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Last post 6 years ago by victor809. 366 replies replies.
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The Schumer Shutdown...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#251 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
DrafterX wrote:
Huck's losing it... Laugh



POS never had it...just $hit. That's all he has.
victor809 Offline
#252 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
As for the traffic voliolation...
There are a number of people on this forum who have bragged about asking friends to let them off the hook.
I believe just recently someone bragged about having an annual police BBQ and how they don't get any moving infractions because of it.

The members of this forum have historically bought and sold and traded Cuban cigars which is probably the same level of crime in the books.... there is little concern for what the "law" is as long as it is convenient. But someone in this country who's not supposed to be? Suddenly the law is super important.

I'm not particularly vested in these DACA people. But I dislike poor arguments.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#253 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,309
I thought you didn't like poor people?
victor809 Offline
#254 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Why would I have to like poor people for any of my statements to be accurate?
delta1 Offline
#255 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Looks like I misread the federal law on illegal entry, looking only at the civil penalties. There are criminal penalties, as victor points out, that call for up to 6 months imprisonment, which makes illegal entry a misdemeanor.

Not arguing that it isn't a crime, I'm just not going so far as to lump most undocumented with rapists and murderers...

Growing up in California, we have become accustomed to two of our primary businesses practically begging local law enforcement to turn a blind eye to illegals because they are the backbone of CA Agra's and CA Tourism's labor pool...both industries consistently say that the illegals are not taking jobs away from Americans, because most Americans who start those jobs usually quit by the end of the next day or so...

I've lived with illegal immigration not being a big deal my whole life, so I guess I'm biased in the direction of ....YAWN... I remember the last time that the issue of immigration became a national issue and was very nearly resolved...President Reagan, the one much beloved by the cons as their greatest President ever, a Californian, proposed an amnesty of sorts...and the talking stopped...
HuckFinn Offline
#256 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
dstieger wrote:
delta, huck, vic.....

I'm perplexed....seems to be a lot of words/effort to suggest that sneaking into the country without permission is no big deal....is that your point?

If so, I seriously doubt that any sort of reasonable debate, or even conversation can result. There's such a fundamental difference between that sentiment and what I (and many here?) feel that we can't even begin any rational discussion.

I maintain that any sovereign nation (especially one as recognized by most other nations) has the right, if not the responsibility to manage the people allowed to enter....if you don't subscribe to that notion, I probably can't debate you

I get that. For me debating is a chance to research stuff and get out of my own head, mostly.

American Immigration policy has a pretty cruel and prejudicial history. Just ask the American Chinese population. Or Southern and Eastern Europeans.
Of course sovereign nations have a responsibility to protect their citizenry But when it's been convenient, we've historically turned a blind eye to illegals. Why? Because it benefitted us. Revenue. Laborers. Now we want what? Norwegians? BTW, Norway has cynically renamed itself Shiithole. Not kidding.

I don't want people getting over on us, stealing jobs and opportunities but here we are: these folks are here. Sure our borders need reinforcing as do our laws. Walls are expensive though, and dumb imo.
I'm just trying to look down the road at what it's gonna all look like when we're done.

America will figure it out.





dstieger Offline
#257 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Delta, It is not a big deal to me either. Truly. But it pizzes me off that so many on the left refuse to acknowledge the'illegality' of being here without legal permission....not talking about here so much...I expect illogical rants here...but I want better from my elected representatives and 'expert' commentators
dstieger Offline
#258 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I'm no happier with those on the right who misrepresent state of and effects of 'chain migration', or national security risks pissed by decent illegals
HuckFinn Offline
#259 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Phil222 wrote:
Is anyone else curious as to why being in this country illegally is equal to a parking violation? I wouldn't mind knowing the real answer to that question, but I already have my hypothesis.

If your parents were trying to escape poverty or tyranny or genocide and snuck in, would you'd be asking that same question?
There but for the grace of God go I.
Phil222 Offline
#260 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
#252 Fair enough. I get the law and order play. We all violate the law in some form. I would just add that a few parking tickets and cuban cigars doesn't cost us hundreds of billions annually and isn't really a threat to national security; unlike illegal immigration. It's hard for me to equate the two but I understand your point.
Phil222 Offline
#261 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
#259 I would be looking out for my families best interests. Same as now.
HuckFinn Offline
#262 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrMaddVibe wrote:
POS never had it...just $hit. That's all he has.

Silly rabbit
Phil222 Offline
#263 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
HuckFinn wrote:
I get that. For me debating is a chance to research stuff and get out of my own head, mostly.


Same here. I'm not actively trying to offend anyone here and hope that I don't come off that way. My opinions on political issues adapt over time as I learn new information. I enjoy discussing things because it gives me an oppurtunity to grow and learn when someone presents me with some new insight.
delta1 Offline
#264 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
dstieger wrote:
Delta, It is not a big deal to me either. Truly. But it pizzes me off that so many on the left refuse to acknowledge the'illegality' of being here without legal permission....not talking about here so much...I expect illogical rants here...but I want better from my elected representatives and 'expert' commentators



True...I think we can accomplish border security without an expensive and mostly useless wall (El Chapo showed that)...high technology detection equipment, including lots of aerial surveillance drones, coupled with a team of enforcers at key crossing points and on active patrol on land and in the air, would be a far less expensive and more efficient way to secure our border...the wall is largely symbolic, for those Americans frightened of immigrants and a finger at Latin America...

As for the illegal part, since there is a legitimate need for a large supply of labor, maybe a documented worker program can work...
victor809 Offline
#265 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Phil222 wrote:
Same here. I'm not actively trying to offend anyone here .



you'll get over that soon enough. Give it time.
delta1 Offline
#266 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
*chuckle*
Kawak Offline
#267 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Trump can't stop now. After ending DACA, Trump can push forward to investigate the following scandals:

✓ Awan Brothers
✓ Uranium One Clinton+Mueller+Podesta
✓ Seth Rich
✓ Hezbollah IranDeal @BarackObama
✓ Voter Fraud
✓ IRS Lois Lerner
✓ Dossier #ReleaseTheMemo FISA @FBI
✓ Abedin & Wienner emails
✓ Leaks @Comey
HuckFinn Offline
#268 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Dudes a quack head...
tailgater Offline
#269 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
you'll get over that soon enough. Give it time.


I know, right?

Friggin noobs.


tailgater Offline
#270 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
If your parents were trying to escape poverty or tyranny or genocide and snuck in, would you'd be asking that same question?
There but for the grace of God go I.



If you want to change the laws, petition your representative.

In the meantime, laws should mean something. We can't pick and choose.
Especially just because it "feels good".

Even reading your post makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. It's disgusting.
Your post. Not the throw up. that's actually pretty good. I had ribs yesterday.


HuckFinn Offline
#271 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
If you want to change the laws, petition your representative.

In the meantime, laws should mean something. We can't pick and choose.
Especially just because it "feels good".

Even reading your post makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. It's disgusting.
Your post. Not the throw up. that's actually pretty good. I had ribs yesterday.



You bore me.

tailgater Offline
#272 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
As for the traffic voliolation...
There are a number of people on this forum who have bragged about asking friends to let them off the hook.
I believe just recently someone bragged about having an annual police BBQ and how they don't get any moving infractions because of it.

The members of this forum have historically bought and sold and traded Cuban cigars which is probably the same level of crime in the books.... there is little concern for what the "law" is as long as it is convenient. But someone in this country who's not supposed to be? Suddenly the law is super important.

I'm not particularly vested in these DACA people. But I dislike poor arguments.


So an individual is given a break on a speeding ticket.
Therefore, let's open the borders.

Talk about poor arguments.


Everyone tries to get out of tickets. But when they fail, they gotta shrug and hope for better luck next time. Doesn't mean they want the laws removed from the books.

We either have laws, or we don't.

Anecdotal braggadocio doesn't define an issue.


frankj1 Offline
#273 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
If you want to change the laws, petition your representative.

In the meantime, laws should mean something.



so that's why they want to extend DACA?
Cool.
victor809 Offline
#274 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
So an individual is given a break on a speeding ticket.
Therefore, let's open the borders.

Talk about poor arguments.


Everyone tries to get out of tickets. But when they fail, they gotta shrug and hope for better luck next time. Doesn't mean they want the laws removed from the books.

We either have laws, or we don't.

Anecdotal braggadocio doesn't define an issue.




Not what I said and you know it.
illegally entering the country is a misdemeanor.
Everyone is super determined to point out the "illegal" part of illegal immigration.

But guess what. Same people brag about committing misdemeanors here.... from buying cubans, to reckless driving, to even the great drunk driving thread wars of whatever year that was. The bragging is about how they got away with it.

It's stupid. If they didn't use "it's illegal!!!" as the argument, I wouldn't bother bringing up the fact that they don't care about other times that matters. There are plenty of other rational arguments to use regarding not allowing illegal immigrants.

If you use a "keep it simple" (ie stupid) argument, then you have to ensure you haven't boiled it down to such a level of simplicity that is irrelevant.
Speyside Offline
#275 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Common sense would dictate that we need more immigrants than less. As boomers leave the work force faster than youngsters join it social security and Medicare are putting out more money and taking in less. Immigrants can fill this gap.
SteveS Offline
#276 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Speyside wrote:
Common sense would dictate that we need more immigrants than less. As boomers leave the work force faster than youngsters join it social security and Medicare are putting out more money and taking in less. Immigrants can fill this gap.


Immigrants are fine, no problem. ILLEGAL ALIENS on the other hand, we don't need ...
TMCTLT Offline
#277 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
DACA kids actually registered, that's how we know who they are specifically.

And I can't quote specific numbers, but these aren't the illegals costing money at all. The opposite is true.

An enormous percent have completed high school and beyond, served in OUR military, and have paid their full share of taxes.

I have a problem with children being considered criminals because of their parents, though I understand your feeling that illegal is illegal...but wouldn't you agree with me that these kids have grown up to be pretty much what we want immigrants to become in America? Positive forces, earning and paying their way and actually outperforming kids born here?
...............................Ummmmm NO. again there's no proof of what you say, and to use American kids born and raised here LEGALLY and saythese brats are outperforming them....again I say show me the proof. And why would they not want to go back to Mother Mexico and use that FREE edumication to improve THEIR country.


We know neither of us will change, but it's a good debate.


It is not a good debate, those of you who support this move think folks like myself are not compassionate....I am, but not to law breakers. Are the parents of these brats you'd like to see given protection from deportation citizens yet? I didn't see any stat on that one.....
TMCTLT Offline
#278 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
you really don't know the info about the 800,000 who signed up, do you?




Your confusing us with someone who actually cares about any info regarding the spawn of Law Breakers.
DrafterX Offline
#279 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
It may just be misdemeanor the first time but many have been deported and returned making them felons now... And it may not be a big deal if a couple dozen snuck in ever month or so... We're talking millions of people.. and many of them find their way into the system drawing the welfare, healthcare and even drivers licenses.. it won't be long until they are allowed to vote if we don't stop this... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#280 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HuckFinn wrote:
That's BS. You make a full stop at every stop sign? Ever smoke weed? Play some poker in someone's home for $? Use someone's wi-fi? Speed? Forget to put on your seatbelt? Lesse.
Pee outside? Nm...

It's when laws are broken that get too close to our fears or prejudices that we get all legal.
You waited until you were 18 to have your first beer? Nope. Cheers!



WOW....seriously??? Your gonna try to "guilt trip " us into thinking we're bad people too and should see those things being as bad as ENTERING ANOTHER COUNTRY ILLEGALLY

You cannot ake this sh*t up....

d'oh!
TMCTLT Offline
#281 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
DrafterX wrote:
It may just be misdemeanor the first time but many have been deported and returned making them felons now... And it may not be a big deal if a couple dozen snuck in ever month or so... We're talking millions of people.. and many of them find their way into the system drawing the welfare, healthcare and even drivers licenses.. it won't be long until they are allowed to vote if we don't stop this... Mellow




That's the really rich part Drafter....they don't have to " find their way " they ARE directed to every government office that has been purposely set up to recieve them and give them tax payer assistance. they just forgot to ask We The People....if we'd mind.
frankj1 Offline
#282 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
TMCTLT wrote:
That's the really rich part Drafter....they don't have to " find their way " they ARE directed to every government office that has been purposely set up to recieve them and give them tax payer assistance. they just forgot to ask We The People....if we'd mind.

i think the discussion has become mixed up due to folks not understanding there are two separate issues...DACA extension or not, and all other immigration reform.

Paul, I'm gonna combine a couple quotes and reply...

Actually, I personally know you have compassion. I know about you a little off the forum, and I am not talking about compassion as a bleeding heart way to deal with DACA.

Also, we would know if they are bleeding the system because they have agreed to register and have been followed. There are easy to find figures regarding how many have been disqualified from any protection and what they did or did not do to lose protection, how many have graduated at different levels of school, how many have served in the Armed Forces, how they have compared to kids born and raised here both scholastically and earnings-wise...and that the overall effect has been a gain in the economy, not a drain.

Other illegals hiding out of sight, well I agree we can't really know the stats.

If the issue for you is none of that matters cuz they came in wrong (albeit having no choice but to stay with parents) then that's how you feel.

To me, that's a good debate.
teedubbya Offline
#283 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That’s the difficult part about dealing with our government from the inside or out.

I’ve always wondered why our allies deal with us (other than we are rich and strong). We say one thing and promise something then a few years later we can do an about face and do the opposite. We can’t really be trusted. If I was another country dealing with us I wouldn’t trust us.

It’s like we built in a short term view rather than a long term strategic view. China may make us pay for this.

In the DACA case, of the illegals these are the ones trying to do it right. They agreed to cone out of the dark and register. But our legislators have let them down. Both parties. Their illegal buddies who didn’t trust the government and didn’t register are laughing at them.

Our government often doesn’t keep its word. There are examples of this throughout our history. I think we are the best country in the world but it’s one of the faults in our model.

I am for securing the boarder. I’m also for deporting illegals immediately when found. The draining of funds by illegals is overstated and bogus as stated in here which amuses me but I am for zero spending on them. Zero.

But this group did the right thing and I believe to be the unfortunate pawns in a game. These are not the ones hiding in the shadows nor the boogie man. They deserve to be treated with respect and yes compassion.

That’s why I’m for a path to permanent status if they do everything right. Not citizenship necessarily (haven’t made up my mind) but perminant status. I also think that’s why 80% of folks do

DrafterX Offline
#284 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Except for Victor.. he hates the illegals... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#285 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Psh... I heard that Victor guy hates everyone.

Signed,
Victor808
dstieger Offline
#286 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Not every day Victor tells you you're right. Raise a glass, X
HuckFinn Offline
#287 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
I love mankind… It's people I can't stand.
Charles M. Schulz
DrafterX Offline
#288 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya.. people suck... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#289 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I love peoples...go figure
DrafterX Offline
#290 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I love some peoples... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#291 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
yah, peoples as a concept are good...actual peoples smell bad...
RMAN4443 Offline
#292 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
delta1 wrote:
yah, peoples as a concept are good...actual peoples smell bad...

HR woman where I work smells NiceAnxious ........ooops, I can probably get in trouble for saying that......nevermindd'oh!
teedubbya Offline
#293 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
H.R. Puffinstuff?
RMAN4443 Offline
#294 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
teedubbya wrote:
H.R. Puffinstuff?

I'd say I wish she'd play my magic flute, but that would be wrongAnxious
HuckFinn Offline
#295 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Yeah, don't say it.
RMAN4443 Offline
#296 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
Yeah, don't say it.

I would never. ..Anxious
tailgater Offline
#297 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Not what I said and you know it.
illegally entering the country is a misdemeanor.
Everyone is super determined to point out the "illegal" part of illegal immigration.

But guess what. Same people brag about committing misdemeanors here.... from buying cubans, to reckless driving, to even the great drunk driving thread wars of whatever year that was. The bragging is about how they got away with it.

It's stupid. If they didn't use "it's illegal!!!" as the argument, I wouldn't bother bringing up the fact that they don't care about other times that matters. There are plenty of other rational arguments to use regarding not allowing illegal immigrants.

If you use a "keep it simple" (ie stupid) argument, then you have to ensure you haven't boiled it down to such a level of simplicity that is irrelevant.


First, I did think it was a felony, but you are right. It's a misdemeanor. Thank you.

With that said, you're confusing the issue.
People will always bend, twist or break laws. Especially "minor" ones.
But when they are caught, they pay the piper. that's all I'm saying here.
You seem to be arguing that we should ignore illegal entry because Jo-blo bought a cuban. It's a false argument. The two are separate. And each hold a penalty.
I just want it enforced.




DrafterX Offline
#298 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
It's a misdemeanor the first time... If they come back they are felons.. I'd bet way over half of the illegals are felons... How many do we deport everyday..?? Huh
HuckFinn Offline
#299 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
It's a misdemeanor the first time... If they come back they are felons.. I'd bet way over half of the illegals are felons.Huh

Bet ya 2 burrito
tailgater Offline
#300 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185

Burrito over taco?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.



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