America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by DrafterX. 682 replies replies.
14 Pages«<7891011121314>
National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
teedubbya Offline
#501 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
RMAN4443 wrote:
The Oklahoma City bombing killed 165 people and injured 680 others, The blast destroyed or damaged 324 other buildings within a 16-block radius, shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings, and destroyed or burned 86 cars, causing an estimated $652 million worth of damage. Not one shot was fired from a gun of any kind......this devastation was caused by a box truck loaded with forty 50-pound (23 kg) bags of ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
19 of the victims were children being cared for in the daycare center in the building. My point is if people want to kill and have mass casualties they will.......by blowing up fertilizer, driving cars or trucks into crowds of people, or crashing planes into buildings, or pressure cooker bombs in crowded places.........should we ban fertilizer, or motorized vehicles over a certain size, or planes, or pressure cookers?
People want to kill, they're going to find a way to do it.........would we be demanding the banning of trucks and fertilizer if the mentally ill Nikolas Cruz had crashed a truck into the school and blown it up?



Yes. We did. Not banned (not possible due to farming) but greatly restricted and regulated as a direct result. Trucks are already licensed, registered, regulated etc more than I would like guns to be.
teedubbya Offline
#502 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 2:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
paulkeck wrote:
If you think a pistol is less accurate in a school hallway or any other rifle, you haven't been shooting




I've shot both, neither in a hallway but mostly outside and at a range. for accuracy at any distance other than a few\couple feet I'll take the rifle (an AR) especially with targets moving away from me if given a choice. if you wouldn't then I'd love to be competing against you LOL
victor809 Offline
#503 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
paulkeck wrote:
If you think a pistol is less accurate in a school hallway or any other rifle, you haven't been shooting


I've been shooting. shot everything from small pistols, larger pistols, ARs, enfield rifles etc... including modified ARs which require special licenses to own. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with any of it... (except a scoped enfield... that was a nice and easy gun)....

I would argue that when people are running away from you, there's probably still an accuracy improvement.
And don't forget the bullets. High power rifle bullets are specifically designed for a nice tumble in the body to disperse energy into tissue.

This isn't hard to see. Look at the history of weapons... we don't arm our troops with pistols. When sh#t goes down, the police move to rifles.

Again, I'm not trying to ban a damn thing. But to pretend that there isn't an upside to having an AR style weapon if you happen to be a school shooter... that's just lying to yourself.
teedubbya Offline
#504 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
People buy ARs for a reason and it isn't because they are less accurate, hold less ammo, have more recoil, are slower etc. They are great tools and fun to shoot. The improvements in them over run of the mill rifles let alone pistols makes them good for certain jobs. I think they are fun. There are better (or more wicked depending on your take) out there for sure, but they are nice tools.

A good bolt action will likely be more accurate yet but slower. You pick your poison.... horse power or torque sort of.

Did you notice the swat teams came in with long guns in the videos? Their pistols seemed to still be holstered.
victor809 Offline
#505 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 2:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I sometimes feel like people need to lie to themselves to be able to argue some issues. ... honestly, if you need to lie to yourself and claim that AR style weapons would give a shooter no advantage over pistols at all, so that you can feel good about yourself when you defend people owning AR style weapons... then maybe you should choose a different side of the argument.

Either nut up and accept that people die sometimes, and there is an acceptable margin of death for every decision made, or go join the nanny staters.
ZRX1200 Offline
#506 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Or you have to just be a dumbass, and not know that long guns account for 3.5% of murders........

Thankfully the smart scientific types always account for that
victor809 Offline
#507 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
No one is talking about murders z...
The discussion is the mass school shootings.

Keep up
tailgater Offline
#508 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Dave, you should also care about statistics that don't support your point of view. If the statistics are accurate, then a point of view should be logically based on what they show. Though I will throw out the caveat that studies can be manipulated to create any set of statistics you want. So I probably care most that the study is unbiased, and the aim of the study is to find out the truth.


Liars.
Damn Liars.
Statisticians.

In that order.
victor809 Offline
#509 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Additionally we aren't talking about what's most commonly used but rather what tools provide a school shooter an advantage when trying to do their job.

A Camry may be the most common car to be ticketed for speeding... doesn't mean it can go the fastest.
Speyside Offline
#510 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You forgot politicians.
tailgater Offline
#511 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185


Worst school mass murder in US history was at Virginia Tech.
33 dead.
Weapons of choice?
Glock 19 pistol; Walther P22 pistol (had to look this up. Don't really know gun names. Just knew he had pistols)

Where was the AR?
How could he POSSIBLY kill so many without the mandatory AR-15?????
Because I'm learning there is NO WAY to kill so many without it.


Stop the nonsense.
Enforce the existing laws first.
Stop loopholes (like gun shows) and improve background checks.
Do all that, and then we can discuss new laws and what their impact would be.

Right now we've just got emotions and some brave kids shouting down the white house.
Phil222 Offline
#512 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
victor809 wrote:
Additionally we aren't talking about what's most commonly used but rather what tools provide a school shooter an advantage when trying to do their job.


That would depend on the school and the objective of the shooter. Will concealment be an issue upon entry? Number of targets, guards, distances, etc., etc...

No doubt that an AR is an effective tool, but there are too many variables in that scenario to say for certain. There are also a number of other rifles, shotguns, and pistols (See #511) that could serve a shooter just as well.
cacman Offline
#513 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:32 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
tailgater wrote:
Worst school mass murder in US history was at Virginia Tech.

Perhaps you missed this thread:
http://www.cigarbid.com/...l-Attack-in-U-S-History

It's OK. you've been on a roll…
DrafterX Offline
#514 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Potato guns... Just sayin... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#515 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:44 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
[quote=cacman]Perhaps you missed this thread:
http://www.cigarbid.com/...l-Attack-in-U-S-History

There's no comparing the Bath School attack from 90 rears ago, an anomaly, where an adult, crazed home owner blew up kids with the modern phenomenon of school shootings.
All perpetrated by kids.

But, you're right about the death toll being the highest. But the worst? Dunno..

And obvioulsy, we're witnessing an epidemic.
paulkeck Offline
#516 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
tailgater wrote:
Worst school mass murder in US history was at Virginia Tech.
33 dead.
Weapons of choice?
Glock 19 pistol; Walther P22 pistol (had to look this up. Don't really know gun names. Just knew he had pistols)

Where was the AR?
How could he POSSIBLY kill so many without the mandatory AR-15?????
Because I'm learning there is NO WAY to kill so many without it.


Stop the nonsense.
Enforce the existing laws first.
Stop loopholes (like gun shows) and improve background checks.
Do all that, and then we can discuss new laws and what their impact would be.

Right now we've just got emotions and some brave kids shouting down the white house.




Nevermind carry on lol
Speyside Offline
#517 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:13 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Well that's odd, I agree with Tail.
cacman Offline
#518 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
HuckFinn wrote:
There's no comparing the Bath School attack from 90 rears ago, an anomaly, where an adult, crazed home owner blew up kids with the modern phenomenon of school shootings.
All perpetrated by kids.

Murder is murder Hucky.
Florida shooter was a 19yr old.
Virginia Tech shooter was 23yrs old.

Both adults.
HuckFinn Offline
#519 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Speyside wrote:
Well that's odd, I agree with Tail.

Ditto
HuckFinn Offline
#520 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
Murder is murder Hucky.
Florida shooter was a 19yr old.
Virginia Tech shooter was 23yrs old.

Both adults.

I guess..?
But young nonetheless.
Kids, when you're 67yo
Brewha Offline
#521 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
Of course AR15 are designed to inflict maximum personnel damage. As opposed to a pistol:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

But - and this is key - some peoples skulls are too think for these fact to penetrate....
paulkeck Offline
#522 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Of course AR15 are designed to inflict maximum personnel damage. As opposed to a pistol:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

But - and this is key - some peoples skulls are too think for these fact to penetrate....

You really should read more about bullets before posting something like this....
Brewha Offline
#523 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:40 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
Well that post was filled with ignorance... congrats Applause Applause Applause

Perhaps you are not applying yourself......
Brewha Offline
#524 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:40 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
You really should read more about bullets before posting something like this....

Too late, I already did.
paulkeck Offline
#525 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Too late, I already did.


Not from that article you didnt!
Brewha Offline
#526 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:45 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
Not from that article you didnt!

Maybe...I sped read it....
It could happen.
paulkeck Offline
#527 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Maybe...I sped read it....
It could happen.

Hahaha I do that a lot
Brewha Offline
#528 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
The point is that a 223 has about twice the velocity of say a 9mm. This greatly increase ballistic trauma in people - as it is designed to do.

You know, if you need and AR15 to hunt, than maybe hunting is just not your thing.

While some would argue (with a misanthropes lack of responsibility) that automatic weapons are an “American Right”, it is the exact reason that these weapons are highly illegal that assault rifles and their accessories should be off of the market.
Ewok126 Offline
#529 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 5:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
Hey I do this as well, its like


Blahh blahh the, blah to, blah blah and, blah blah sexual relations between Victor and Drafter blah blah blah.

just hit the important words is all. I am glad I am not the only one that reads in this fashion.
teedubbya Offline
#530 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
NATO rounds are designed to wound not kill. Takes more people off the battlefield.
Brewha Offline
#531 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
teedubbya wrote:
NATO rounds are designed to wound not kill. Takes more people off the battlefield.

By causing more bullistic damage.

Not sure what you mean my NATO rounds are not designed to kill....??
Is that not the ideal wound?
paulkeck Offline
#532 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
The point is that a 223 has about twice the velocity of say a 9mm. This greatly increase ballistic trauma in people - as it is designed to do.

You know, if you need and AR15 to hunt, than maybe hunting is just not your thing.

While some would argue (with a misanthropes lack of responsibility) that automatic weapons are an “American Right”, it is the exact reason that these weapons are highly illegal that assault rifles and their accessories should be off of the market.

You don't "need" a rifle to hunt period.... and put a 223 fmj against a 45acp hollow point and tell me which does more body trauma. The 9mm he speaks of in that article, straight path entering and exiting could only be an fmj, cause a hollow point breaks up and splinters out.
teedubbya Offline
#533 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Wounded takes several off the battlefield. Dead takes one.
teedubbya Offline
#534 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And your initial comment about damage is incorrect.
teedubbya Offline
#535 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Which rounds are not technically allowed on the battlefield?
frankj1 Offline
#536 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
paulkeck wrote:
Train teachers or have armed guards in schools, and I bet it deters most

the armed Deputy in the FL school the other day didn't help.
Brewha Offline
#537 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:14 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
You don't "need" a rifle to hunt period.... and put a 223 fmj against a 45acp hollow point and tell me which does more body trauma. The 9mm he speaks of in that article, straight path entering and exiting could only be an fmj, cause a hollow point breaks up and splinters out.

Hollow points mushroom or flatten. They are now starting to make Radially Inasive Projectiles (RIP) rounds. These expand more and might tend to splinter.....
Brewha Offline
#538 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:14 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
teedubbya wrote:
And your initial comment about damage is incorrect.

You busting me for spelling again?
Brewha Offline
#539 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
teedubbya wrote:
Which rounds are not technically allowed on the battlefield?

Don’t tease us TW - spit it out.
teedubbya Offline
#540 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nope. I would be the last person to do that
teedubbya Offline
#541 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If you don’t know it’s enough proof for me
Brewha Offline
#542 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
frankj1 wrote:
the armed Deputy in the FL school the other day didn't help.

I watched the CNN town hall for the school last night (yes I know CNN is a liberal rag) and they had an NRA spokes person on. She took the tack that this was a failure of law inforcement, and that any type of weapons were not the issue. Big surprise, right?
paulkeck Offline
#543 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
Nope. I would be the last person to do that

The answer is as I stated above, as the difference in wound channeling that the Doc was talking about. Hollow points
Brewha Offline
#544 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
teedubbya wrote:
If you don’t know it’s enough proof for me

Nicely convenient.


I would say not to hide your light under a bush....but I know how fast thing go in the weeds around here.
paulkeck Offline
#545 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Nicely convenient.


I would say not to hide your light under a bush....but I know how fast thing go in the weeds around here.


Like I asked which in your opinion would do more trauma to a body. 223 fmj or 45acp hollow point
teedubbya Offline
#546 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Brewha I appreciate and enjoy people with different opinions than mine. Where I become disinterested is when someone is uninformed but acts like they are informed

My comments were very basic
Brewha Offline
#547 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:26 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
The answer is as I stated above, as the difference in wound channeling that the Doc was talking about. Hollow points

Twice the velocity is crux of the biscuit, if you recall your basic physics.
Brewha Offline
#548 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:29 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
paulkeck wrote:
Like I asked which in your opinion would do more trauma to a body. 223 fmj or 45acp hollow point

The 223 - he’s got 60 round and the 45 only has 7.

Herfing
Brewha Offline
#549 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,172
teedubbya wrote:
Brewha I appreciate and enjoy people with different opinions than mine. Where I become disinterested is when someone is uninformed but acts like they are informed

My comments were very basic

It’s not like you to claim to know better but not explain.

Think
teedubbya Offline
#550 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The armed deputy never entered the school. He sat outside
Users browsing this topic
Guest
14 Pages«<7891011121314>
Back to Top