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Special counsel Mueller indicts 13 Russians with interfering in 2016 U.S. election
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banderl Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153


Thirteen Russian nationals have been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of interfering in the 2016 presidential election — including supporting Donald Trump's campaign and "disparaging" Hillary Clinton, special counsel Robert Mueller announced Friday.

The indictments — part of Mueller's ongoing investigation — are the first tied directly to Russian meddling in the race for the White House.

"Some defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities," the indictment says.
[Mueller indicts Russians for election meddling, but will they be brought to court?]
Mueller indicts Russians for election meddling, but will they be brought to court? 6:27

Some of those charged also "posted derogatory information" about candidates in the GOP primaries, including Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio — and, by the time of the general election, the Russians' efforts included "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaging Hillary Clinton," the indictment stated.

Some defendants also traveled to America to collect intelligence and to reach a significant "number of Americans for purposes of interfering with the U.S. political system, including the presidential election of 2016," Mueller's office charged.

The indictment charges all of the defendants and three Russian entities with conspiracy to defraud the U.S., three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and five with aggravated identity theft.

"From in or around 2014 to the present, Defendants knowingly and intentionally conspired with each other (and with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury) to defraud the United States by impairing, obstructing, and defeating the lawful functions of the government through fraud and deceit for the purpose of interfering with the U.S. political and electoral processes, including the presidential election of 2016,"

The indictment does not allege that any Americans had knowledge of what the Russians were doing.

A White House official told NBC News that Trump was on Friday morning personally briefed on the indictments by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray.

Trump has previously and repeatedly slammed the Russia probe as a "hoax" and a "witch hunt."

At a press conference announcing the indictment, Rosenstein said the indictment "is a reminder that people aren't always who they appear to be on the Internet."
teedubbya Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 2:04 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It also is clear there was to this point no Americans wittingly cooperating or involved. I hope in the end this holds true and trump himself remains clean. I think that’s best for the country.
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 2:10 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is now little to no doubt about Russian meddling however. Those denials now seem like fake news.
banderl Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
It also is clear there was to this point no Americans wittingly cooperating or involved.



Not yet, doesn't mean that there are not other indictments coming in the future.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 2:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Possibly. I hope not. But if it happened so be it.

That said there’s what we know and assumptions. This is what we know.
banderl Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Rosenstein: Russians paid, recruited Americans
Speyside Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Tip of the iceberg?
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He was very clear in the unwitting part. It’s clear what you want, it’s not there yet. Maybe later, maybe not. I hope not.
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
It was very clear but I expected it to be overlooked... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If trump’s folks or trump did something wrong I want them to go down hard. If they didn’t I hope the investigation shows that. I really don’t get the folks wanting guilt, or the ones not wanting no investigation.

Mueller is a straight shooter no matter how much folks want to vilify him.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
He was very clear in the unwitting part. It’s clear what you want, it’s not there yet. Maybe later, maybe not. I hope not.

yup
would be best for the country, regardless of who is in office.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
frankj1 wrote:
yup
would be best for the country, regardless of who is in office.


But, Pence would be a disaster.
banderl Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Mike "I know nothing" Pence is a disaster.




So what's up with those sanctions?
banderl Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
The Propaganda Minister's response to the indictments:

“President Donald J. Trump has been fully briefed on this matter and is glad to see the Special Counsel’s investigation further indicates — that there was NO COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Russia and that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected,” the White House said in a statement.

LMFAO
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
If Hillary stood up and said Trump was innocent and she made it all up would that change anything in your mind..?? Huh
Phil222 Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
banderl wrote:
So what's up with those sanctions?


Good point. I'm interested in seeing what his move will be in regards to those now.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
If Hillary stood up and said Trump was innocent and she made it all up would that change anything in your mind..?? Huh



I hope he is and it is proven true. We don’t know that yet so there really is no reason to decide either way. Just support instead of attacking the investigation and let’s find out.
banderl Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
DrafterX wrote:
If Hillary stood up and said Trump was innocent and she made it all up would that change anything in your mind..?? Huh



I didn't vote for Hillary and she's not the president.
Why do you keep bringing her up?
Are you a Russian bot?
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:37 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He’s only a man, he’s only a man

Drago = drafter?
HuckFinn Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
I agree, let the chips fall where they may.

I want it to be done with.

I can't help but worry that if Mueller does have damning evidence that he'll be fired.
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
You guys would be disappointed if I didn't bring up Hillary.. Laugh
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 5:11 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
True, true. I hope for the counties sake that president Trump, and other high ranking officials are exonerated. But I do want the truth to come out most of all.
Brewha Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
DrafterX wrote:
You guys would be disappointed if I didn't bring up Hillary.. Laugh

Ok - he’s got us there......
HuckFinn Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
You guys would be disappointed if I didn't bring up Hillary.. Laugh

Hmm, can you test that theory?
Brewha Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 5:31 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,170
No, no....he really can’t.....
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 5:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Laugh
deadeyedick Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,087
If disparaging Hillary Clinton is all you got you need to indict millions. Some of you guys are going down!
tailgater Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:05 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
banderl wrote:
Not yet, doesn't mean that there are not other indictments coming in the future.


Can you read?
The reports say "no Americans involved".
It doesn't say "we don't know and we might have other indictments later."

Oh.
Sorry.
Didn't see it was bandy's post.

Carry on.
tailgater Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
There is now little to no doubt about Russian meddling however. Those denials now seem like fake news.


I don't see the denials as "fake news".

If someone wasn't involved, but were accused of collusion, they'd deny it.
How is that fake news?

Or if they're not involved then they wouldn't know the Russians were even doing anything.
Again, their denial would not be "fake".

In fact, in hindsight we could call the accusations themselves as "fake news" and that would be correct.

I doubt we'll see any retractions from either side.
banderl Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
tailgater wrote:
Can you read?
The reports say "no Americans involved".
It doesn't say "we don't know and we might have other indictments later."

Oh.
Sorry.
Didn't see it was bandy's post.

Carry on.




I can read, obviously you're incapable of such.
The indictment does not say that no Americans were involved.

Start with researching this:
Rosenstein: Russians paid, recruited Americans
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
Can you read?
The reports say "no Americans involved".
It doesn't say "we don't know and we might have other indictments later."

Oh.
Sorry.
Didn't see it was bandy's post.

Carry on.



it does not say "no Americans involved"as though that is an official finding...and no one knows if there won't be more indictments...certainly not from just the op.

eventually this will be concluded, that's when we will all know.
teedubbya Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Russian meddling as a whole has been denied. Not just collusion. Trump should have been going after the interference but hasn’t.

Granted he’s morphed, but he has been denying the interference at all. As have some in here.

And Americans were involved according to Rod Rosenstein. The key word was unwittingly. But there are involved.

The investigation isn’t over.

I hope Trump and those close to him are exonerated. We will see.

But the investigation is worthwhile.
banderl Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Frank, how can you hang with that retard?
Especially when he has that orange man juice hanging off of his chins.
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:24 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
“No Americans were involved” is fake news.
banderl Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:26 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
“No Americans were involved” is fake news.



Tailgater needs to change his newspaper subscription.
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
on this indightment there isn’t any evidence that any American is a knowing participant is very different than no Americans were involved. And it goes further to show Americans involved unwittingly.
banderl Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
on this indightment there isn’t any evidence that any American is a knowing participant is very different than no Americans were involved. And it goes further to show Americans involved unwittingly.



This is just a small slice of the pie.
tailgater Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
banderl wrote:
I can read, obviously you're incapable of such.
The indictment does not say that no Americans were involved.

Start with researching this:
Rosenstein: Russians paid, recruited Americans


From that conservative bastion known as CNN.com:

Rosenstein said Friday that the indictment does not contain any allegations that any Americans knowingly participated in the activity.
"There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity," he said. "There is no allegation in the indictment that the charge conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election."

Perhaps I could have worded it differently.
But there it is.
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
banderl wrote:
Frank, how can you hang with that retard?
Especially when he has that orange man juice hanging off of his chins.


You're a class act.
HuckFinn Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Is this how you guys burn off calories?
banderl Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
tailgater wrote:
Can you read?
The reports say "no Americans involved".
It doesn't say "we don't know and we might have other indictments later."

Oh.
Sorry.
Didn't see it was bandy's post.

Carry on.





Here's what you said.
You supposedly possess some level of basic intelligence.
Try to figure out the difference.
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
banderl wrote:
Frank, how can you hang with that retard?
Especially when he has that orange man juice hanging off of his chins.

Simple, he's a great guy, lots of fun, very generous...he happens to have different opinions on several topics, some political, some not political, he normally has a solid foundation for his beliefs so it isn't just white noise and usually presented in an interesting manner...and he's not my only friend that shares those opinions...and certainly we still disagree often.

So what?

I simply could never limit my social life to those already aligned with my beliefs. Though I have many friends that fit that description as well, I'd be cheating myself out of the opportunity to perhaps learn about and look at things from perspectives that I had not considered. Views that not only help me grow as a person but make me question what I have always held true in ways that sometimes strengthen my beliefs, sometimes enhance my knowledge, sometimes change my mind, and hopefully make me a better and more tolerant human being.

Meeting some who post here has taught me the difference between the real person posting and just the writer of posts. Ironically, Joe contacted me soon after my initial involvement here and cautioned me to be aware that it is easy to read the written word in a voice not intended. It was good advice for here and other places.

sorry for the meandering answer...I'll just sum it up with this: Joe, will you marry me?
banderl Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
frankj1 wrote:
Simple, he's a great guy, lots of fun, very generous...he happens to have different opinions on several topics, some political, some not political, he normally has a solid foundation for his beliefs so it isn't just white noise and usually presented in an interesting manner...and he's not my only friend that shares those opinions...and certainly we still disagree often.

So what?

I simply could never limit my social life to those already aligned with my beliefs. Though I have many friends that fit that description as well, I'd be cheating myself out of the opportunity to perhaps learn about and look at things from perspectives that I had not considered. Views that not only help me grow as a person but make me question what I have always held true in ways that sometimes strengthen my beliefs, sometimes enhance my knowledge, sometimes change my mind, and hopefully make me a better and more tolerant human being.

Meeting some who post here has taught me the difference between the real person posting and just the writer of posts. Ironically, Joe contacted me soon after my initial involvement here and cautioned me to be aware that it is easy to read the written word in a voice not intended. It was good advice for here and other places.

sorry for the meandering answer...I'll just sum it up with this: Joe, will you marry me?



Sorry, Frank.
He's in love with a pumpkin colored and shaped imbecile.
tailgater Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
banderl wrote:
Here's what you said.
You supposedly possess some level of basic intelligence.
Try to figure out the difference.


Uh, that's why I said I could have worded it better.

smh
banderl Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:51 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
tailgater wrote:
Uh, that's why I said I could have worded it better.

smh




You run with that.
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
Simple, he's a great guy, lots of fun, very generous...he happens to have different opinions on several topics, some political, some not political, he normally has a solid foundation for his beliefs so it isn't just white noise and usually presented in an interesting manner...and he's not my only friend that shares those opinions...and certainly we still disagree often.

So what?

I simply could never limit my social life to those already aligned with my beliefs. Though I have many friends that fit that description as well, I'd be cheating myself out of the opportunity to perhaps learn about and look at things from perspectives that I had not considered. Views that not only help me grow as a person but make me question what I have always held true in ways that sometimes strengthen my beliefs, sometimes enhance my knowledge, sometimes change my mind, and hopefully make me a better and more tolerant human being.

Meeting some who post here has taught me the difference between the real person posting and just the writer of posts. Ironically, Joe contacted me soon after my initial involvement here and cautioned me to be aware that it is easy to read the written word in a voice not intended. It was good advice for here and other places.

sorry for the meandering answer...I'll just sum it up with this: Joe, will you marry me?


You had me at "simple".
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
You had me at "simple".



so Bob, how can you not be charmed by that shtick?
banderl Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 8:06 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
frankj1 wrote:
so Bob, how can you not be charmed by that shtick?



Real cute.
If he wasn't so misinformed about everything, I'd have a beer with him.
HuckFinn Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
banderl wrote:
Real cute.
If he wasn't so misinformed about everything, I'd have a beer with him.

I suspect he'd change his politics if you're buyin'
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Feb 16 2018, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Tail is surrounded by libs. I’d be nutty to lol.

Jk tail. We all see things the way we see things.

I do see a bigot or two in here very clearly. Tail may see none or not beleive it. The problem is if you associate the bigots with tail or insinuate he is one then I’d get defensive too.

And if the bigots hide behind the non bigots and use similar rhetoric it gets ugly.
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