obey any other laws.


you really don't know the info about the 800,000 who signed up, do you?
DrafterX Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
How do we know for sure all of them really came over as small children..??Think
teedubbya Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea some could have been large children
DrafterX Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Just asking... They coulda been here a week and signed up... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
How do we know for sure all of them really came over as small children..??Think

I'm not gonna research it again, but by memory I seem to recall the cut off was children up to 16 years old, give or take a year or two, who signed up.

won't change any minds, and I don't care about that here, but they really have done very well over all...better than their peers born here.

I can't explain away that they did not enter legally, but I guess I sometimes see gray when others only see black or white. Or at least black or white when it matters to them.

Such is life...
frankj1 Offline
#178 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
other conditions were attached...had to stay in school and/or join the military and/or be employed and a tax payer, etc. to qualify for this deferred list.
frankj1 Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I think.

so don't quote me.
frankj1 Offline
#180 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
the majority were under 10 when brought here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals
DrafterX Offline
#181 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Well, lets deport the parents and make the kids apply for work visas and citizenship the right way.. seems fair... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
Well, lets deport the parents and make the kids apply for work visas and citizenship the right way.. seems fair... Mellow

or something like that...see, that's what negotiating is all about. Then you go have beers together.
DrafterX Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Beer
DrafterX Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
But we can't just give them a free pass... They need to earn their citizenship... Otherwise they'll be begging for fish the rest of their lives...Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#185 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
frankj1 wrote:
or something like that...see, that's what negotiating is all about. Then you go have beers together.

or drink first and negotiate later.
frankj1 Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
But we can't just give them a free pass... They need to earn their citizenship... Otherwise they'll be begging for fish the rest of their lives...Mellow

I had fish and chips tonight!
substituted Onion rings for fries though.
DrafterX Offline
#187 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I could sure use a fish and chips about now... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#188 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I'm full.
delta1 Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
I think the empathy for DACA is because they don't quite fit the "illegal" definition in a sense. We Americans tend to equate criminality/illegality with a specific intent to do the crime. With the DACA immigrants, they were minors (below the age at which they can be legally charged with intent to commit a crime) when they came across. They also did not come on their own volition: they were dragged in by their parents or other adults. So, they didn't have the intent to be illegal...and most have made the best of it...
bs_kwaj Offline
#190 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214
The Knights who say Nit...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2qME1-9hY2Y/V50IxjIUJcI/AAAAAAABzQI/x0EzDRh2WZEfI3erhRhJsU6aH-SKWETBgCLcB/s1600/Originalni.jpg

Beer
Buckwheat Offline
#191 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
“A shutdown falls on the President’s lack of leadership. He can’t even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak”

-Donald Trump 2013 fog
DrafterX Offline
#192 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
He was just kiddin... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#193 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HuckFinn wrote:
or drink first and negotiate later.

could work.
frankj1 Offline
#194 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
delta1 wrote:
I think the empathy for DACA is because they don't quite fit the "illegal" definition in a sense. We Americans tend to equate criminality/illegality with a specific intent to do the crime. With the DACA immigrants, they were minors (below the age at which they can be legally charged with intent to commit a crime) when they came across. They also did not come on their own volition: they were dragged in by their parents or other adults. So, they didn't have the intent to be illegal...and most have made the best of it...

there's that "gray" I referenced somewhere about DACA yesterday. This is the best example of why we negotiate.
TMCTLT Offline
#195 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
DrMaddVibe wrote:
No...I don't agree. Let the Democrats slither back to the table begging. They created this mess by trying to negotiate DACA into the Federal budget!

If you cannot follow the rules there's no reward. We have a perfect pathway for citizenship. No shortcuts. EVER.

When are Democrats actually able to follow the laws?




Well stated...Beer




frankj1 wrote:
the majority were under 10 when brought here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_Action_for_Childhood_Arrivals




Doesn't matter....It simply DOES NOT MATTER, NOT our problemo that their parents are Law Breakers. How many children born and raised here fall subject to the fallout of their parents breaking the law? Every damn one of them unless in a wealthy family...we as Americans do NOT owe them anything other than a ticket home.
Wanna be upset with someone...blame their parents. My heart simply doesn't bleed for them.
HuckFinn Offline
#196 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If they're here illegally....DEPORT THEM!

If you break the laws...theres no free pass.

I had to laugh at one guy that's been here for more than 10 years being deported. Like he couldn't find the time to fill out paperwork? GTFO.

I don't know why it's that hard to understand. If they break rules to get here...they're most likely not going to obey any other laws.

From the American Immigration Council, good read...

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/did-my-family-really-come-legally-todays-immigration-laws-created-a-new-reality

Many people assume that their family immigrated to the United States legally, or did it “the right way.” In most cases, this statement does not reflect the fact that the U.S. immigration system was very different in the past and that their families might not have been allowed to enter had today’s laws been in effect. When many families arrived in the United States, there were no numerical limitations on immigration, no requirements to have an existing family or employment relationship with someone in the country, and no requirement to obtain a visa prior to arriving. The definition of who is “legal”—and who is not—changes with the evolution of immigration laws. In some cases, claiming that a family came “legally” is simply inaccurate—unauthorized immigration has been a reality for generations.
TMCTLT Offline
#197 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HuckFinn wrote:
From the American Immigration Council, good read...

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/did-my-family-really-come-legally-todays-immigration-laws-created-a-new-reality

Many people assume that their family immigrated to the United States legally, or did it “the right way.” In most cases, this statement does not reflect the fact that the U.S. immigration system was very different in the past and that their families might not have been allowed to enter had today’s laws been in effect. When many families arrived in the United States, there were no numerical limitations on immigration, no requirements to have an existing family or employment relationship with someone in the country, and no requirement to obtain a visa prior to arriving. The definition of who is “legal”—and who is not—changes with the evolution of immigration laws. In some cases, claiming that a family came “legally” is simply inaccurate—unauthorized immigration has been a reality for generations.




The American Immigration Council, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, is a powerful voice in promoting laws, policies, and attitudes that honor our proud history as a nation of immigrants. Through research and policy analysis, litigation and communications, and international exchange, the Council seeks to shape a twenty-first century vision of the American immigrant experience.
HuckFinn Offline
#198 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Same article:
Many of our ancestors would not have qualified under today’s immigration laws.
DrafterX Offline
#199 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Legal a hundred years ago doesn't make you illegal today... Bad argument... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#200 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Ya but they have a great name. Can't be a bunch of partisan hacks that poorly hide their agenda in their "research." I mean southern poverty law center, American civil liberties union, etc are equal opportunity folks right?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
8 Pages<12345678>