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Last post 5 years ago by frankj1. 44 replies replies.
How does this relate to not being able to deport illegal aliens without a trial?
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Speyside Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 4:10 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This to me says illegal aliens get equal protection of the existing laws. Not that specific laws are to be written for them.
MACS Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 4:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Speyside wrote:
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This to me says illegal aliens get equal protection of the existing laws. Not that specific laws are to be written for them.


As to the second highlighted section: We aren't killing them, or taking their property. Detaining them while we go through due process is a necessity, and is nothing different than what we do to our own citizens. You do realize people are in jail after their arrest, and they stay there until they either bail out, or their case is adjudicated. Sometimes the judge issues an unattainable bail amount, or a "no bail"... in which case they're stuck behind bars until the case is finished.
Speyside Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 5:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
MACS, my point relates to "nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I think I agree with Trump that we can deport illegal aliens without a trial. The above quoted statement seems to me to say that an illegal alien would be afforded the protections a citizen would have. A citizen would not need a trial for deportation due to being an illegal alien. Hence an illegal alien would not be afforded the protection of a deportation trial. My question comes from " deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law."

I am simply interested on some varied debate on this.
MACS Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 5:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
It does not relate. Are you here legally? No... buh bye then. No trial, no nothing... GTFO.

Are you here legally? Yes. Have you committed a crime? If yes, then you get due process... just like everyone else. Hell, even the ILLEGALS here get due process after they commit a crime (other than entering our country illegally, for that they just get deported).
bgz Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 5:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Here's an idea... give them the option to serve. They do their 4 years and get paid, then come out a citizen :D

They would need to learn English of course.
cacman Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
bgz wrote:
Here's an idea... give them the option to serve. They do their 4 years and get paid, then come out a citizen :D

They would need to learn English of course.

Are you going to pay them? Are you going to educate them with a second language?
Cause I sure don't want my tax dollars paying for 3 hots and a cot over 4yrs for someone who entered the Country illegally. Last I looked, learning Spanish wasn't a free course for citizens either.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
bgz wrote:
Here's an idea... give them the option to serve. They do their 4 years and get paid, then come out a citizen :D

They would need to learn English of course.

what about the specific Dreamers that actually have done that, and more?
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:30 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Here's another idea.

Let them apply for a visa or citizenship like everyone else.

Until you see a family go through financial hell and back just to keep their family here, you might not realize that it's a difficult proposition at times.

And if some of you want to let the "dreamers" jump to the head of the line simply because their parents were criminals then you've got a couple screws loose.




At what point in time does America stop screwing the people who simply follow the law?
frankj1 Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I hired a couple of Vietnamese brothers who came legally and eventually became citizens.

I'll bet lunch they can get more correct answers on the test than 98.2% of the blowhards who resent any aliens coming in to America.
These new citizens actually understand how our system works, and who the people are that are charged with making that happen.
tailgater Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 10:57 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I hired a couple of Vietnamese brothers who came legally and eventually became citizens.

I'll bet lunch they can get more correct answers on the test than 98.2% of the blowhards who resent any aliens coming in to America.
These new citizens actually understand how our system works, and who the people are that are charged with making that happen.


You're not wrong.
I just hate seeing people wisked ahead of those who played by the rules.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
what about the specific Dreamers that actually have done that, and more?


If they have served, it's an easy path. One with which the military helps. Even spouses of military can become citizens sooner than they could if they were not. 3 years vs 5, IIRC.
MACS Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
I hired a couple of Vietnamese brothers who came legally and eventually became citizens.

I'll bet lunch they can get more correct answers on the test than 98.2% of the blowhards who resent any aliens coming in to America.
These new citizens actually understand how our system works, and who the people are that are charged with making that happen.


I don't think ANYONE here resents immigrants. Frank, for goodness sake, how difficult is it to understand we don't mind immigrants? It's the ILLEGAL ones we don't want here.

My wife immigrated correctly, and obtained her citizenship the right way; with paperwork, fees, and ultimately, with the approval of the US.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
You're not wrong.
I just hate seeing people wisked ahead of those who played by the rules.

can't disagree.
frankj1 Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
If they have served, it's an easy path. One with which the military helps. Even spouses of military can become citizens sooner than they could if they were not. 3 years vs 5, IIRC.

glad to hear this.

I do scratch my head wondering why so many have not walked the path when they clearly love this country and plan to stay.
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted: Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
I don't think ANYONE here resents immigrants. Frank, for goodness sake, how difficult is it to understand we don't mind immigrants? It's the ILLEGAL ones we don't want here.

My wife immigrated correctly, and obtained her citizenship the right way; with paperwork, fees, and ultimately, with the approval of the US.

I'm good with this.
MACS Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 6:35 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
frankj1 wrote:
glad to hear this.

I do scratch my head wondering why so many have not walked the path when they clearly love this country and plan to stay.


Oooooh. Been to neighborhoods in and around the San Diego border? You're likely to see as many Mexico flags as US flags waving. You're also likely to hear more Spanish than English spoken.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 8:55 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Oooooh. Been to neighborhoods in and around the San Diego border? You're likely to see as many Mexico flags as US flags waving. You're also likely to hear more Spanish than English spoken.

should have clarified...I was talking about those kids who grew up and served etc.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,424
MACS wrote:
It does not relate. Are you here legally? No... buh bye then. No trial, no nothing... GTFO.

Are you here legally? Yes. Have you committed a crime? If yes, then you get due process... just like everyone else. Hell, even the ILLEGALS here get due process after they commit a crime (other than entering our country illegally, for that they just get deported).



We have a WINNAH!


However, with examples of using asylum...it's a bit more difficult. Don't think that they aren't playing that system too. They do have legal standing in our courts.

The GOP and the DNC aren't going to do a damned thing towards any meaningful legislation to stem the flow of illegals in the US. The Left is just good at crying, sobbing and showing examples when they're the minority party...never mind that the policies followed were started by Democrats. Don't follow that...NO...look at the GOP! They're the mean party! Now, that an outsider is there and not reading from their "hymnal" they lose their collective $hit. Party leaders and their followers calling for riots, get in their faces..."NO PEACE, NO REST" crap. Cried about some kid at the border where she was ripped off the tit of her momma and sent to the pedophile prison Peter Fonda described. Oh wait, that was all false? Yet we all heard about it for a solid week? It NEVER happened before then?

PUHLEEZE.
bgz Offline
#19 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 9:11 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
cacman wrote:
Are you going to pay them? Are you going to educate them with a second language?
Cause I sure don't want my tax dollars paying for 3 hots and a cot over 4yrs for someone who entered the Country illegally. Last I looked, learning Spanish wasn't a free course for citizens either.


You're already paying for it.

If they could go fight some terrorists then it's not free, they would be earning their keep.

What better way to prove you truly want to be a citizen of a country than to fight for it?

Anyway, was just throwing it out there... wouldn't expect it to actually happen :P
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
LMAO......Yeah ok.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 10:42 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
MACS wrote:
Oooooh. Been to neighborhoods in and around the San Diego border? You're likely to see as many Mexico flags as US flags waving. You're also likely to hear more Spanish than English spoken.

those places look like America City, USA compared to the towns around me... Parlier, Traver, Del Rey... Traver and Del Rey dont even have police, and the sheriff isnt going out there unless its broad daylight and theres a dead body laying in the street... these towns literally exist for the purpose of illegal immigration... not that theres anything wrong with that...
bgz Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 3:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
ZRX1200 wrote:
LMAO......Yeah ok.


Bad Idea?

Probably so, but it's a good way to turn would be lib voters to could be con voters!

* I could argue a bad idea all day and make it sound reasonable *
bgz Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 4:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Just did a search, found this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/03/trump-will-allow-immigrants-to-obtain-citizenship-through-military-service.html

Apparently Obama thought it was a good idea, and Trump apparently didn't think it was a bad idea...

So in conclusion, if they both agree on it, then it's probably a sh1tty idea.
Speyside Offline
#24 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 4:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So BGZ, do you want to argue why Trump should be elected for a second term, or why Hillary should be elected for 2020?
bgz Offline
#25 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Speyside wrote:
So BGZ, do you want to argue why Trump should be elected for a second term, or why Hillary should be elected for 2020?


I don't care, you pick.
frankj1 Offline
#26 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 6:47 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
sure hope the rumors that Gus Hall may run again are true.
ZRX1200 Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
No bro, my comment was directed at the OP.
Speyside Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 10:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
BGZ, I think it would be very entertaining if you argued for Hillary to be our next president. No one of sound mind wants this no matter what their political affiliation is. So convince us.

I will start off by saying she is only relevant in her own mind.
Abrignac Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Jun 26 2018, 10:36 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
frankj1 wrote:
I hired a couple of Vietnamese brothers who came legally and eventually became citizens.

I'll bet lunch they can get more correct answers on the test than 98.2% of the blowhards who resent any aliens coming in to America.
These new citizens actually understand how our system works, and who the people are that are charged with making that happen.


Stupidity isn't a requirement for citizenship. On the other hand, as far as the fact that they know more about how our system works is similar to the reason that religious converts are more knowledgeable about their chosen religion. We can be born into a religion and not be required to study that religion. But, a convert candidate IS required to study, become knowledgeable and practice that religion faithfully in order to be accepted as a member.
bgz Offline
#30 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Speyside wrote:
BGZ, I think it would be very entertaining if you argued for Hillary to be our next president. No one of sound mind wants this no matter what their political affiliation is. So convince us.

I will start off by saying she is only relevant in her own mind.


Man, that was yesterday... not feeling it today.

*yawn*
cacman Offline
#31 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 9:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Can't afford to go to Disney World this year. Think I'll break in with the family illegally, but I won't tell them. I'll go to jail but the family will get a free vacation.

Sarcasm

frankj1 Offline
#32 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:04 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
might work.

or, the kids could end up somewhere in Texas, but at least your luggage will be documented and found within minutes.

HA!
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We should start separating all children from their parents indefinitely without adequate record keeping for all misdemeanors.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Oh strawman, don't stretch too far!
teedubbya Offline
#35 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 10:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Don’t denegrate cacaman s Disney scenario like that. It was so spot on.
Gene363 Offline
#36 Posted: Wed, Jun 27 2018, 11:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
MACS wrote:
It does not relate. Are you here legally? No... buh bye then. No trial, no nothing... GTFO.

Are you here legally? Yes. Have you committed a crime? If yes, then you get due process... just like everyone else. Hell, even the ILLEGALS here get due process after they commit a crime (other than entering our country illegally, for that they just get deported).



Exactly, pretty simple, no drama required.
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 10:49 AM EST
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
frankj1 wrote:
I hired a couple of Vietnamese brothers who came legally and eventually became citizens.

I'll bet lunch they can get more correct answers on the test than 98.2% of the blowhards who resent any aliens coming in to America.
These new citizens actually understand how our system works, and who the people are that are charged with making that happen.


Are you proposing that folks should have to pass a Civics test as a prerequisite to voting? Sounds good to me.

David
victor809 Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
...hell... Why not a mandatory citizen test for all US born people at 18 too? You fail and you're sent to Mexico... If you've got a kid, they're put in a holding cell till they're 18 and can take the test....

I could get amused by that...
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
can we have an alternative test of walking across hot coals barefoot?
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
victor809 wrote:
...hell... Why not a mandatory citizen test for all US born people at 18 too? You fail and you're sent to Mexico... If you've got a kid, they're put in a holding cell till they're 18 and can take the test....

I could get amused by that...



You want to send 90% of Millennials to Mexico? Why do you hate Mexico?

David
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hahah....

Yeah... They'd all be gone. It'd be fun!
victor809 Offline
#42 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 12:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
My rent would go down!
bgz Offline
#43 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya, sounds like a good plan to me. See how Mexico likes it :D
frankj1 Offline
#44 Posted: Thu, Jun 28 2018, 1:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
You want to send 90% of Millennials to Mexico? Why do you hate Mexico?

David

hysterical!
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