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DrafterX Offline
#601 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I think somethin like this is already happening in California... Mellow
paulkeck Offline
#602 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:20 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
DrafterX wrote:
I think somethin like this is already happening in California... Mellow

That is usually where it starts
DrafterX Offline
#603 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Heard a story a few years ago about it happening.. somethin about a kid was on antidepressants and they took all his uncle's guns out of the house... Maybe it needed to happen.. I dunno.. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#604 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
I think somethin like this is already happening in California... Mellow

what? double posting?
paulkeck Offline
#605 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
DrafterX wrote:
Heard a story a few years ago about it happening.. somethin about a kid was on antidepressants and they took all his uncle's guns out of the house... Maybe it needed to happen.. I dunno.. Mellow

Hell in California you put your pet on drugs you lose your guns....and don't get caught buying theraflu!!!
RMAN4443 Offline
#606 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:57 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
Potato guns... Just sayin... Mellow

You'll shoot your eye out kidAnxious
teedubbya Offline
#607 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 8:58 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter seems to worry an awful lot about being declared mentally incapacitated
DrafterX Offline
#608 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
No way man... Unsure
tailgater Offline
#609 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Well that's odd, I agree with Tail.


Racist.
tailgater Offline
#610 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
The point is that a 223 has about twice the velocity of say a 9mm.


Means nothing during a school shooting at close range.
tailgater Offline
#611 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:33 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
yes, I know that now and it is a slightly different setting.
But if a trained, armed, paid-to-protect Deputy decides not to shoot a shooter, I'm gonna find it hard to believe that teachers would have no problem...

and has been discussed here often in similar threads, when the cops arrive and see the hero (in a theater or school) standing with a gun, the hero gets shot in an instant.


Arming teachers can not be considered a nation wide strategy.

Out in da' sticks they probably already carry.
Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts there would be almost as many riots as there were when Trump was elected.
tailgater Offline
#612 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
My philosophy has always been, don't think about what weapon you want the right to have.

Think about what weapons you want the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imagine to be able to have... and also remember those people likely have many small, stupid, poorly behaved and very poorly disciplined children in the house, likely with said weapon unsecured.

Now, I am still at that point willing to allow anyone to have a nuke. But I am again, not probably the best judge here, being slightly misanthropic.

But, this desire for access to all sorts of hardware others seem to have, frequently confuses me when they claim to care about their kids and whatnot.

Because remember, your kids go to school with the children of the dumbest, most irresponsible person you can imaging


Using that "logic" you wouldn't want to sell alcohol, automobiles or steak knives.
Brewha Offline
#613 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:40 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
tailgater wrote:
Means nothing during a school shooting at close range.



That’s not what da doc says.....
HuckFinn Offline
#614 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 9:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
Using that "logic" you wouldn't want to sell alcohol, automobiles or steak knives.

And we'll address the malicious high school alchohol poisonings, campus car attacks and bloody steak knife stabbings when they approach the same seriousness as mass shootings at schools.


Right here.

At cbid.
ZRX1200 Online
#615 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 10:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
I think Brewha must have seen the footage jack wagon had of the .223 going through the 8"plate.......


Teedubya, SCOTUS said law enforcement has no obligation to help.
DrafterX Offline
#616 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I heard a tornado made a piece of straw impale a bunch of school kids... We need to outlaw guns... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#617 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
Arming teachers can not be considered a nation wide strategy.

Out into da' sticks they probably already carry.
Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts there would be almost as many riots as there were when Trump was elected.



we likely agree, no surprise despite the R of M comment cuz even the R of M has "sticks".

betcha the percent of teachers who either are already dealing with mental illness (and many people deal well) or wake up to a Dear John/Joan letter and snap is the same as the rest of the population.

No sane person would suggest we arm every adult in the nation to keep us safe...but the over/under here is 5...
teedubbya Offline
#618 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 11:07 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
I think Brewha must have seen the footage jack wagon had of the .223 going through the 8"plate.......


Teedubya, SCOTUS said law enforcement has no obligation to help.



Z I didn’t say differently and am not arguing about that. It was a trained man with a presume a pistol that wouldn’t take on an ar15. I honestly don’t blame him. I’d poop my pants.
frankj1 Offline
#619 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 11:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
Z I didn’t say differently and am not arguing about that. It was a trained man with a presume a pistol that wouldn’t take on an ar15. I honestly don’t blame him. I’d poop my pants.

see there, I didn't consider the weapons cuz it's just not a natural thought stream to me.
you never really know enough to be certain.
Speyside Offline
#620 Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018, 11:20 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So DMV should be good with arming every adult. Victor, Ballistic or Tactical?
cacman Offline
#621 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 11:00 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
tailgater wrote:
Arming teachers can not be considered a nation wide strategy.

Out in da' sticks they probably already carry.
Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts there would be almost as many riots as there were when Trump was elected.

Wrong. If the school is a Gun-Free Zone that also includes the teachers even if they have taken it upon themselves to legally acquire a Concealed Carry license.

If a teacher wants to pay for the Concealed Carry license themselves, buy their own firearm, then they should be allowed to protect themselves at their place of work. It should be up to the individual to decide, not their employer. if a teacher does choose to carry, it should not come at tax-payers expense.

If you have a Concealed Cary license, are you permitted to carry your firearm at work?
Or do you follow the premise that "what they don't know won't hurt them"?
HuckFinn Offline
#622 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 11:13 AM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
Wrong. If the school is a Gun-Free Zone that also includes the teachers even if they have taken it upon themselves to legally acquire a Concealed Carry license.

If a teacher wants to pay for the Concealed Carry license themselves, buy their own firearm, then they should be allowed to protect themselves at their place of work. It should be up to the individual to decide, not their employer. if a teacher does choose to carry, it should not come at tax-payers expense.

If you have a Concealed Cary license, are you permitted to carry your firearm at work?
Or do you follow the premise that "what they don't know won't hurt them"?

Depends on the state

http://concealednation.org/2015/11/the-legality-of-carrying-within-1000-feet-of-a-school-zone/
cacman Offline
#623 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 11:36 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
HuckFinn wrote:
Depends on the state

http://concealednation.org/2015/11/the-legality-of-carrying-within-1000-feet-of-a-school-zone/

There are exemptions to every law in every State.
Was speaking in general in regards to "the sticks".
victor809 Offline
#624 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 12:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Using that "logic" you wouldn't want to sell alcohol, automobiles or steak knives.


Don't be an idiot.

I want to sell all of it. Including nukes and weaponized smallpox.

I'm just constantly surprised by people's unwillingness to grasp that every other person in the US, no matter how stupid, is given the same rights they are. They express shock when these very stupid people do something with tools they have the right to have access to.

How many people have you seen on here express some major shock over a car wreck? A drunken driving accident? A stabbing? A teenage alcohol poisoning? It doesn't really happen. People apparently have a much better grasp on the risk. But someone goes on a shooting spree... "oh gee! how did that happen? I am so shocked! I must express all my prayers to the poor little childrens (who I never gave two thoughts about before, except maybe to make sure they couldn't be aborted) who are dead!" It's hilarious. And honestly, every time there is a school shooting I am treated to the most amazing display of hilarious actions. I suppose if I liked people I'd be more dismayed... but I get a kick out of these things.
tailgater Offline
#625 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 3:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
And we'll address the malicious high school alchohol poisonings, campus car attacks and bloody steak knife stabbings when they approach the same seriousness as mass shootings at schools.


Right here.

At cbid.


Just looking at the litmus test provided.

If you want to talk carnage then you'd be well served looking at the automobiles. A hell of a lot more kids die from cars than from AR-15's.
Not even close.

But if you want to talk heart-string-emotional-response du-jour, then yeah. let's just look at the small fraction of actual murders committed with AR-15s.
You know.
Until next week. When we'll find something else shiny. Like more Russia.
tailgater Offline
#626 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Don't be an idiot.

I want to sell all of it. Including nukes and weaponized smallpox.

I'm just constantly surprised by people's unwillingness to grasp that every other person in the US, no matter how stupid, is given the same rights they are. They express shock when these very stupid people do something with tools they have the right to have access to.

How many people have you seen on here express some major shock over a car wreck? A drunken driving accident? A stabbing? A teenage alcohol poisoning? It doesn't really happen. People apparently have a much better grasp on the risk. But someone goes on a shooting spree... "oh gee! how did that happen? I am so shocked! I must express all my prayers to the poor little childrens (who I never gave two thoughts about before, except maybe to make sure they couldn't be aborted) who are dead!" It's hilarious. And honestly, every time there is a school shooting I am treated to the most amazing display of hilarious actions. I suppose if I liked people I'd be more dismayed... but I get a kick out of these things.


As you may have surmised by now, I wasn't disagreeing with your sentiment. Just poking fun at how you arrived there.
Buckwheat Offline
#627 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
I didn't realize that this would become the new 500 thread. Some lively comments without much discussion. fog
DrafterX Offline
#628 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Up your nose with da rubber hose... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#629 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 3:57 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
How you guys can equate kids dying from car accidents and alcohol poisoning with being gunned down in classrooms by other kids is crazy to me.

Sure, the TV is constantly sentimentalizing and tugging at heart strings after shootings but, damn, that's mostly because we send our kids to school for only one reason, to get an education! Well, and to get them out of the house...

Isn't it totally unnatural for a kid to have to wonder if his school is next while sitting in a classroom? That's creepy...

Cars are murder/suicide machines. We grew up with morons drinking and driving and killing. How can you legislate that back to the stone age? Can't probably, I figure.
School shootings seem solvable to me.

Dumb chit, not so much.
cacman Offline
#630 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
^ Remember these kids where gunned down by an Adult. Not by other kids.
A deranged, obviously mentally ill Adult who provided numerous warnings he was going to do so, but was still allowed to legally purchase firearms.
HuckFinn Offline
#631 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
^ Remember these kids where gunned down by an Adult. Not by other kids.
A deranged, obviously mentally ill Adult who provided numerous warnings he was going to do so, but was still allowed to legally purchase firearms.

He was 19, right?

A kid, no?

And so what if he was enrolled in high school or was a few years post high school?
Aren't most if not all of the kids shot and their shooters classmates?
DrafterX Offline
#632 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
How many laws did the shooter break..?? I'm Ok with making it a little tougher to buy a gun... Confiscation or outlawing them is right out tho... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#633 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:41 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I like how people think that making new laws will stop people from breaking the law.


"I want to commit a mass murder but won't do it unless I can easily get an AR-15"
Said no lunatic ever.
victor809 Offline
#634 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
I like how people think that making new laws will stop people from breaking the law.


"I want to commit a mass murder but won't do it unless I can easily get an AR-15"
Said no lunatic ever.




right and wrong.

Making it marginally more difficult to acquire (through making it illegal, or expensive with taxation) would have some marginal impact on the school shooters at the edge. Maybe the ones with lower commitment to planning will use a handgun instead, because they're too lazy to get an AR... The super committed ones will still get it...

The question, as with every decision made at the margins, is what amount of laws or taxation or whatever, would lead to what percentage reduction in lives lost. And is it worth it.

I don't know the answer to the first question. My answer to the second question is always no, so I don't bother looking into the first too deeply. But to pretend the first is not a non-zero number is to lie to oneself.
Ewok126 Offline
#635 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
tailgater wrote:
I like how people think that making new laws will stop people from breaking the law.


"I want to commit a mass murder but won't do it unless I can easily get an AR-15"
Said no lunatic ever.




Ehh at this rate if you eat at the wrong time you will be breaking a law and lose all your rights.

It's just a matter of when some fat actor or actress falls and someone else will use that travisty to their agenda. All this because of how they despise fat people and they think they know what's best for someone else and want to force their beliefs, wants, and desires on everyone.


Just give it time.
RMAN4443 Offline
#636 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 4:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
right and wrong.

Making it marginally more difficult to acquire (through making it illegal, or expensive with taxation) would have some marginal impact on the school shooters at the edge. Maybe the ones with lower commitment to planning will use a handgun instead, because they're too lazy to get an AR... The super committed ones will still get it...

The question, as with every decision made at the margins, is what amount of laws or taxation or whatever, would lead to what percentage reduction in lives lost. And is it worth it.

I don't know the answer to the first question. My answer to the second question is always no, so I don't bother looking into the first too deeply. But to pretend the first is not a non-zero number is to lie to oneself.


And the really really super committed ones will plant a bomb on a school bus and wait for it to fill up before detonating, or get into the kitchen and poison the food, or get into the furnace room and blow up the fuel tanks, or any of a dozen other ways to cause carnage...... they would have to be really really committed though, but with all the creative ways to kill lots of people in video games and on the internet, you don't really have to think very hard to devise new and improved methods, just read a few pages from "The Anarchist Cookbook", and your on your way.........
HuckFinn Offline
#637 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:04 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Ewok126 wrote:
Ehh at this rate if you eat at the wrong time you will be breaking a law and lose all your rights.

It's just a matter of when some fat actor or actress falls and someone else will use that travisty to their agenda. All this because of how they despise fat people and they think they know what's best for someone else and want to force their beliefs, wants, and desires on everyone.


Just give it time.

Absurd. There is no wrong time to eat. Ever!
Gluttons Unite!
HuckFinn Offline
#638 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
It'll probably require a long laundry list of new and unexplored ideas and applications we have try to reverse the trend of shootings: smarter gun laws/restrictions, in-school psychologists, adult education, who knows.

But new gun laws have to be part of what happens next I think.
And I like shooting em.
DrafterX Offline
#639 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
We don't need more laws... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#640 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
We don't need more laws... Mellow

What do we need?
DrafterX Offline
#641 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Parents to teach kids right from wrong for one thing... Maybe take them to Church... Maybe allow prayer and the pledge of allegiance back into schools.. give them something to be proud of..
but it's not just kids.. you have adults thinking they're doing the world a favor by shooting cops and senators and stuff cause the press calls them evil..

There's lots of stuff we need but more laws are not... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#642 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Parents to teach kids right from wrong for one thing... Maybe take them to Church... Maybe allow prayer and the pledge of allegiance back into schools.. give them something to be proud of..
but it's not just kids.. you have adults thinking they're doing the world a favor by shooting cops and senators and stuff cause the press calls them evil..

There's lots of stuff we need but more laws are not... Mellow


You're gonna start telling people how to raise their kids now?

I thought this was america.
HuckFinn Offline
#643 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 5:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
Parents to teach kids right from wrong for one thing... Maybe take them to Church... Maybe allow prayer and the pledge of allegiance back into schools.. give them something to be proud of..
but it's not just kids.. you have adults thinking they're doing the world a favor by shooting cops and senators and stuff cause the press calls them evil..

There's lots of stuff we need but more laws are not... Mellow

Parents are as likely single parents as with a partner, probably working a job or 2. A lot of kids go unsupervised these days, right?
Instilling pride in kids is an admirable goal, but that mentally unbalanced kid needs a lot more than that. We can try and single him out and do better in the future but we need immediate strategies. Make it harder for him to get his hands on a semi automatic weapon is common sense imo.

Can't blame just the media, politicians, the parents, lack of church...imo
it's a combination of many things that contribute to this indifference some kids feel and act on.
Brewha Offline
#644 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
victor809 wrote:
You're gonna start telling people how to raise their kids now?

I thought this was america.

Really, I mean that’s why we have churches, mother in laws, and FoxNews....
Brewha Offline
#645 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
DrafterX wrote:
We don't need more laws... Mellow

Tell that to the parents of the dead kids.

I double dog dare you.....
paulkeck Offline
#646 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Tell that to the parents of the dead kids.

I double dog dare you.....

We need the death penalty...
Brewha Offline
#647 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
paulkeck wrote:
We need the death penalty...

Not me - I didn’t do nothin’!
paulkeck Offline
#648 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
Brewha wrote:
Not me - I didn’t do nothin’!

You're the main culprit
Brewha Offline
#649 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
ZRX1200 wrote:
I think Brewha must have seen the footage jack wagon had of the .223 going through the 8"plate.......


Teedubya, SCOTUS said law enforcement has no obligation to help.

It could happen.

If it was shot from space.

In a vacuum.

Through a partial accelerator.....
Brewha Offline
#650 Posted: Fri, Feb 23 2018, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
paulkeck wrote:
You're the main culprit

Stool pigeon.
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