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Defining Everyday, Premium, and Super Premium Cigars
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delta1 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
Distinguishing between everyday, premium and super premium cigars has become a topic of conversation in the Trades section of this forum. Seems everybody agrees/knows what a dog-rocket is... but there isn't a clear cut universally accepted definition of what constitutes a:

1) good everyday cigar
2) premium cigar
3) super premium cigar


This is especially pertinent when trades are proposed, wagers are made, and contest antes are set.

Some have used dollar values: less than $5 = everyday; $6-$10 = premium; more than $10 = super premium


Others have used "special occasion" to define super premium. Prime quality. These are the best of the best in one's stash and saved for special occasions, to be savored during a memorable event, usually in social settings.

Premium are the second tier of prime cigars, for those times when you can sit back and enjoy a smoke and drink without distractions, and it would be considered a waste if you couldn't finish the cigar.

Yard-gar seems to be interchangeable with everyday, being a cigar that is solid enough to enjoy while doing something else (gardening, shop-work, fishing, walking) but not so valued that it is not a big deal if interrupted or damaged before the finish.

Your thoughts...
KingoftheCove Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,630
Good - one that I'll spend money on regularly
Premium - one that I will buy on rare occasions
Super Premium - one that I can't afford
bgz Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
It's tough to say really, on my last payout for Drafter's super premium contest included:

4 x Padron Exclusivos
1 x Padron 85 year maduro
1 x Opus
1 x Anejo
1 x Melanio
1 x LG Small Batch

(and the rest I don't remember, thought I could remember them all, I believe there were 3 others).

Anyway, when I think of super premiums, I think of the above.

Anything more than that, I would consider to be ultra premium or some other adjective... Padron 1926+, $20 plus fuentes like larger Opus, GOF,, Davidoffs, Cohibas (cc), etc...

I guess some people would consider LE stuff to be more ultra premiums, but I don't really play the le game.

Normal Premiums, Most tats, Padrons and smaller 64s, most Fuentes, LFDs, etc... (I know, I'm naming all the stuff I like).

Everydays: (good cigars you can get here and elsewhere for $6 and under that may or may not retail for a lot more).

All avoiding crap that our snob azzes don't like... like Gurkha, General, Altidas, and a bunch of other random crap like Red Dot Cohibas.

A lot of solid BOTL helped me distinguish what was what when I first came on the boards, and the above is my interpretation of it.
Ewok126 Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
Well I guess KOC is speaking more my language.
bgz Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:49 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
This subject comes up often. I like Delta's idea for having a thread dedicated it, because even now after being on the boards several years, I still get confused on what people are envisioning as being premium / super premiums.

For noobs coming in, I could see this thread as something that gets bumped from time to time if we can get a good amount of input on it.

Edit:

Also it's very subjective. For me, I don't think I've ever had a broadleaf cigar that I would consider ultra premium, but I know a lot of guys around here, broadleaf is one of their favorite wrappers and would bash my head in with a Louisville Slugger if I said it in their presence. That's what makes defining such things difficult.
gummy jones Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
My experience has been that it's not just noobs that would benefit from some solid guidelines
bgz Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 4:55 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya man, that's my point. It's tough to define things that are subjective.
corey sellers Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,351
The melanio is a great smoke but I would think of it as a premium. Because of price under 10 bucks but over 7 and what price do you go by msrp or what you can get them for.

Always like examples of what is expected when joining high end contest.
bgz Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 5:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Depends on the Melanio. I did think of that though, and it was offset by the Padron FR 85 year...

But Melanio is one of my favs so when I send somebody something, there's usually a Melanio in it ;)

Similarly, a corona sized opus probably wouldn't be considered an ultra premium, but a Perfection X #2 would.
corey sellers Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Apr 12 2018, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,351
I agree with you on the Opus , I always look at what you would straight out pay for a smoke with out a sale or auction when thinking about classification.
Hank_The_Tank Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 11-15-2016
Posts: 3,677
Wouldn't it be easier to just go by standard MSRP (with the exception of Gurkha and I am sure there are others in the same category). The prices per level may be inflated because of this, but could still give you a good idea. That would be for all of the non-CC cigars. So probably a different scale would be needed for CC's and aged CC's.

Would ultra premiums be the same as unicorns or would unicorns be above ultra premiums.

Definitely think that dog rockets should be under everyday smokes...maybe even have a category below that of unsmokeables. haha It would be cool if an actual list was created.

As for the Melanio, I think that it is right at the line between being premium or under. Maybe a list like this:

Unsmokeables
Dog Rockets
Everyday cigars
Low End Premiums
Premiums
Super Premiums
Ultra Premiums
Pink Unicorns that shat rainbows
bgz Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 8:45 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Over complicating it dude. I would consider the Melanio robusto to be a normal premium, but I would consider the figurado/churchill/torpedo version of it to be inline with other cigars at the 10+ range.

Can't really go by MSRP, because Gurkha isn't the only $10+ cigar you can regularly get for $2 :P

I mean, for us here that regularly buys MB3s for $3 per, which have a $10 price tag... would you be happy receiving them in a $10+ bet?

Then you have things like some Fuentes have < than $10 price tags that everyone would be totally stoked to get in a $10+ bet.

That's what makes it hard to define.

Edit:

I probably got too much input on this thing now, need FOGS to jump in here and throw some input in on it...
corey sellers Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 8:54 AM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,351
MB3 now what in the hell would that be .Great smoke but can be had cheap. This is where it gets difficult I would not want to receive them in $ 10 bet. There are alot more smokes that fall into the same category with them.
stinger88 Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 8:59 AM EST
Joined: 05-29-2012
Posts: 6,574
Tough topic.

Not to mention cigars that can no longer be found. The La Perla with the purple band is a prime example. When originally released it was an everyday smoke but now, years later, I would personally put it up in the premium/super premium. One because I really like them and two they are near impossible to find.

Like Ben says, it really is tough to say. When I started out, I definitely needed help on figuring it out. Now that I have been on here awhile, if I owe cigars, I always try to lean on the heavier side. I would rather be guilty of over "paying" than under "paying". Hopefully no one has ever felt slighted by my end of a trade. That is my objective. If I don't have what I think fits into the category of trade/wager, then I don't play.

David
stinger88 Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:00 AM EST
Joined: 05-29-2012
Posts: 6,574
corey sellers wrote:
MB3 now what in the hell would that be .Great smoke but can be had cheap. This is where it gets difficult I would not want to receive them in $ 10 bet. There are alot more smokes that fall into the same category with them.

On the other hand if it was an MB 1 or 2, I would gladly accept in a $10+. Herfing
corey sellers Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:03 AM EST
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,351
On the last premium contest I was in I actually ordered cigars for it just to make sure of pricing don't like cheating anyone
KingoftheCove Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:37 AM EST
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,630
corey sellers wrote:
MB3 now what in the hell would that be .Great smoke but can be had cheap. This is where it gets difficult I would not want to receive them in $ 10 bet. There are alot more smokes that fall into the same category with them.

Exactly, but like Stinger said, sometimes a long nap can turn some "cheap" cigars into something approaching a premium.
I have 4 year old MB3s that are amazing, 5 year old Davidoff Camacho triple maddies that are even better.
Early Davidoff Camacho Corojos, Eiora Camacho Corojos, and so on.
Paid $3ish for all of them, would not even consider selling them at less that $10/ea.
Just Relax Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:51 AM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Here's what I think I've learned.

The price of a cigar is typically valued at what is the everyday price a 5er can be had online. So an $11 cigar at a b&m doesn't classify as a premium which in most instances seems to be understood at $10 because typically the 5er price online on that cigar will be $8-9. It will qualify as a favorable mid-range smoke. However, with time as the cello yellows this cigar can move to the premium category especially if interest is high or the value of the OR over current production is known. This holds true moving down to the over $5 (mid range) trade class as well.

Premiums are typically over $10 for the common online 5er price or cubans that sell over $10 at single price and to me seems pretty straightforward. Ultra premiums to me are cigars that can't just be bought like an aged premium or are approaching $20 and up typical purchase price. OR cigars no matter what price point they sold for that are highly desirable can also fit in this category - the unicorn.

A friendly trade would be pretty much any cigar that can't be had on cbid auction regularly at a rock bottom price. If a guy on here likes those he already has a ton anyway.

Most competition trades usually ask for friendly, mid range, premium, or ultra/super and those are the guidelines I think of.

Edit:

Mid range cigars typically consist of cigars in the $6-10 range and seem to be the most commonly traded. Cubans under $10 for single would be in this category as well as the Melanio as discussed above. Typically when entering the contest try to think about what you'd be happy receiving. Sending 5 $6 cigars in this trade will be considered on the light end.
Hank_The_Tank Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 11-15-2016
Posts: 3,677
It would be awesome if we could start compiling a list in excel or something, based on non-aged cigars.
Just Relax Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 11:49 AM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
Rereading I do agree that a standard labeling of the classes may need clarified as I see a disconnect in labeling. I do think the price premise is pretty well established though.

$5 non cbid discounted auction everyday smokes = ?
$6-10 common everyday price = ?
over $10 common everyday price = ?

is there another tier like ulta/super and what is the guideline?

Hmmm but then some guys post $8-12 contests.... meaning keep the cigars around $10.

Maybe the best idea is to stop using labels of premium, etc and put the pricing of what is expected in.
gummy jones Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 12:25 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
I think rule number 1b or 2 is obviously "send what you would want to receive"
tonygraz Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,222
The quality of cigar is best judged by personal preference. What one person likes, others may dislike. I keep a spreadsheet of cigars I have smoked with ratings, source, purchase date and in the past few years price paid. I started it to keep a record so I do not buy lousy cigars and don't pay to much for the ones I like. Prices vary sometimes wildly on specific cigars and I don't want to overpay or overbid for anything I buy. Unitil the website change, I bought most cigars from CBID but now I do almost all my buying elsewhere.
Just Relax Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 09-26-2016
Posts: 587
The weather has turned and I can't keep focused on work.

Here's my thoughts on making a standard from thinking what I've seen most common, in my earlier post I likely didn't classify properly:


Friendly = around $5 price point; no dog rockets/common cbid bottom dollar auctions

Premium = $6-10 price point; use common online pricing before S&H;

Elitist = over $10 price point; use common online pricing before S&H, notable aged premiums could be considered

If someone wants to go above this level, specifics should be given in the post.



The best judgment to use is what would you want to receive. Know going in that typically a 5er will not be a 5er and the BOTL on here typically go above and beyond the requirements. Also don't think you have to go overboard because everyone else does. Sending a quality 5er in the range should be all that is expected. Keep in mind the top end of the range should be approached with at least one of the cigars. Sending 5 at the minimum end of the requirement is not in the range.
Abrignac Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 7:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,252
Super Premium should be hard to find smokes of superior quality. For the most part I prefer Anejo's, Opus' and ISOM and the like. Though Anjeo's are generally priced north of $10 they certainly shouldn't be considered a Super Premium. However, a HTH BBMF, certian Limitadas etc... seems to fit the bill.
bgz Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 7:05 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
^ Elitist
Abrignac Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 8:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,252
bgz wrote:
^ Elitist


If I lit Behike's with fresh crisp 100's then I could be an Elitist.

fog
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
wrinkled 100's still count
frankj1 Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Apr 13 2018, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
and just like with cars, MSRP is meaningless. An insult actually. A fake starting point from which to claim discounts.
joeman Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Apr 16 2018, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 26
I have found using price as the difference between special and ordinary cigars yields mixed results. Doesn't mean a thing. I've smoked $30+ dog rockets and $2 diamonds. There is no reason to smoke garbage in any case because price is really not a factor. I would smoke a $5 AJ Fernandez Last Call as a small celebratory smoke over a $35 Davidoff Signature which according to my taste is a dog rocket. In other words smoke what you like and fear not the price initially.
JGKAMIN Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Apr 16 2018, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 05-08-2011
Posts: 1,400
frankj1 wrote:
and just like with cars, MSRP is meaningless. An insult actually. A fake starting point from which to claim discounts.

True dat, it’s meaningless when you see Gurkha cigars and the MSRP of $99.95 yet always 90% off.
Whistlebritches Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Apr 16 2018, 8:46 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
IMHO a well aged premium falls into a category all its own......same with most Habano's regardless of pedigree.My Tat Especiales with 5+ years will rival most Habano's in my opinion.How many have smoked a Camacho 10th Anniversary with 10+ years of age?An LFD from almost any of Litto's lines with 5-7 years of age?Same with many of the Habano regular line........Partagas PCE's,RyJ Coronito's en Cedro,H. Upmann PC's,Ramon Allones Small Club Corona's.........all with 7-10 years on them.

I suppose my question is......would anyone here feel slighted if any of the above is what they received from a SP bet?

BTW I just broke out a Camacho 10th Anni robusto from 08..........absolutely one of the smoothest cigars ever rolled.
MACS Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Apr 16 2018, 10:31 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,729
I believe this all boils down to taste.

What one smoker loves, another may just like. What one considers a holy grail, another may deem as an everyday smoke. Where are you in your smoking experience? What do you like? What does your trade partner like?

This is a question that begs a conversation between trading parties. Make a deal. Trade. This is why I got out of the 'trades' realm and went to the 'bomb' realm. Trades means you expect an equitable return. A bomb is a gift.

If you're uncomfortable... don't do it.
bgz Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Apr 18 2018, 10:13 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Whistlebritches wrote:
IMHO a well aged premium falls into a category all its own......same with most Habano's regardless of pedigree.My Tat Especiales with 5+ years will rival most Habano's in my opinion.How many have smoked a Camacho 10th Anniversary with 10+ years of age?An LFD from almost any of Litto's lines with 5-7 years of age?Same with many of the Habano regular line........Partagas PCE's,RyJ Coronito's en Cedro,H. Upmann PC's,Ramon Allones Small Club Corona's.........all with 7-10 years on them.

I suppose my question is......would anyone here feel slighted if any of the above is what they received from a SP bet?

BTW I just broke out a Camacho 10th Anni robusto from 08..........absolutely one of the smoothest cigars ever rolled.


Found a bunch of these about a month ago on the bargain table at a local shop. Saw a bunch of dateless LG Diez of various sizes on the bargain table. Talked him down another 25 percent.

I'm not really into smokes with a lot of time on them for the most part, but the LGs and LFDs with some age on them are pretty damn good for me. They retain some of their kick and pack a bunch of flavor.

Most cigars with a lot of age on them don't really do it for me, especially CCs. I smoked a monte #2 last week that I found in the bottom of one of my drawers that I've had for several years. It pretty much lost all it's strength, I was a little bummed about it. I mean, it was still good, but it lost it's kick.

The sweet spot for me for CCs is ROTT to a couple years, after that, I'm not the biggest fan. Obviously there are exceptions to this... a few of smokes that Buckwheat and a few other BOTL have sent me have been great (a Siglo VI is the one popping into my head right now and it was phenomenal).

MACS wrote:
I believe this all boils down to taste.

What one smoker loves, another may just like. What one considers a holy grail, another may deem as an everyday smoke. Where are you in your smoking experience? What do you like? What does your trade partner like?

This is a question that begs a conversation between trading parties. Make a deal. Trade. This is why I got out of the 'trades' realm and went to the 'bomb' realm. Trades means you expect an equitable return. A bomb is a gift.

If you're uncomfortable... don't do it.


This man speaks with truth and wisdom. Another negative for me in the trade game is totally unrelated... I talk a lot of sh1t, so it's probably best if my address isn't floating around, lol.
joeman Offline
#34 Posted: Wed, Apr 18 2018, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 26
bgz wrote:
Found a bunch of these about a month ago on the bargain table at a local shop. Saw a bunch of dateless LG Diez of various sizes on the bargain table. Talked him down another 25 percent.

I'm not really into smokes with a lot of time on them for the most part, but the LGs and LFDs with some age on them are pretty damn good for me. They retain some of their kick and pack a bunch of flavor.

Most cigars with a lot of age on them don't really do it for me, especially CCs. I smoked a monte #2 last week that I found in the bottom of one of my drawers that I've had for several years. It pretty much lost all it's strength, I was a little bummed about it. I mean, it was still good, but it lost it's kick.

The sweet spot for me for CCs is ROTT to a couple years, after that, I'm not the biggest fan. Obviously there are exceptions to this... a few of smokes that Buckwheat and a few other BOTL have sent me have been great (a Siglo VI is the one popping into my head right now and it was phenomenal).



This man speaks with truth and wisdom. Another negative for me in the trade game is totally unrelated... I talk a lot of sh1t, so it's probably best if my address isn't floating around, lol.


Experimentation is what the fun of this is all about! When I buy boxes, I always smoke a few right away, or after acclimatization if they are shipped a long way (about a month). If I don't like them right then and there, I revisit them every few months thereafter. Sometimes they end up losing their magic, other times they turn into pure magic. It's fun to see. Of CCs I find the Montes do benefit the most from age as do their Partagas and Bolivar brethren. The others, YMMV. You give a classic example though, with your Monte #2 experience, of what happens when you miss the prime window. Some people though are relieved to lose the strength because their tastes tend to be more in the mild-medium range. I'm a full-bodied/full-strength smoker like yourself, so for me finding the window is more about experimenting.

LGs and LFD in general, the longer the better. Tatuaje's and others from My Father I find have a shorter window. CCs to me smoke best 1-2 years old. I'm guessing here, but I'd say AJ Fernandez and CLEs probably in that 1-2 year window as well. All of the above mentioned cigars are all good to go for me right off the truck, but I'm learning more about them the more I collect. A lot of Steve Saka's cigars smoke best right around the 1 year mark for my tastes, though again them are great right off the truck.
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