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what did russian meddling accomplish?
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opelmanta1900 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 10:19 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
well, according to the testimony of supreme douchebag fbi agent petey stzrok, it was "wildly successful"... how so?

"But the honest truth is that Russian interference in our elections constitutes a grave attack on our democracy. Most disturbingly, it has been wildly successful - sowing discord in our nation and shaking faith in our institutions."


seriously? seriously... thats the best explanation the fbi has for what russia did... they sowed discord... they shook our faith... what do we call the dnc rigging of the primary? Same?

glad petey boy and the fbi confirmed what most of us already knew about the russian "interference"... #nothingburger
Speyside Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 10:31 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think there is proof that they attempted to influence our election. I believe the NSA, CIA, and FBI. I sure haven't seen any proof that they were successful. Actually I think Comey had the most influence on the election. He never mentioned there was an ongoing investigation of Trump, which was appropriate. He did publicly address the Clinton investigation and publicly address reopening it. Though he did say there was nothing there. This was inappropriate and I think damaging. Though nothing near as insidious as the DNC conspiracy to stop Sanders. Even though I am loathe to say it I am glad Trump is our president and not Clinton.
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:14 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I heard Comey was born in Russia.... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:54 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,577
Comey thought she was getting elected.

And we meddle in our ALLIES ELECTIONS. If you believe Russia had a major influence you're purposely showing ignorance.
tailgater Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:59 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
I think there is proof that they attempted to influence our election. I believe the NSA, CIA, and FBI. I sure haven't seen any proof that they were successful. Actually I think Comey had the most influence on the election. He never mentioned there was an ongoing investigation of Trump, which was appropriate. He did publicly address the Clinton investigation and publicly address reopening it. Though he did say there was nothing there. This was inappropriate and I think damaging. Though nothing near as insidious as the DNC conspiracy to stop Sanders. Even though I am loathe to say it I am glad Trump is our president and not Clinton.


I agree.
Except you have to also mention the difference between Trump and Hillary.
The Trump investigation itself was suspect. He was a private citizen at that point.
Hillary's investigation involved actions taken while secretary of state.
Speyside Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 12:04 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Agreed.
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Call it!

1 pm on 7/12/2018.

Spey and Tail shared a moment.
Speyside Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:09 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
TG, we b*tch and cuss, but I do know you are one of the good guys. Heck, I'd have a beer with you anytime. Truthfully I'd probably have wine.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think wildly successful would be if they gained undue influence. Orgasmically successful would be if they got a puppet intent on weakening NATO, the EU and normalizing the invasion of crimea.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... whew... Good thing that isn't going to happen...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
teedubbya wrote:
I think wildly successful would be if they gained undue influence. Orgasmically successful would be if they got a puppet intent on weakening NATO, the EU and normalizing the invasion of crimea.


Paranoia, paranoia
Everybody's coming to get me
Just say you never met me
I'm going underground with the moles digging holes
Buckwheat Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
It certainly accomplished too many pointless threads in a cigar forum. Frying pan
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
teedubbya wrote:
I think wildly successful would be if they gained undue influence. Orgasmically successful would be if they got a puppet intent on weakening NATO, the EU and normalizing the invasion of crimea.


and backing off economic sanctions due to annexation of Crimea...while publicly ignoring the Russian goal of upsetting the balance of world power...
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
We should invade Crimea... Mellow
RMAN4443 Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
We should invade Crimea... Mellow

I heard Crimea was a chithole...Anxious
Phil222 Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 2:23 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I’m just thankful that America doesn’t have a long history of meddling in other countries elections...
dstieger Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Might be tough to quantify, but if you could somehow measure.......


Which entity had more 'influence' in the 2016 election outcome? Russia? Or members of the US Justice Department?
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Phil222 wrote:
I’m just thankful that America doesn’t have a long history of meddling in other countries elections...



And now we should welcome others meddling in ours.... seems like good logic


We have had spies in other countries so we should remove all laws prohibiting such action in ours
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:11 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
Might be tough to quantify, but if you could somehow measure.......


Which entity had more 'influence' in the 2016 election outcome? Russia? Or members of the US Justice Department?



That's a good question. Comey's announcement pretty much doomed hill dog all the while another investigation went on with no announcement
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Hildog doomed Hildog... Mellow
Phil222 Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
teedubbya wrote:
And now we should welcome others meddling in ours.... seems like good logic


We have had spies in other countries so we should remove all laws prohibiting such action in ours


I don't think I ever said that we should weclome it. Just pointing out the fact that our country has done the same and worse, yet no one ever seems to faux outrage over it. I just think it's interesting is all. Please continue on with the Trump is a Russian puppet narrative... seems like good logic
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:42 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I thought you were saying we shouldn't be outraged because we have done it. I'm sorry if that is not what you meant. There seems to be a lot of so and so did it so this guy can do it to going on in here. I missed that you are not one of those people.


You won't ever hear me say one of our enemies can take action against us because we did the same. I'm an admitted hypocrite especially when it comes to my country over others.
Phil222 Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
teedubbya wrote:
I'm an admitted hypocrite especially when it comes to my country over others.


At least you can admit it. I'm still in denial.
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Phil222 wrote:
At least you can admit it. I'm still in denial.



Whell when you get back from Egypt maybe things will normalize
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Wouldn't it suck if another country decided to invade us because they thought we had chemical weapons or if they bombed our nuclear sites because they didn't want us to have nukes.
Phil222 Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
teedubbya wrote:
Whell when you get back from Egypt maybe things will normalize


Who says I'm coming back? Cool
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
...or if a collection of countries decided the land we are on was forcibly taken from a displaced group and should be given back....

DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Would suck for them fur shurr... Mellow
Phil222 Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
dstieger wrote:
Which entity had more 'influence' in the 2016 election outcome? Russia? Or members of the US Justice Department?


I think you could throw the DNC on that list as well. Had they not put their finger on the scale...Trump vs. Bernie? Who knows...impossible to quantify.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Are you that sure we could beat back china, russia or others without killing ourselves if they decided to bomb our nuclear sites because they didn't want us to have them?


My only point is we tell others they can't do what we did and I'm good with that. merica
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:49 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,772
We sure are good at meddling...Putin won again...wait...he's better at meddling...he just eliminates the opposition...


other than Latin America and the Middle East in the 50's-70's, can anyone show me any examples of US interference in a country's elections that resulted in our preferred candidate prevailing? "Meddle" like what the Russians did is defined as secretive, clandestine, intentionally unbeknownst to and concealed from authorities in the attacked nation.

The cons want us to accept the argument that "we meddle in other countries, so it's OK if they do it to us" because they don't want to acknowledge that their candidate may have gotten a boost from a foreign adversary, one that they have condemned as a scourge on the Free World since WWII...


And the man who was helped has a history of personal business relationships with people in the foreign adversary country ...and after taking office, seems to be doing his part in a quid pro quo...


Trump Tower Moscow seemed to be a big but surreptitious conversation item during the campaign...Cohen's legal problems may shed some light on that...

are we also lowering our standards so that we turn a blind eye to the man occupying the highest office in the land enriching himself while in office...
tailgater Offline
#32 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
TG, we b*tch and cuss, but I do know you are one of the good guys. Heck, I'd have a beer with you anytime. Truthfully I'd probably have wine.


You're right.
You would whine.
tailgater Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
...or if a collection of countries decided the land we are on was forcibly taken from a displaced group and should be given back....



That might be Elizabeth Warren's end game.
She'd be queen squaw.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,577
No.....I think it's disengenuous to call Russia some spectacularly evil nation for doing this when many countries do. Including US. I think your characterization is short sided and incorrect.

Israel PM election under Obama would be the first one that comes to mind. Effective? No. Russia spent moneyon defeating Trump too you know.....they want chaos. Obama knew what Russia was doing, did he stop it?
Phil222 Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I don’t think we will know the extent of our more recent meddling until some time in the future. We are just now admitting to things we did over 50 years ago.

-Dov Levin Ph.D...this article qoutes some of his research. There are some examples of more recent stuff in here.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/americas-long-history-of-meddling-in-other-countries-elections
xibbumbero Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:42 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
It seems that it got us a potus who wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in his fat orange face. X Shame on you
SteveS Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
xibbumbero wrote:
It seems that it got us a potus who wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in his fat orange face. X Shame on you


compared to his predecessor who, if he DID know the truth smacking him in his black face, deliberately lied his ass of anyway ...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:53 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
SteveS wrote:
compared to his predecessor who, if he DID know the truth smacking him in his black face, deliberately lied his ass of anyway ...

#whitepower
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Gotta admit tho, the Russians ability to hack voting machines not even connected to the Internets is impressive... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Not as impressive as their ability to hack Latina grandmothers...
Mr. Jones Online
#41 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 6:28 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,409
To the "O.P."...

+1
NOTHINGBURGER X INFINITY...

I CAN'T COUNT HOW MANY ELECTIONS I F**KED WITH
IN C.A. AND S.A. FROM 79-86 FOR THE U.S. GUBMENT....

TOO MANY TO COUNT...

THEN THERES THE DOZENS UPON DOZENS (IF NOT HUNDREDS) OF D.N.C. HEAVEY STUFFED WITH $$$$
SUIT CASES IN BEATER CAR TRUNKS, PICKED UP IN THE CLEVELAND FLATS... WITH STOPS IN PITTSBURGH THEN DELIVERED TO PHILLY...

THAT DOUGH ^^^^SURE SWAYED SOME U.S. ELECTIONS...

P.L.U.R.A.L. FO' SHO'!!!

THE USA HAS MESSED WITH SO MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ELECTIONS THAT IT IS A JOKE TO EVEN WORRY ABOUT RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE....

Tres Norte and Snub Whitey says....

Just fugggggetabouddd-ditttt
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 6:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
The reality that Hillary just sucked isn't even plausible.. people wanted hope and change and the peoples knew Hillary couldn't deliver... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You realize that can be true as well as the Russian meddling for trump right?its not mutually exclusive and not everyone concerned about Russia’s actions are concerned because they like or wanted hillary. Why don’t you want to know what really happened?


At least Z is honest. He doesn’t think Russia or Putin are our enemy and doesn’t cate if they did do it because we deserve it.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Care not cate
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
nope.

Hope and change was Obama.

Strain the Swamp (and save the big pieces) is Trump. Welcome back Goldman Sachs. Cross thread reference: E. Warren is your only hope in the banking/stock/finance predator protection arena, like it or not.

Anyhoo...

Meddling is a good word, more accurate than the right wing distorted take that Russia has been investigated for "fixing" the election. Not hacking voting machines, how many are even on line?

Widening the gap between Americans and their most trusted agencies (and each other),...smart goal but required INFLUENCE.

Influence! That was the goal. Not stuffing the ballot box.

Gazillions of dollars distributed. I must have said something like this a dozen times in the last 2 years. Who got the money? Manafort et al. Who sold access to Trump? Need I list the names?

Anyone see any signs of it working?

If not, total denial.

I hope President Putin doesn't read this.....HA!

OK, I got dramatic. But I am about as uninfluenced by social media (flip fone) as possible and almost never recognize the names posted here of big name influencers.

All the little ads in the world can't make that happen without yuuuge help, like improved PR in the USA for Russia?
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
It's an old argument.. I was just kiddin... Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
It's an old argument.. I was just kiddin... Laugh

it's not you. It''s me.
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
No.. it was me... Sad
frankj1 Offline
#49 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 8:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
OK, it was both of us.
We good?
Burner02 Offline
#50 Posted: Thu, Jul 12 2018, 8:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,876
xibbumbero wrote:
It seems that it got us a potus who wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in his fat orange face. X Shame on you


Obama had an orange face?

You racist.
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