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School shooting in Fl
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tailgater Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:45 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
North Korea had zero school shootings last year.
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:47 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
My daughter showed me a Snap Chat or Instagram video yesterday.
Filmed by a student during the attack.

Literally the most shocking thing I've ever seen/heard.
Ever.

It was from inside a classroom and the gunman was outside in the hall or maybe an adjacent room.
You could hear the rapid fire and you can literally feel the fear and tension.

I'm sure it's on google.
I won't be looking to see it again.
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
My daughter showed me a Snap Chat or Instagram video yesterday.
Filmed by a student during the attack.

Literally the most shocking thing I've ever seen/heard.
Ever.

It was from inside a classroom and the gunman was outside in the hall or maybe an adjacent room.
You could hear the rapid fire and you can literally feel the fear and tension.

I'm sure it's on google.
I won't be looking to see it again.





several have been on the news sites.

I was thinking about my mom last night after talking to her. Her health isn't good and she is up there in age (77 isn't that old but she's pretty sick). These things really bother her and I'd hate for it to be one of the last things on her mind when she passes. She never had to think about such things as a kid, I never had to think about such things as a kid, and my daughter had active shooter training and drills earlier this year.

sigh
Speyside Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I saw it too. The most disturbing thing I have ever seen. And I also will never watch it again.
HuckFinn Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
bgz wrote:
Those sources though. One of them was a blurb without any references, sources, or links to the original article with a forum attached. At least here on cbid we usually post a link to the original article. If you don't realize how trash your sources were, then that makes me question any other opinion you might have because I know you probably got your information from a similar source.




Dude, why do you hate video games? I'm way younger than most on this board, but I can tell you most people my age have played their share of Call of Duty or Battlefield at some point or another. That was like when your parents told your dinosaur azz that the hippy music was going to rot your brain. Maybe it did?



It is harmless. It's the equivalent of shooting some hoops, reading a book, or watching a movie. You should try one some time.

DMV's Frank Zappa post was right on the money. Fix peoples mental health, fix the problems.

Just like television, hippy music, Ozzy, and everything else that came before it... video games do not make people lose their sh17. To believe that they do makes you just as ignorant as those who came before you.



lol, dumb.

I regretted getting personal the minute I hit post. Sorry i went there.
My grandkids play violent video games here sometimes. I know they're fun. I've tried them.
But I know they desensitize kids to death.
Any intro course in college psychology will tell you that.


Plus I'm just sick and tired of all and any events putting half of us on one side of the issue and the other half on the other side.
It used to be that we were all at least trying to find common ground when we disagreed.
I miss when dems and reps lived and were friends in Washington. More good things resulted. Now, I feel like the country is at war with itself. And the truth is dead.

Obviously school shootings won't stop until something causing them does.
My aim, even though the timing sucked, was to research causes and brainstorm here, not to get cigar smokers to march on washington.
'Wtf just happened?' was my way of mourning out loud.
bgz Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
No harm no foul, I'm sure we'll go at it again on something else in the future.

Don't regret throwing anything at me, I don't offend easy;)

But I do fire back, lol.
HuckFinn Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:30 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Many other countries have school shootings. I'd never seen an actual list. We top it.
Good read: bullying, drugs, mental illness, copycatting all variables.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
dstieger Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:38 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Over 20,000 children under the age of 15 have been killed in motor vehicle accidents over the last 18 years.

If the data is good, and I'm reading stats correctly.....Since Jan 1, 2000 (over 18 years) 257 students have been killed at schools. Tragic.

But, as emotional and sensational as it is, I think a case could be made that the attention, news, isn't really commensurate with the scope, scale and risk.

I'm not suggesting that nothing can or should be done...or that it isn't a tragic event....for those personally touched. Just that perspective is usually good...especially when moving towards finding 'solutions'
Speyside Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:44 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
257 students have been murdered. So I think you are comparing 2 very different sets of statistics. How many students have been murdered in vehicular homicides?
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:46 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Accidents vs intentional murder vs not mutually exclusive.

Nice.

The day this crap isn’t newsworthy...
tailgater Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:48 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
257 students have been murdered. So I think you are comparing 2 very different sets of statistics. How many students have been murdered in vehicular homicides?


Every one of those that involved a drunk or otherwise impaired driver.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 10:52 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
dstieger wrote:
Over 20,000 children under the age of 15 have been killed in motor vehicle accidents over the last 18 years.

If the data is good, and I'm reading stats correctly.....Since Jan 1, 2000 (over 18 years) 257 students have been killed at schools. Tragic.

But, as emotional and sensational as it is, I think a case could be made that the attention, news, isn't really commensurate with the scope, scale and risk.

I'm not suggesting that nothing can or should be done...or that it isn't a tragic event....for those personally touched. Just that perspective is usually good...especially when moving towards finding 'solutions'




This is pretty much word for word what i tell myself and others when these things happen... i don't know why, but its ringing hollow this time around... probably sound like a drama queen... i really don't know why... maybe it's because we literally just enrolled my son in school last week... whatever the reason I'm having a very tough time with this one emotionally...

And I'm realizing a lot of what those statistics don't show.... number of parents whose lives are shattered... number of students who saw the dead body of a close friend... number of kids who will never be able to attend another class, never be able to go to college, never lead a life without a huge component of fear overshadowing their every decision... number of kids who will never see big brother or big sister again... how many parents lost a child yesterday afternoon and still had to go home and explain that death to their other children...
HuckFinn Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:02 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Planning a shooting/murders and drinking and dwi resulting in death are two very different things.

Former is malicious, (and 1st degree murder) latter; plain stupid.
teedubbya Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Both unacceptable neither mutually exclusive. Using vehicular deaths in the manor in the context of this conversation not really productive I’m my opinion

Just my opinion. You know bung holes and all.
HuckFinn Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
North Korea had zero school shootings last year.


Same in South Korea
It does happen in China periodically.
dstieger Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:20 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I'm not suggesting a comparison for any reason other than my own perspective...and maybe others?

Death of a child is a death of a child.....motive is important for a lot of reasons, especially relating to prevention, but doesn't change the results...dead children....why isn't there (any?) outrage over the 10's of thousands of children killed in motor vehicle accidents? 17 lives lost in the shooting yesterday is 17 too many....but in the big scheme of things, well.....it makes for good news viewership, at least
opelmanta1900 Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:27 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Who would the outrage be against, Henry Ford? Other drivers who make mistakes? We hurl our bodies down the road at 70+mph in metal tubes, only feet away from others doing the same thing, sometimes in opposite directions... it's an incredibly high risk situation and the fact that there aren't thousands more deaths from vehicular accidents is near miraculous...

it shouldn't take a near miracle to keep kids safe at school... it shouldn't be a dangerous situation ever... there shouldn't be a set of severe risks you take by going to high school...
HuckFinn Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:32 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Some would argue a public education is a severe risk.

I agree with you. I think most of us are on the same page.

With luck this tragedy might signal a turning point.
Just Relax Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:45 AM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
One thing I will say about finding a solution - I've always told my kids to make sure they are nice to the kid everyone picks on, adults don't always know who that is but the kids do....

Be more proactive at shutting down the bullying that the popular kids do to the weak (or different) kids and I think we will see less of this.
tailgater Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
Planning a shooting/murders and drinking and dwi resulting in death are two very different things.

Former is malicious, (and 1st degree murder) latter; plain stupid.


The bar keeps moving.
HuckFinn Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
The bar keeps moving.











Why, you thirsty?
teedubbya Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The car issue is an issue and there are vast resources going towards it.

It just has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Why? You buying?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:49 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Denise Loughran was reunited with her 17-year-old son, Liam, within a few hours of the shooting. But they still hadn’t heard from his sister, Cara, a freshman.

“Her phone must be in her backpack, and they made them drop their backpacks when they ran out,” Loughran said. “This has just been chaos. I couldn’t get near the school. My husband took a bike to try to get there, and they ended up sending him to the hotel where they said they were taking the kids.

“But she’s not there.”

On Thursday, the family confirmed that Cara was among those killed.
tailgater Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:49 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Friggin TW ruined the flow.
Again.
HuckFinn Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
Why? You buying?


Classic:
Three old guys are out walking.
First one says, “Windy, isn’t it?”
Second one says, “No, its Thursday!”
Third one says, “So am I. Let’s go get a beer.”
opelmanta1900 Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 11:54 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
You do realize this is a thread about dead children, right....
HuckFinn Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:04 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
opelmanta1900 wrote:
You do realize this is a thread about dead children, right....

You're right of course. Think I needed a break...
bgz Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Just Relax wrote:
One thing I will say about finding a solution - I've always told my kids to make sure they are nice to the kid everyone picks on, adults don't always know who that is but the kids do....

Be more proactive at shutting down the bullying that the popular kids do to the weak (or different) kids and I think we will see less of this.


This is actually very good advice and IMO a pretty good preventative measure. I'm going to have to utilize it with my kids.
dstieger Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
this forum would pretty much cease to exist....lol
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Be nice cause they might shoot you..?? Huh


Might teach some self defense also... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:20 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Just Relax wrote:
One thing I will say about finding a solution - I've always told my kids to make sure they are nice to the kid everyone picks on, adults don't always know who that is but the kids do....

Be more proactive at shutting down the bullying that the popular kids do to the weak (or different) kids and I think we will see less of this.



Maybe the peripheral benefit is even more important...if/when the bullied kid snaps, your children may not be priority targets
Just Relax Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Yes to both above. Unfortunately kids can't be in the dark and knowledge is power. The conversation is done with tact but ultimately the understanding is don't make yourself a target.
DrafterX Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
And always sit behind the fat kid... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:37 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Just Relax wrote:
One thing I will say about finding a solution - I've always told my kids to make sure they are nice to the kid everyone picks on, adults don't always know who that is but the kids do....

Be more proactive at shutting down the bullying that the popular kids do to the weak (or different) kids and I think we will see less of this.

Very smart of you... i think perhaps equally important to keeping guns out of the hands of people who are mentally struggling is helping those who are mentally struggling before they succumb to that struggle...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
The "fat kid" was murdered saving the lives of others...

“It is with great sadness that our Football Family has learned about the death of Aaron Feis,” a Twitter account for the school’s football program tweeted early Thursday.

“He was our assistant football coach and security guard. He selflessly shielded students from the shooter when he was shot. He died a hero and he will forever be in our hearts and memories,” the tweet read.

The high school’s head football coach Willis May told the Sun-Sentinel that he heard directly from a student that Feis had jumped between her and 19-year-old gunman Nikolas Cruz, pushing her through a door and out of harm’s way.
Just Relax Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Thanks, yes the second part is one kid being nice might give enough compassion to keep it from happening.
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 1:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
opelmanta1900 wrote:

“He was our assistant football coach and security guard. He selflessly shielded students from the shooter when he was shot. He died a hero and he will forever be in our hearts and memories,” the tweet read.

The high school’s head football coach Willis May told the Sun-Sentinel that he heard directly from a student that Feis had jumped between her and 19-year-old gunman Nikolas Cruz, pushing her through a door and out of harm’s way.



I'd do this for Frank... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
teedubbya wrote:
The link I was watching yesterday to get to a local news feed went through breitbart. In it there was a comment section that exploded with anti immigrant and anti DACA comments when the scum bags last name was announced. It was sick.

Some folks agenda is so ingrained in them that they apply it to everything whether it fits or not. The altered reality in their mind is what scares me. Those types of folks used to be the fringe, or at least I thought so. Now I’m seeing more and more of them feeling comfortable in the open.

Sad really.


The expelled student accused of killing 17 people at his former South Florida school had previously trained with a white nationalist militia in the state, participating in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee, according to new details that emerged Thursday in the investigation into the deadly shooting.

A representative of the "Republic of Florida" militia told researchers at the Anti-Defamation League that shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz, 19, had been "brought up" into the group by one of its members, the nonprofit said in a blog post.

The Republic of Florida calls itself "a white civil rights organization fighting for white identitarian politics" on its website, adding that its "current short-term goals are to occupy urban areas to recruit suburban young whites" in pursuit of "the ultimate creation of a white ethnostate."


More at http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-florida-shooting-suspect-charged-20180215-story.html
HuckFinn Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 2:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Just Relax wrote:
One thing I will say about finding a solution - I've always told my kids to make sure they are nice to the kid everyone picks on, adults don't always know who that is but the kids do....

Be more proactive at shutting down the bullying that the popular kids do to the weak (or different) kids and I think we will see less of this.


I want to agree but can't. In middle school my wife convinced my son that he had to stand up for a kid that was getting picked on. He did. And it felt like the right thing to do. Still does.
My son was a great basketball player in school and hung out with the jocks/bullies.
But after he defended this kid the situation went south on him and he was suddenly a major target of their BS. Their ridiculing him did damage.
Not sure there's a one size fits all solution for bullying.
Just Relax Offline
#91 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Hmmm nice point . There is a difference between standing up and being nice. Walk away when others start picking on them. Say high with a smile while passing them in the hallway. I completely understand where you are coming from and hate that your son was put in that situation.

I will think about that with my next discussion - man what a world we live in.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#92 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 2:44 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Huck - sucks for your son and i don't discount the damage you say it did him... but the damage done to the kids who turned on him for defending someone? They'll either grow up severely devoid of a conscious or severely aware of the lack of one they had growing up... either way, he's better off than they are...
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
And always sit behind the fat kid... Mellow



do you ever notice the line behind you?
teedubbya Offline
#94 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I somehow doubt this guy was picking and choosing when to pull the trigger based on who gave him a donut in the past. I think once it starts its going. The new range I go to has skills and drills when you have to decide when to fire or not. It's not always easy when its controlled and you are not under pressure. It's a nice thought though, and something to do because its the right thing. I'm just not sure it would help you.
dstieger Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
I somehow doubt this guy was picking and choosing when to pull the trigger based on who gave him a donut in the past. .


Not sure we know that yet. Seems there was a report that he picked a pretty direct route from the entrance to a place on the 3rd floor. 'Random' probably won't be in the final report.
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
It will be interesting to see the races of the victims... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#97 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
Not sure we know that yet. Seems there was a report that he picked a pretty direct route from the entrance to a place on the 3rd floor. 'Random' probably won't be in the final report.



You are right we don't know that yet. I'm also not saying he didn't have a plan or route or preferred target or two. I just meant once the trigger starts pulling its harder to discriminate than you might think. You not meaning anyone specific.
Just Relax Offline
#98 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:17 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
TW you are exactly right. Wrong place at the wrong time you don't have a chance. However you have a better chance if he's not specifically looking for you at a location he knows you'll be in at that time every day. There were bystanders killed but I'm sure he had a certain group in mind to target.

I do hope it's a a completely non-needed conversation. And if kids collectively did a better job at being nice instead of jumping on the cruelty bandwagon the school has a better chance to avoid as well.
teedubbya Offline
#99 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
In total agreement on treating people better because it's the right thing to do. So in that regard it's irrelevant.
delta1 Offline
#100 Posted: Thu, Feb 15 2018, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Golden Rule...is that still taught?
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