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The whole idea was to put the US in the best position to bring peace to the region, negotiating a peace agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians...


Guess no one told, or invited, the Palestinians...seems like we have clearly taken sides here, leaving peace orphaned again...


Well done, Jared...

1) The "Palestinians" aren't interested in peace.
2) Aren't embassies usually in national capital cities?

The Palestinians definitely want peace... but as I've heard it explained "first we take care of Saturday, then we'll take care of Sunday"... meaning peace comes after, first, the death of the Jews, then the death of the Christians... it's a sad situation...

I think internationally a lot has been done to create this possibility. A lot of trades were recently made with Saudi, Ægypt, Lebanon, et cetera starting at the beginning of Trump's term. Y'know they did all this terrorist negotiation and all of a sudden Oman was caught funding some bad stuff, Al Jazeera kinda had a muzzle forced on them and now there's anti-terrorism offices all over the middle east ran jointly by the US and our network of Middle Eastern allies. To me that's what created this atmosphere where perhaps some of our key allies are willing to make some concessions to allow this to happen.

It's been a long time coming. The Jews need this to be resolved already. As always this is going to be a bittersweet thing because of the nature of the situation but I give my 100% support in favor of Israel.

I don’t support unarmed protesters being gunned down no matter what their beliefs.

I never stated that I believed they were all unarmed; some were throwing rocks and stuff…guess they deserved to die.

Over 60 Palestinian protestors dead, closing in on almost 3,000 injured (maybe more by now??).
Israeli soldiers killed or injured = 0.

You blame Israel for this? Hamas is where your infuriation should be pointed.

Kinda hard to figure that one out considering how many women he raped.

Is it rape if Allah told him to do it..??

I used to be of the mindset that Israel was always right and the Palestinians were always wrong. I was pretty set on that and thought the rest of the world was wrong, especially the UN and the need for the US to veto certain things was because we were right and they were wrong. Funny how when China or Russia do that they are wrong.

The person that made me rethink the issue was LeHockeyDad. He made some very valid points, knows the history and based his opinion on facts (rather than blame Hamas without anything to back it up). I suspect he has not only read a lot, but has experience in the area through travel and actual discussions with folks directly involved. I could be wrong.

He didn't swing me to the Israel is bad side, but did move me far away from they are pious. They are not. One thing for sure is to be an everyday Palestinian living in the area (not a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer) is to be a prisoner of Israel. There is no freedom of movement, there is no freedom to work or choose housing, there is no freedom to trade or create markets, and there is no freedom of human dignity. You can argue Israel has to do that for their own security (or justify shooting unarmed protesters) but that does not change the facts on the ground. As for Hamas, its no wonder some Palestinians support them given their forced living conditions. That doesn't justify it but it does give you some understanding of why.

As long as there is a hard line Israeli security (or oppression) position, or an hard line death to Israel (or we want our freedom and land back) movement there will be trouble. Both sides are convinced they are absolutely right and we over here choose one or the other. Neither is pure, neither is right.

If forced I'll back Israel, but they are pretty douchey at times. We should be more center of the road or neutral if we want to broker peace (if that is possible), and there will be no instant gratification in that. If you want a quick resolution it aint commin. If we've given up on that and are choosing sides I too would choose Israel. But lets not pretend.

yea I know. I'm not asking for deep thinking or rational thought. Those are not components of current political thinking on either side of the aisle on any topic. The sad part is we mimic the problem in here most of the time.

I'm on team jacob. he's dreamy.

Summed it all up. Want Peace? Bring Peace. Those barriers and checkpoints can be removed, the mindset that's festered there sadly hasn't. When will the people that live under Hamas authority finally decide that their leadership is garbage? It's time to end the US gravy train there too.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

agreed

catch 22. neither side is pure.

Nobody has said that they're pure.

Israel has taken steps to protect their nation and it's citizens as they should.

Palestinians are still sticking with their formula for poverty by setting up mortars in schoolyards/hospitals, sending children and women with bomb vests into shopping areas. Can't keep crying for them when they're unwilling to change leadership or usher in a new message. They're doubling down on a terrorist mindset that isn't going to produce anything viable. Their message has become one of being a victim that they choose to be.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/how-hamas-works-to-force-israels-hand-at-the-gaza-border

clearly folks see their side as the right one. good for you. at what price right?

and you could be wrong.

I agree. And yet Israel's position is no less entrenched or reasonable. We just happen to side with them. Other countries less so but they are idiots.

Both sides are effed up. we just don't want to recognize that and rationalize one.

You are the most rational and reasonable person I know LOL There is absolutely no reason to ever look at an issue from another angle when you are always 100% right and stuff and anyone that remotely disagrees is just not smart.


If you read what I am saying in its entirety I am not defending the Palestinians. But the Israel narrative is a false one as well. As long as we accept Israels narrative carte blanche we can not be a serious player in the peace process. And truly maybe there is no path.

I wish Le HD was still around. He's much more articulate than I..... and leans much further that direction than I do. There is another side here and it is legitimate.

Sorry you personalized what I was saying to the point of victimhood. Right/Wrong...good luck.

Just like the Berlin Wall was torn down, so too could this. What has Hamas done to usher in peace or prosperity to its people? Israel has surrendered land and settlements, sometime walking away with what they could carry to try to appease them. The resulting land grab only gets used as a launchpad into Israel. They've tried multiple times under different administrations to bring an end to the hostilities to no avail. The only time Israel launches an attack is in response to being attacked itself. That's a fact. Stick with the facts.

Victimhood? Weird.

I was just trying to get you to consider another viewpoint...one that I don't entirely agree with but can certainly consider... not one of your strengths.

You are more emotional than I in your arguments.

I'm not arguing. Is that how you take it?

If you had a valuable viewpoint I'd accept it. On this matter sitting in the middle watching rocks and bullets fly overhead isn't doing anything. It's silly. If you want to just say nothing, then say nothing.

Tom drew me out of lurking about a decade ago with his unchallenged posts smashing Israel...so blame him for the post ho I have become. The funny thing is I immediately received several PM's of support from c-biddrs who had had it with his bashing but did not care to go public.

I did learn to really like him and respect him, realizing he was far more brilliant than me, and knowing he didn't care either way.

So you aren't wrong, neither was he, but as you understand, not totally correct either. It's nearly impossible for me to be unbiased, so knowing this I try very hard to be open minded, and ask you allow me some leeway in being wrong here and there.

First though, there are many Palestinians living as Israelis, being Jewish is not a requirement for citizenship, employment, education, voting, holding elected office, military service...I can't step one foot into Mecca and other places in the Arab world, though. But it's easy to tell Israel what to do.

And to my knowledge, other than Jordan not one other Arab nation will grant Palestinians citizenship. Not one. Not surprising considering none offered one square inch of sand toward the Nation of Palestine either. Again, easy to tell Israel to fix this...where is the Arab leader's responsibility? The people who created Palestinians in the first place.

This is beyond ironic when discussing Israel's responsibility to these people without a country, no?

That said, I abhor the inhumane conditions those living in occupied areas are enduring. I believe it fosters even more hatred **** radicalism and is not in Israel's best interest. I am much more of a human being with compassion than a blind supporter of one side or another.

Let's not deny that Hamas and their ilk benefit by prolonging Palestinian agony, while Israel wrongfully scoffed at nurturing Global Public Opinion. What looked like arrogance was really a nation saying "never again" and not asking for permission to continue to exist.

The treatment of Palestinians is indefensible. And the solution for it begins by letting them see the truth for the first time in 70 years...do not listen to the PLO/Fatah/Hamas and others, there will not be a retaking of the land, and Israel will not be driven into the sea, and accepting the establishment of a new country named Palestine, albeit with compromises and guarantees of Israeli security, is in their best interest.

70 year late, but still realistic.

Yes it is common knowledge that their rhetoric included this (still includes for some of them). Egypt's and other countries did at one point as well.... the leap to genocide and believing they are middle age barbarians (my word not yours) makes it justifiable whatever israel does. And impossible to do anything but thoroughly dominate them and maybe even get rid of them since their very existence can never be in israels security interests. There are legitimately smart and educated people on the subject that do not shear your view.

Ironically they both feel the way about each other. There are similarities. Their political speak varies but in the end its the same. Its a matter of which side you support and considering the other side is not possible.

There are people on both sides of this. Normal people. Don't let the political game confuse this.

I don't really support a side, I just have an opinion of why there hasn't been a peace deal based on reading about it in the news my entire life.

I just call it as I see it.

As far as the leap to genocide... is it a leap? I mean, you'll see hoards and hoards of them chanting for the death of Jews.

If they could crush Israel and kill everyone in it, it is my opinion that they would... and they wouldn't even lose a lick of sleep because the quran says the murders would be on the hands of Allah and not the believers.

I did not however refer to them as barbarians, I would think of them more as poorly armed crusaders.

just asking folks to consider the other side is akin to supporting the other side. This speaks volumes as to how entrenched folks are. When you are that entrenched what can really be done?