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teedubbya Offline
#551 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Wow.
teedubbya Offline
#552 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It’s very basic brewha and more enjoyable this way lol.
paulkeck Offline
#553 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Twice the velocity is crux of the biscuit, if you recall your basic physics.


Maybe in beating something to the punch but not in body trauma velocity is only 1 of the factors. A 9mm has a faster velocity than a 45acp.... a 17hmr can have a higher velocity over a 308 so your theory it will do more damage right?
paulkeck Offline
#554 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
The 223 - he’s got 60 round and the 45 only has 7.

Herfing

Again.... I can get a 100 round mag for my Glock 21 but it comes with a 14 round mag
frankj1 Offline
#555 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
teedubbya wrote:
The armed deputy never entered the school. He sat outside

yes, I know that now and it is a slightly different setting.
But if a trained, armed, paid-to-protect Deputy decides not to shoot a shooter, I'm gonna find it hard to believe that teachers would have no problem...

and has been discussed here often in similar threads, when the cops arrive and see the hero (in a theater or school) standing with a gun, the hero gets shot in an instant.
paulkeck Offline
#556 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
frankj1 wrote:
yes, I know that now and it is a slightly different setting.
But if a trained, armed, paid-to-protect Deputy decides not to shoot a shooter, I'm gonna find it hard to believe that teachers would have no problem...

and has been discussed here often in similar threads, when the cops arrive and see the hero (in a theater or school) standing with a gun, the hero gets shot in an instant.

That's really not a fair judgment, I mean the coach didn't even have a gun but gave his life to shield students, just because that one cop was a coward and didn't do his job doesn't mean others wouldn't, concealed handgun carriers do it all the time.
Brewha Offline
#557 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 6:52 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
Again.... I can get a 100 round mag for my Glock 21 but it comes with a 14 round mag

Exactly- and that is just wrong.

Who on God’s gray earth needs a mag like that?
Brewha Offline
#558 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
frankj1 wrote:
yes, I know that now and it is a slightly different setting.
But if a trained, armed, paid-to-protect Deputy decides not to shoot a shooter, I'm gonna find it hard to believe that teachers would have no problem...

and has been discussed here often in similar threads, when the cops arrive and see the hero (in a theater or school) standing with a gun, the hero gets shot in an instant.

Hiring guards, arming teachers and making schools fixed fortifications is a “look over there” tactic.


Again - people should keep their CCL piece, their hunting rifles, scopes......We need to stop selling assault rifle with high capacity magazines and automatic mods to anyone that simply seeks out a private sale.

Not responsible. Not at all.
teedubbya Offline
#559 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Frank I wasn’t referencing your post. Had just heard about the deputy on the radio and responded.

I agree with you.

The story of the kid the cops thought was the shooter is scary. Had he had a gun I fear he’d be dead.

Who’s shooting who and why during these things is complicated theoretically let alone for real.



The popo is supposedly heavily trained. I suspect they would me more highly trained than most teachers. This deputy aside have we seen any issues with highly trained police in high stress situations. Have we seen any unarmed folks get shot? What do we do if next time it’s a teacher killing an unarmed student?
paulkeck Offline
#560 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Exactly- and that is just wrong.

Who on God’s gray earth needs a mag like that?


Again....I think You're missing the point, we don't NEED a lot of things period. I mean who needs a super charged sports car when they can ride a bicycle? We want them and until this country turns into Russia or China and As long as I am a law abiding citizen I can have one
paulkeck Offline
#561 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Hiring guards, arming teachers and making schools fixed fortifications is a “look over there” tactic.


Again - people should keep their CCL piece, their hunting rifles, scopes......We need to stop selling assault rifle with high capacity magazines and automatic mods to anyone that simply seeks out a private sale.

Not responsible. Not at all.


That's a lot different than saying to ban them all or who needs them, I agree private sellers should be held accountable for the sale. I mean to prove they are able to purchase
teedubbya Offline
#562 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I want a nuke!
paulkeck Offline
#563 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
I want a nuke!



Not me, would take up way to much space in the garage!
teedubbya Offline
#564 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:12 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nah. You can fit some into a briefcase.
paulkeck Offline
#565 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
Nah. You can fit some into a briefcase.

True....true!!
teedubbya Offline
#566 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Since nukes don’t kill people, people kill people more nukes in more countries seems like a rational approach to safety.
paulkeck Offline
#567 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
Since nukes don’t kill people, people kill people more nukes in more countries seems like a rational approach to safety.

Well people do kill people....with nukes
Phil222 Offline
#568 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
teedubbya wrote:
Since nukes don’t kill people, people kill people more nukes in more countries seems like a rational approach to safety.


I think we should ban nukes and just let people have regular bombs instead...
victor809 Offline
#569 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
On the arming teachers aspect...
I think there's a really interesting problem that no one wants to discuss. You start arming and "training" teachers to protect the students as well as teach, are we going to continue paying them the terrible salary they get? I mean, suddenly their responsibility is not just to teach math, but to also shoot a kid if they decide to go on a rampage (we arent' talking self defense here. If the PE teacher is expected to be a protecting force, then when the shooting occurs across the building in another wing, he is part of the armed response, putting his life in danger of both enemy, and potentially friendly fire). Is his pay going to be commensurate with that responsibility? What about the insurance, because he better be insured in case he shoots the wrong kid in the heat of the moment and gets sued afterwards for damages...

All that costs money.

And I believe the Dept of Education reduced funding this year.
paulkeck Offline
#570 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
victor809 wrote:
On the arming teachers aspect...
I think there's a really interesting problem that no one wants to discuss. You start arming and "training" teachers to protect the students as well as teach, are we going to continue paying them the terrible salary they get? I mean, suddenly their responsibility is not just to teach math, but to also shoot a kid if they decide to go on a rampage (we arent' talking self defense here. If the PE teacher is expected to be a protecting force, then when the shooting occurs across the building in another wing, he is part of the armed response, putting his life in danger of both enemy, and potentially friendly fire). Is his pay going to be commensurate with that responsibility? What about the insurance, because he better be insured in case he shoots the wrong kid in the heat of the moment and gets sued afterwards for damages...

All that costs money.

And I believe the Dept of Education reduced funding this year.

Even if we don't arm them, they still deserve more money, they should be one of the highest paying jobs... Not the lowest.
teedubbya Offline
#571 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I agree Phil. Let’s get bombed!
Brewha Offline
#572 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:24 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
Again....I think You're missing the point, we don't NEED a lot of things period. I mean who needs a super charged sports car when they can ride a bicycle? We want them and until this country turns into Russia or China and As long as I am a law abiding citizen I can have one

Again, it is about the risk/benefit ratio of having things. A balancing act, if you will.

I don’t want my neighbor having a machine gun because I see it as an unreasonable risk. The same with para-military hardware.





Now some don’t see the risk. Some only see the perfect world of responsible weapon owners. And we are safe with these weapons, all around us, as long wind blows, grass grows, and the sky is blue.


But some days, the wind don’t blow, the grass don’t grow, and the sky just ain’t blue.....
Phil222 Offline
#573 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
teedubbya wrote:
I agree Phil. Let’s get bombed!


Beer
teedubbya Offline
#574 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I agree with you there Paul. Other than the fact they are all libs and are indoctrinating our kids in to socialism and education is overrated and bad anyway.
paulkeck Offline
#575 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Again, it is about the risk/benefit ratio of having things. A balancing act, if you will.

I don’t want my neighbor having a machine gun because I see it as an unreasonable risk. The same with para-military hardware.

Now some don’t see the risk. Some only see the perfect world of responsible weapon owners. And we are safe with these weapons, all around us, as long as grass grows, the wind blows, and the sky is blue.


But some days, the wind don’t blow, the grass don’t grow, and the sky just ain’t blue.....

The issue is and always will be on both sides about.....I......... As you just stated you don't want him to have It. I think I should have It. So who is right? I think if you don't want it that is fine but if he wants it he should have it as long as he is a law abiding citizen. Been like that since the beginning of time.
paulkeck Offline
#576 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
I agree with you there Paul. Other than the fact they are all libs and are indoctrinating our kids in to socialism and education is overrated and bad anyway.

I figure if we pay them more and put youth is still a few points from retarded we can fire them and hire new ones.
Brewha Offline
#577 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
The issue is and always will be on both sides about.....I......... As you just stated you don't want him to have It. I think I should have It. So who is right? I think if you don't want it that is fine but if he wants it he should have it as long as he is a law abiding citizen. Been like that since the beginning of time.

Does that include nukes?
banderl Offline
#578 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
Where I become disinterested is when someone is uninformed but acts like they are informed




Tailgater?
paulkeck Offline
#579 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Does that include nukes?

Yep! But only the small ones
Brewha Offline
#580 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
Yep! But only the small ones

Again, I really don’t think you are applying yourself here.....
paulkeck Offline
#581 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Again, I really don’t think you are applying yourself here.....

Medium size??
Brewha Offline
#582 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
Medium size??

I can see I deserved that......
DrafterX Offline
#583 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
100 count humidors should be outlawed... What if a smoker decided to smoke them all at once..?? He could do some serious damage or even kill himself as well as his puppy-dog..!! OhMyGod
paulkeck Offline
#584 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
I can see I deserved that......

Angel
Brewha Offline
#585 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
DrafterX wrote:
100 count humidors should be outlawed... What if a smoker decided to smoke them all at once..?? He could do some serious damage or even kill himself as well as his puppy-dog..!! OhMyGod

Drafter! Look over there - It’s HILLARY!!!!!!
paulkeck Offline
#586 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Drafter! Look over there - It’s HILLARY!!!!!!

You know you just made that poor man kick a puppy on accident!
Brewha Offline
#587 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:45 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,161
paulkeck wrote:
You know you just made that poor man kick a puppy on accident!

So he was not a responsible citizen?





Poor Drafter.....
paulkeck Offline
#588 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
So he was not a responsible citizen?





Poor Drafter.....

Take his 50 count humi as well....Think
DrafterX Offline
#589 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
That one has Cubans... Herfing
frankj1 Offline
#590 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
paulkeck wrote:
That's really not a fair judgment, I mean the coach didn't even have a gun but gave his life to shield students

concealed handgun carriers do it all the time.


exactly, he didn't have a gun, neither did the Americans on the train. Courage, admittedly stronger than I have, not weapons, saved those lives. I am in awe of those men.

there are millions of guns in circulation already but none seem to be preventing much of a percentage of hideous atrocities.

concealed handgun carriers say it happens all the time, and I have no reason to doubt them, but I've never seen reason to believe them either...other than a few heart warming stories here and there of home invaders crapping their pants...but we are addressing large scale sicko killing sprees.

have your guns, I'm not the kind of lib who wants to take them away (you don't know my history but it's true) but don't believe the mantra about having a fighting chance in situations like schools and theaters...cuz like TW says, the hero gets shot in the confusion by the cops, even if he gets to be a successful hero.

Let's allow the chance that, say, a half dozen school shooters get stopped by an armed teacher. I'm feeling the odds are less of that happening than a couple of teachers going berserk in a closed classroom.

Then what? Arm the honor students?

No personal attack intended, I just don't see this working, sorry. Even sorrier that I don't know how to fix it.
paulkeck Offline
#591 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
frankj1 wrote:
exactly, he didn't have a gun, neither did the Americans on the train. Courage, admittedly stronger than I have, not weapons, saved those lives. I am in awe of those men.

there are millions of guns in circulation already but none seem to be preventing much of a percentage of hideous atrocities.

concealed handgun carriers say it happens all the time, and I have no reason to doubt them, but I've never seen reason to believe them either...other than a few heart warming stories here and there of home invaders crapping their pants...but we are addressing large scale sicko killing sprees.

have your guns, I'm not the kind of lib who wants to take them away (you don't know my history but it's true) but don't believe the mantra about having a fighting chance in situations like schools and theaters...cuz like TW says, the hero gets shot in the confusion by the cops, even if he gets to be a successful hero.

Let's allow the chance that, say, a half dozen school shooters get stopped by an armed teacher. I'm feeling the odds are less of that happening than a couple of teachers going berserk in a closed classroom.

Then what? Arm the honor students?

No personal attack intended, I just don't see this working, sorry. Even sorrier that I don't know how to fix it.



I don't have the answers either sadly
frankj1 Offline
#592 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
paulkeck wrote:
I don't have the answers either sadly

but you are talking, and many don't agree, but we're talking...
victor809 Offline
#593 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
My philosophy has always been, don't think about what weapon you want the right to have.

Think about what weapons you want the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imagine to be able to have... and also remember those people likely have many small, stupid, poorly behaved and very poorly disciplined children in the house, likely with said weapon unsecured.

Now, I am still at that point willing to allow anyone to have a nuke. But I am again, not probably the best judge here, being slightly misanthropic.

But, this desire for access to all sorts of hardware others seem to have, frequently confuses me when they claim to care about their kids and whatnot.

Because remember, your kids go to school with the children of the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imaging
paulkeck Offline
#594 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
victor809 wrote:
My philosophy has always been, don't think about what weapon you want the right to have.

Think about what weapons you want the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imagine to be able to have... and also remember those people likely have many small, stupid, poorly behaved and very poorly disciplined children in the house, likely with said weapon unsecured.

Now, I am still at that point willing to allow anyone to have a nuke. But I am again, not probably the best judge here, being slightly misanthropic.

But, this desire for access to all sorts of hardware others seem to have, frequently confuses me when they claim to care about their kids and whatnot.

Because remember, your kids go to school with the children of the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imaging


That's another one I have no answers for, except hopefully that idiot doesn't show up to kill one of my kids and there is no one there to stop him. And the very thing he got his hands on to kill them with was taken away from them because the stupid kid was too stupid to use it in the first place but got it illegally
banderl Offline
#595 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:08 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
victor809 wrote:
My philosophy has always been, don't think about what weapon you want the right to have.

Think about what weapons you want the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imagine to be able to have... and also remember those people likely have many small, stupid, poorly behaved and very poorly disciplined children in the house, likely with said weapon unsecured.

Now, I am still at that point willing to allow anyone to have a nuke. But I am again, not probably the best judge here, being slightly misanthropic.

But, this desire for access to all sorts of hardware others seem to have, frequently confuses me when they claim to care about their kids and whatnot.

Because remember, your kids go to school with the children of the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imaging



Where's TCBY been?
DrafterX Offline
#596 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Heard some talk today on da radio about immediately disarming (going to the home and removing all guns) from potentially unstable peoples.. so I gathered that if you go to the doctor you'll have to list your firearms before you see the doc.. then if you ask for some Valiums or somethin they go get your guns.. then you have 3 days to prove your not a threat but they still don't have to return your guns... I can see this going very bad too... The mentally ill just won't go to the doctor.. Mellow
paulkeck Offline
#597 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
DrafterX wrote:
Heard some talk today on da radio about immediately disarming (going to the home and removing all guns) from potentially unstable peoples.. so I gathered that if you go to the doctor you'll have to list your firearms before you see the doc.. then if you ask for some Valiums or somethin they go get your guns.. then you have 3 days to prove your not a threat but they still don't have to return your guns... I can see this going very bad too... The mentally ill just won't go to the doctor.. Mellow


Good thing all mine fell of my fishing boat into the river!
frankj1 Offline
#598 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,215
DrafterX wrote:
Heard some talk today on da radio about immediately disarming (going to the home and removing all guns) from potentially unstable peoples.. so I gathered that if you go to the doctor you'll have to list your firearms before you see the doc.. then if you ask for some Valiums or somethin they go get your guns.. then you have 3 days to prove your not a threat but they still don't have to return your guns... I can see this going very bad too... The mentally ill just won't go to the doctor.. Mellow

never happen
DrafterX Offline
#599 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Heard some talk today on da radio about immediately disarming (going to the home and removing all guns) from potentially unstable peoples.. so I gathered that if you go to the doctor you'll have to list your firearms before you see the doc.. then if you ask for some Valiums or somethin they go get your guns.. then you have 3 days to prove your not a threat but they still don't have to return your guns... I can see this going very bad too... The mentally ill just won't go to the doctor.. Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#600 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
d'oh!
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