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DrafterX Offline
#51 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I think maybe the alias thing might be plausible... Parents may have used one and the kids are just telling them their real names... Maybe for a few anyways.... Or the kids have just been abandoned for their greater good... I dunno... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 7:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Lack of documentation just doesn't make any sense... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 7:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Maybe we should start putting chips in them... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#54 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
They are kids and parents from another country that we split up and sent different places sometimes hundreds or thousands of miles apart. I know of one case where the parents were in the Southwest and the kid shipped to NY. That family was lucky a lawyer got involved, the wheel became squeaky and ultimately they were reunited.

If you want to beleive the majority of the folks just don’t want their kids or think it’s better not to look for them is more likely than lack of documentation or terrible implementation of a not so well thought out policy good on you. I can’t beleive you and tail honestly beleive the majority of the parents simply aren’t looking or don’t care. That’s bizarre to me.

Then again you’ve been squarely blaming the parents for everything all along. I guess it makes sense you would reject Occam’s razor here.

The government is inept and effed up.
ZRX1200 Offline
#55 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Nacho.
ZRX1200 Offline
#56 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:06 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Nacho ID
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
We just don't know TW... My opinion is just speculation at best...
And I respect your opinion as well...
Mellow
tailgater Offline
#58 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
Tail the government can’t find the parents is not equal to the parents not trying to find their kids.


We know where the kids are.
The parents are MIA.

Don't know why.

Some claim it's the botched government record. And I agree that poor record keeping is a sad truth.

But if it were just that, then there would be parents looking for kids.

There isn't.

Not sure how this is confusing.
tailgater Offline
#59 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 8:54 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
They are kids and parents from another country that we split up and sent different places sometimes hundreds or thousands of miles apart. I know of one case where the parents were in the Southwest and the kid shipped to NY. That family was lucky a lawyer got involved, the wheel became squeaky and ultimately they were reunited.

If you want to beleive the majority of the folks just don’t want their kids or think it’s better not to look for them is more likely than lack of documentation or terrible implementation of a not so well thought out policy good on you. I can’t beleive you and tail honestly beleive the majority of the parents simply aren’t looking or don’t care. That’s bizarre to me.

Then again you’ve been squarely blaming the parents for everything all along. I guess it makes sense you would reject Occam’s razor here.

The government is inept and effed up.


TW, it's not "the majority".

Most of the parents and kids HAVE been reunited.
The most recent headline I saw said they can't find parents of 38 kids.

You're projecting here. You want to disagree and think I'm saying something different from what you're arguing.

Again.
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 9:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
38 kids..?? Damn.. sounds like a national crisis to me... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 9:38 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Um .... it’s not 38 kids so yea we must be talking about something different.
DrafterX Offline
#62 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Well, that's what I heard... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I'd bet there's 3800 American kids separated from their families every day... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#64 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
We know where the kids are.
The parents are MIA.

Don't know why.

Some claim it's the botched government record. And I agree that poor record keeping is a sad truth.

But if it were just that, then there would be parents looking for kids.

There isn't.

Not sure how this is confusing.



I know where the parents are...in jail.
Cuz if they were roaming free in our country, then they would not have been separated for being illegal aliens.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but it's getting tougher to follow.
DrafterX Offline
#65 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
If they're in jail there must be a reason.. multiple tries to cross the border..?? Huh
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
My understanding of the process was these families were given the choice of just going back across the border or getting processed into the system... This is the law.. all Trump did is ask law enforcement to enforce the law... If it's a bad law change it.. but it's pretty clear many of our elected officials want open borders... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#67 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
If they're in jail there must be a reason.. multiple tries to cross the border..?? Huh

so this is exactly why I am still confused about tail's initial claim...that he is not seeing worried parents searching desperately for their kids who were taken from them when they were arrested.

my thoughts mirrored yours, the parents of the kids who have yet to be matched up (with their parents) are still in jail.
So how could these parents be roaming aimlessly around the USA looking for their kids.

I understand that less than half the original total are yet to be reunited, but I stopped following the news and last heard there were over 700, like a week or 10 days ago, not 38 kids.

And what does the ACLU have to do with tracking kids in Government custody?
MACS Offline
#68 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Frank... you know I work in jails, right? You've met me. I'm not a bad man, and I believe you'd agree I'm trustworthy.

Work in a jail for a month. Just a month.

I'd bet my left damn testicle your attitude would change.
frankj1 Offline
#69 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
and hasn't the court ordered deadline to reunite come and gone days ago...or more?
That's on the government. I don't expect Trump to be doing the searching, so spare me that TDS crap.
frankj1 Offline
#70 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Frank... you know I work in jails, right? You've met me. I'm not a bad man, and I believe you'd agree I'm trustworthy.

Work in a jail for a month. Just a month.

I'd bet my left damn testicle your attitude would change.

totally agree up to the testicle part...I just can't understand how parents in jail (whether they should be or not is a different discussion) could be expected to be searching for their kids.

It makes no sense at all.
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I dunno... Are they the ones screaming for civil rights for illegals..?? Why do illegal aliens have rights..?? Think
MACS Offline
#72 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
frankj1 wrote:
totally agree up to the testicle part...I just can't understand how parents in jail (whether they should be or not is a different discussion) could be expected to be searching for their kids.

It makes no sense at all.


You know kids are used by drug mules for just such occasions? You know parents accept money for their kids to be used in just such occasions?

So much information is not being divulged.
frankj1 Offline
#73 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
I dunno... Are they the ones screaming for civil rights for illegals..?? Why do illegal aliens have rights..?? Think

let's simplify this part...parents searching for their kids, or not.

if the parents tail is citing are in jail, then they can not be roaming freely in search of their children...yes or no?

and he is complaining that they are not searching for their children.

I admit I am confused...just looking for a few simple sentences explaining how the jailed parents could be free to do the searching.
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I dunno Frank.. but that's not really the heart of the issue.. Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
You know kids are used by drug mules for just such occasions? You know parents accept money for their kids to be used in just such occasions?

So much information is not being divulged.

all of these hideous situations exist, none of them relate to the simple questions I keep asking about a specific set of illegal immigrants
.
Children separated, parents in jail. Complaint registered here that jailed parents should be but are not searching for their kids and that the non-reunited families should be exerting more effort to find their kids that our government can't match up.

How are jailed parents supposed to search for their kids? I say jailed, tail says wandering aimlessly.
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 10:57 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The vast majority of the kids in question have nothing to do with drugs or mules. The government was inept and carried this out in a ham handed way. That’s no surprise.
MACS Offline
#77 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Frank... would you risk committing a crime with your kids, if you may be separated from them?

At what point do we lay the blame where it is really supposed to be? I don't care if it's a felony, misdemeanor, or infraction. Don't invade our country with your kids, and you won't be separated from them.

Is it not that simple? You're making excuses for criminals.
MACS Offline
#78 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
teedubbya wrote:
The vast majority of the kids in question have nothing to do with drugs or mules. The government was inept and carried this out in a ham handed way. That’s no surprise.


Yessir... ol' conservative teedub, taking yet another stance counterintuitive to conservative values of personal responsibility.

You go gurl.
frankj1 Offline
#79 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
The vast majority of the kids in question have nothing to do with drugs or mules. The government was inept and carried this out in a ham handed way. That’s no surprise.

yet of the 2,000 plus original number, I could believe that 38 kids may not have been with their nuclear families. It happens, I'm not Pollyanna, I know of this stuff.

But I'm still hearing (after being out of the loop for 2 to 3 weeks) that there are over 700 kids still not matched up with jailed parents.

And this well after the court ordered date to clean this chit up.

We are not a Third World country.
frankj1 Offline
#80 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
MACS wrote:
Frank... would you risk committing a crime with your kids, if you may be separated from them?

At what point do we lay the blame where it is really supposed to be? I don't care if it's a felony, misdemeanor, or infraction. Don't invade our country with your kids, and you won't be separated from them.

Is it not that simple? You're making excuses for criminals.

you seem to be arguing something I am not talking about.

I am addressing the post that complained that the parents are not actively searching for their kids...not why they were separated in the first place.
teedubbya Offline
#81 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:09 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
MACS I already said let’s stipulate fault with the parents. While I disaggree with your take on the crime and separations let’s concede it.

Once the government steps in and does its thing it has a responsibility. It separated kids from families and lost track of who went where. They have this responsibility. They are in control, have responsibility and failed. It’s on them. It’s basic and they failed. It’s neglagence. They are now doing dna swabs to figure out whose toddlers belong to who. Try forgetting where you put a prisoner for a few months and finding they should ha e been released a month or two ago.

As for the 38 maybe this old news is what he is referencing. At any rate interpreting the government not knowing or losing track of where they put the parents or where the parents belonging to any specific child as the parents not trying to find the child is just silly.



WASHINGTON — Government lawyers said Friday that they cannot locate the parents of 38 migrant children under the age of 5, as a federal judge indicated he is open to extending the deadline for reuniting nearly 3,000 children separated from their mothers and fathers while crossing the US-Mexico border.
frankj1 Offline
#82 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
MACS I already said let’s stipulate fault with the parents. While I disaggree with your take on the crime and separations let’s concede it.

Once the government steps in and does its thing it has a responsibility. It separated kids from families and lost track of who went where. They have this responsibility. They are in control, have responsibility and failed. It’s on them. It’s basic and they failed. It’s neglagence. They are now doing dna swabs to figure out whose toddlers belong to who. Try forgetting where you put a prisoner for a few months and finding they should ha e been released a month or two ago.

As for the 38 maybe this old news is what he is referencing. At any rate interpreting the government not knowing or losing track of where they put the parents or where the parents belonging to any specific child as the parents not trying to find the child is just silly.



WASHINGTON — Government lawyers said Friday that they cannot locate the parents of 38 migrant children under the age of 5, as a federal judge indicated he is open to extending the deadline for reuniting nearly 3,000 children separated from their mothers and fathers while crossing the US-Mexico border.

maybe we should just talk to each other, if only to stay on topic.
i really didn't think this would be so hard to follow, and I haven't even mentioned Trump.
MACS Offline
#83 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
frankj1 wrote:
you seem to be arguing something I am not talking about.

I am addressing the post that complained that the parents are not actively searching for their kids...not why they were separated in the first place.


Forget your argument. Answer my questions.

My son has never been separated from me. Not even in a 3rd world country where we lived until he was almost 3.

We have an illegal immigration problem. They are using children to accomplish crimes. Period.
victor809 Offline
#84 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
...why would you ask Frank to argue a different argument than he was having?

...hell ... Stop this argument right now and try to defend child molesters or I'll declare victory on franks behalf....
frankj1 Offline
#85 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Shawn, here is my answer to you in another thread:

"Illegal immigrants are illegal.
Legal immigration is the correct law of the land.

I just find it amusing about Trump's in laws entering on their daughter's back...her contribution is she is photogenic.

And he is OK with them."



But in this thread I am addressing a different issue.
frankj1 Offline
#86 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
...why would you ask Frank to argue a different argument than he was having?

...hell ... Stop this argument right now and try to defend child molesters or I'll declare victory on franks behalf....

DUDE!
DrafterX Offline
#87 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Why are we sure the gubment lost track of the kids. ?? I don't believe that at all... Not talking
frankj1 Offline
#88 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:33 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
Why are we sure the gubment lost track of the kids. ?? I don't believe that at all... Not talking

Trump told the ACLU to figure it out.
DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Cause Pelosi said so..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:33 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Regardless of the extent of their crime (misdemeanor in most cases, but irrelevant to MACS) they will be taken by the government, and the government has no responsibility and the criminal has no rights. The family can be held indefinitely, there is no responsibility to track who belongs to who, and any mistakes by the government are no big deal because they are criminals anyway?

So what if the guy is sentanced to 1 month with an open container violation and we ship him accross the country without telling his family. . Let’s not keep track of who he is and keep him as long as we like. Maybe we can even ditch his ID paperwork, and cut out his tongue and hands or just place him in solitary. If we lose track to the point of not knowing who he is and as a result where his family is we can always blame his family because obviously they are not looking for him.

Sounds reasonable.
frankj1 Offline
#91 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
cuz Trump said so.

for #89
teedubbya Offline
#92 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:35 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
Why are we sure the gubment lost track of the kids. ?? I don't believe that at all... Not talking


Because it’s been widely reported even by fox and seemed to be the basis for tail and you arguing the parents are not looking for their kids.
frankj1 Offline
#93 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
Regardless of the extent of their crime (misdemeanor in most cases, but irrelevant to MACS) they will be taken by the government, and the government has no responsibility and the criminal has no rights. The family can be held indefinitely, there is no responsibility to track who belongs to who, and any mistakes by the government are no big deal because they are criminals anyway?

So what if the guy is sentanced to 1 month with an open container violation and we ship him accross the country without telling his family. . Let’s not keep track of who he is and keep him as long as we like. Maybe we can even ditch his ID paperwork, and cut out his tongue and hands or just place him in solitary. If we lose track to the point of not knowing who he is and as a result where his family is we can always blame his family because obviously they are not looking for him.

Sounds reasonable.

so you don't admire the power advantage that leaders like Putin and fatso enjoy?
Wow. You Americans make it difficult to fix things.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Open borders right..?? That's the only thing that will make you guys happy... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#95 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
Open borders right..?? That's the only thing that will make you guys happy... Mellow

so far off topic that I am wondering about your beer intake.
teedubbya Offline
#96 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Frank quit arguing for open borders.
MACS Offline
#97 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
frankj1 wrote:
Shawn, here is my answer to you in another thread:

"Illegal immigrants are illegal.
Legal immigration is the correct law of the land.

I just find it amusing about Trump's in laws entering on their daughter's back...her contribution is she is photogenic.

And he is OK with them."



But in this thread I am addressing a different issue.


My father in law entered the country because I am married to his daughter. So. What's your point? What was her contribution, aside from marrying a sailor?

He was here for about 6 years. He came here legally. He worked and sent money home to the Philippines. After 6 years he missed home so much he returned. I don't blame him.
teedubbya Offline
#98 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:40 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Trump is arguing to do away with the chain migration.
frankj1 Offline
#99 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
Open borders right..?? That's the only thing that will make you guys happy... Mellow

Frankie Tripod in another thread tonight wrote:


"Illegal immigrants are illegal.
Legal immigration is the correct law of the land.

but here we are talking about tracking separated children and stuff.
MACS Offline
#100 Posted: Sat, Aug 4 2018, 11:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
teedubbya wrote:
Regardless of the extent of their crime (misdemeanor in most cases, but irrelevant to MACS) they will be taken by the government, and the government has no responsibility and the criminal has no rights. The family can be held indefinitely, there is no responsibility to track who belongs to who, and any mistakes by the government are no big deal because they are criminals anyway?

So what if the guy is sentanced to 1 month with an open container violation and we ship him accross the country without telling his family. . Let’s not keep track of who he is and keep him as long as we like. Maybe we can even ditch his ID paperwork, and cut out his tongue and hands or just place him in solitary. If we lose track to the point of not knowing who he is and as a result where his family is we can always blame his family because obviously they are not looking for him.

Sounds reasonable.


Straw man. Show me where ANY of that hypothetical BS has happened.
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