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If Trump Used the "N" Word...
tailgater Offline
#201 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:


Was interesting. They talked about Black people in America, the N word, how Blacks impact our culture in a big way through music, sport, language etc and how they know they're perceived by Whites.

/


That's the part that makes me angry.

It's wrong for me to tell them what they're thinking, but they tell me how I perceive them.

It's wrong to say "you people" to them. But they imply "you people" to me and get media approval.

Just.
STFU.

Now.

victor809 Offline
#202 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
You're missing the point by a mile.

We're not talking about exclusion. At least I wasn't.




someone wrote:

Life is filled with moments when you might feel like persona non grata. Why is it worse for a black person who is scorned for his skin color?
HuckFinn Offline
#203 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
That's the part that makes me angry.

It's wrong for me to tell them what they're thinking, but they tell me how I perceive them.

It's wrong to say "you people" to them. But they imply "you people" to me and get media approval.

Just.
STFU.

Now.


Nice try, but you're not making sense. Listen, if blacks and whites didn't see color the way you claim you don't, this wouldn't be a TV show. Or an issue. But that's not reality. Race relations are not tgood. Thats the reality. Not yours i grant you, but thats how it really is.
And both sides are exactly that: sides. Until further notice. Until we hash it out. Maybe by first admitting there's a problem.

How's it wrong for you to tell them what You think they're thinking? You might be able to guess what they're thinking, with a 50/50 chance of being right, but huh?, "tell them what they're thinking"? You drinking again?

These weren't angry-'you-people'-ranters. They were real people, all celebrities of some sort, communicating what is the black experience in America according to their experience.
All with the intention of initiating meaningful dialogue with non-blacks.

You're angry. They weren't. So that's good.

And why shouldn't they have opinions about what white people think of them?
They are awake, ya know. Everybody is free to have opinions. Even David Duke.

But you're angry. Mission accomplished.
tailgater Offline
#204 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


I understand that exclusion is part of the equation.
It's not the whole enchilada.
tailgater Offline
#205 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
Nice try, but you're not making sense. Listen, if blacks and whites didn't see color the way you claim you don't, this wouldn't be a TV show. And that's not reality. Thing is, both sides are exactly that: sides. Until further notice. Until we hash it out.

How's it wrong for you to tell them what You think they're thinking? You might be able to guess what they're thinking, with a 50/50 chance of being right, but huh?, "tell them what they're thinking"? You drinking again?

These weren't angry-'you-people'-ranters. They were real people, all celebrities of some sort, communicating what is the black experience in America according to their experience.
All with the intention of initiating meaningful dialogue with non-blacks.

You're angry. They weren't. So that's good.

And why shouldn't they have opinions about what white people think of them?
They are awake, ya know. Everybody is free to have opinions. Even David Duke.

But you're angry. Mission accomplished.


First of all, my previous STFU was not aimed at you. It was a general statement towards those out there who give blacks carte blanche and criticize any attempt by whitey to express an opinion on race.

I didn't watch the clip. I don't care what celebrities have to say. Ever. Regardless of color.

I find people who consider color important to be shallow.
That's on both ends of the spectrum.
The racists.
And the affirmative action type.

Shallow.

The issue is simply that people don't like different.

In my neighborhood there are 100 homes.
When I first moved in I was "warned" about the Russian family that held an annual bash.
They were apparently loud and obnoxious for several days in a row.
Imagine my horror...

But if that family were black, and the same (bogus) complaint were made, then there would be serious trouble. Cries of racism. People reconsidering who to friend of facebook. Major stuff like that.

Me?
I liked the Russian parties. Some hot chicks in bikini tops with too many beers. Or vodkas.

Plus, none of that rap music and late night basketball like the new neighbors...




victor809 Offline
#206 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
I understand that exclusion is part of the equation.
It's not the whole enchilada.


I never said it was. But it's a theme that's been popping up a lot in "white rights" groups.... the "oh woe is me, there are laws ensuring other races are included everywhere but there are places and things white people get excluded from! our lives are so difficult!"

It's a silly argument, but I've been seeing it more and more.
RMAN4443 Offline
#207 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Imagine how Jaun Epstein felt, being a Puerto Rican Jew and all the baggage that brings with it...Think
frankj1 Offline
#208 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
I never said it was. But it's a theme that's been popping up a lot in "white rights" groups.... the "oh woe is me, there are laws ensuring other races are included everywhere but there are places and things white people get excluded from! our lives are so difficult!"

It's a silly argument, but I've been seeing it more and more.

ate dinner in a place with live jazz last night...my waiter was black, most of the customers were white, the jazz trio was white too.

but I tried.
tailgater Offline
#209 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I never said it was. But it's a theme that's been popping up a lot in "white rights" groups.... the "oh woe is me, there are laws ensuring other races are included everywhere but there are places and things white people get excluded from! our lives are so difficult!"

It's a silly argument, but I've been seeing it more and more.


Is is silly.

So why did you choose that as your theme?


tailgater Offline
#210 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
RMAN4443 wrote:
Imagine how Jaun Epstein felt, being a Puerto Rican Jew and all the baggage that brings with it...Think


Don't worry.
His mom wrote a note.

tailgater Offline
#211 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
ate dinner in a place with live jazz last night...my waiter was black, most of the customers were white, the jazz trio was white too.

but I tried.


I bet you poured your own water.
Huck's white guilt and all.

Make a note of how much you tipped.
You can deduct it when reparations hit.

frankj1 Offline
#212 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
I bet you poured your own water.
Huck's white guilt and all.

Make a note of how much you tipped.
You can deduct it when reparations hit.


I did not. I even refused the offers to top off the water.
thought I spotted some Salvadorans clearing tables though, so I guess if we count the population in the "back of the house"
I was a white male being accepted in a predominantly minority hang out.

Tip was appropriate plus.

I'm really liberal like that, a lot.
RMAN4443 Offline
#213 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
frankj1 wrote:
I did not. I even refused the offers to top off the water.
thought I spotted some Salvadorans clearing tables though, so I guess if we count the population in the "back of the house"
I was a white male being accepted in a predominantly minority hang out.

Tip was appropriate plus.

I'm really liberal like that, a lot.


The color of money is accepted almost everywhere...and a white band with mostly white customers? That doesn't sound like a predominatly minority hangout....Think
You want a minority hangout, try the Blue Moon Café over in Brockton....that's minority to the nth power...at least it was way back when...
victor809 Offline
#214 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Is is silly.

So why did you choose that as your theme?




I just respond to whatever silliness you start with.
delta1 Offline
#215 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
tailgater wrote:
Some white people DO treat black people differently.
But you're saying that all black people therefore feel this way?

Life is filled with moments when you might feel like persona non grata. Why is it worse for a black person who is scorned for his skin color?
I think it's horrible, but why is it worse?





Because the black experience in this country includes centuries of legalized oppression, where whites lived by different standards and blacks were looked upon as property, not persons. Then came begrudging fights for equal rights, ideals of citizenship, that existed in name only, for whites only. Separate but equal legal stratification reinforced the status of blacks as less than equal. Even in the era beyond the passage of the Civil Rights Acts, white-only institutions remain. Some are unspoken, but can be as plain as the photos taken on the WH lawn when "legislative accomplishments" are celebrated, and members of the House and Senate gather with administration officials to recognize work done on behalf of the "people."

The huge difference in all of this is two-fold: a numbers analysis...whites outnumber blacks by about 9 - 1, and by more than that in history, which affords the majority advantages...a situational one: whites enjoy a position and status elevated by the centuries of black mistreatment, which continues in some forms despite equal rights initiatives..

If life is a marathon, and everybody has a chance to compete, to the best of his ability...whites largely compete in different stadia...with smooth running surfaces with banking to help the elite runners, modern training rooms, accomplished and motivational coaches and trainers armed with the latest techniques and technology, training tables that feature a wide spectrum of nutritious food and drink, proper uniforms and gear...


Blacks, for the most part, have to prepare in worn-out, broken down, or re-habbed antiquated facilities...with potholed surfaces and crooked tracks...with mostly un-motivated, barely qualified, even incompetent coaches and an absence of trainers, out-dated training equipment, fast food and sugar water, mismatched uniforms and ill-fitting gear...

So, ask yourself, tail...if you had a choice, would you take the advantaged and privileged path, or would you rather be black?
RMAN4443 Offline
#216 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
delta1 wrote:
Because the black experience in this country includes centuries of legalized oppression, where whites lived by different standards and blacks were looked upon as property, not persons. Then came begrudging fights for equal rights, ideals of citizenship, that existed in name only, for whites only. Separate but equal legal stratification reinforced the status of blacks as less than equal. Even in the era beyond the passage of the Civil Rights Acts, white-only institutions remain. Some are unspoken, but can be as plain as the photos taken on the WH lawn when "legislative accomplishments" are celebrated, and members of the House and Senate gather with administration officials to recognize work done on behalf of the "people."

The huge difference in all of this is two-fold: a numbers analysis...whites outnumber blacks by about 9 - 1, and by more than that in history, which affords the majority advantages...a situational one: whites enjoy a position and status elevated by the centuries of black mistreatment, which continues in some forms despite equal rights initiatives..

If life is a marathon, and everybody has a chance to compete, to the best of his ability...whites largely compete in different stadia...with smooth running surfaces with banking to help the elite runners, modern training rooms, accomplished and motivational coaches and trainers armed with the latest techniques and technology, training tables that feature a wide spectrum of nutritious food and drink, proper uniforms and gear...


Blacks, for the most part, have to prepare in worn-out, broken down, or re-habbed antiquated facilities...with potholed surfaces and crooked tracks...with mostly un-motivated, barely qualified, even incompetent coaches and an absence of trainers, out-dated training equipment, fast food and sugar water, mismatched uniforms and ill-fitting gear...

So, ask yourself, tail...if you had a choice, would you take the advantaged and privileged path, or would you rather be black?


Yeah,but damn those Ethiopians can run like the dickens.....Anxious



I agree there was a time when black "PEOPLE" were treated poorly but things have changed A LOT, since then...I can now drink from the same water fountain as black "PEOPLE", I can sit next to a black "PERSON" at the back of the bus...or the front, I can vote right next to a black "PERSON" ,for President even, and I can sit down and have a beer and a nice smoke with a black "FRIEND"....I have a few black "PEOPLE" as my bosses at work

The world has changed a lot since I was a child, and yet even way back when, my parents taught me people are "PEOPLE"...even if they're orange....No one can change the past and all the history, but I really don't see all this racial turmoil going on in my world....(well, except for the Vietnam vet and the Vietnamese kid my company hired recently...but that's another story)
HuckFinn Offline
#217 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
delta1 wrote:
Because the black experience in this country includes centuries of legalized oppression, where whites lived by different standards and blacks were looked upon as property, not persons. Then came begrudging fights for equal rights, ideals of citizenship, that existed in name only, for whites only. Separate but equal legal stratification reinforced the status of blacks as less than equal. Even in the era beyond the passage of the Civil Rights Acts, white-only institutions remain. Some are unspoken, but can be as plain as the photos taken on the WH lawn when "legislative accomplishments" are celebrated, and members of the House and Senate gather with administration officials to recognize work done on behalf of the "people."

The huge difference in all of this is two-fold: a numbers analysis...whites outnumber blacks by about 9 - 1, and by more than that in history, which affords the majority advantages...a situational one: whites enjoy a position and status elevated by the centuries of black mistreatment, which continues in some forms despite equal rights initiatives..

If life is a marathon, and everybody has a chance to compete, to the best of his ability...whites largely compete in different stadia...with smooth running surfaces with banking to help the elite runners, modern training rooms, accomplished and motivational coaches and trainers armed with the latest techniques and technology, training tables that feature a wide spectrum of nutritious food and drink, proper uniforms and gear...


Blacks, for the most part, have to prepare in worn-out, broken down, or re-habbed antiquated facilities...with potholed surfaces and crooked tracks...with mostly un-motivated, barely qualified, even incompetent coaches and an absence of trainers, out-dated training equipment, fast food and sugar water, mismatched uniforms and ill-fitting gear...

So, ask yourself, tail...if you had a choice, would you take the advantaged and privileged path, or would you rather be black?

A thoughtful post.

And RMANN made some good points also I thought. Black people have achieved something more closely resembling equality in our lifetimes. Thing is, it's not for us to say that they should be satisfied. Especially when they declare they're not. It's their call the way I see it.

TG not so much. Discounting their opinions because they're celebrities is dodging the subject. Besides, these fortunates have less to be bitter about than most black people.
I kind of understand his anger but I don't share it. They're angry because they have been handed the short end of the stick. He's angry because they're angry.
tailgater Offline
#218 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I just respond to whatever silliness you start with.


Keep that sultry stuff for the boudoir
tailgater Offline
#219 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
Because the black experience in this country includes centuries of legalized oppression, where whites lived by different standards and blacks were looked upon as property, not persons. Then came begrudging fights for equal rights, ideals of citizenship, that existed in name only, for whites only. Separate but equal legal stratification reinforced the status of blacks as less than equal. Even in the era beyond the passage of the Civil Rights Acts, white-only institutions remain. Some are unspoken, but can be as plain as the photos taken on the WH lawn when "legislative accomplishments" are celebrated, and members of the House and Senate gather with administration officials to recognize work done on behalf of the "people."

The huge difference in all of this is two-fold: a numbers analysis...whites outnumber blacks by about 9 - 1, and by more than that in history, which affords the majority advantages...a situational one: whites enjoy a position and status elevated by the centuries of black mistreatment, which continues in some forms despite equal rights initiatives..

If life is a marathon, and everybody has a chance to compete, to the best of his ability...whites largely compete in different stadia...with smooth running surfaces with banking to help the elite runners, modern training rooms, accomplished and motivational coaches and trainers armed with the latest techniques and technology, training tables that feature a wide spectrum of nutritious food and drink, proper uniforms and gear...


Blacks, for the most part, have to prepare in worn-out, broken down, or re-habbed antiquated facilities...with potholed surfaces and crooked tracks...with mostly un-motivated, barely qualified, even incompetent coaches and an absence of trainers, out-dated training equipment, fast food and sugar water, mismatched uniforms and ill-fitting gear...

So, ask yourself, tail...if you had a choice, would you take the advantaged and privileged path, or would you rather be black?


This is weak.
The question you fell upon at the end is rhetorical, but if given the choice I'd rather be in an upper or middle class black family than in a lower class white one. You're confusing privilege with wealth. Confusing history with the present. Nobody has centuries of memory. I've had that discussion with my Greek business partner when talking about the Turks. It's foolish. And by foolish, I mean stupid.

Skin color is ONE factor. But it's all people dwell on.
And that is mind numbingly outrageous.

Yes. Some white people are racist. Just like some black kids are thugs.
Don't judge their entire race by the acts of a few.

Just.
Stop.
tailgater Offline
#220 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Delta,
I know you're heart is in the right place. I get it. I really do.

But your line of thinking is causing more harm than good. Today. In the present time.

Some years ago Massachusetts was creating standardized tests for all the schools in the state.
It ended up being a fiasco called MCAS.
Tests that impacted the graduation rate at some schools. So we did what any bleeding heart state would do: we made the test easier. Then easier again.
But during this time, I was listening to a radio talk show and a young woman called in to say that the test was racist. Or at least that the test results favored whites.
Now, one could easily determine that the test could have favored school systems from predominantly white regions.
But this girl was in Falmouth MA (on Cape Cod).
She was born and raised there.
In a mostly white town, with mostly white schools, she thought the test could magically determine her skin color and that's why she did poorly.

And I blame you and your "centuries" of oppression attitude that doesn't allow these young kids/adults to get out of their own way. Because of their skin color. A built in excuse. Even when it's really not.

tailgater Offline
#221 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
A thoughtful post.

And RMANN made some good points also I thought. Black people have achieved something more closely resembling equality in our lifetimes. Thing is, it's not for us to say that they should be satisfied. Especially when they declare they're not. It's their call the way I see it.

TG not so much. Discounting their opinions because they're celebrities is dodging the subject. Besides, these fortunates have less to be bitter about than most black people.
I kind of understand his anger but I don't share it. They're angry because they have been handed the short end of the stick. He's angry because they're angry.


Actually, I'm not angry at their anger.
I'm angry at people like you telling them to be angry.
Me? I'm telling them to get over it.


Look at the individual.
If I'm treated poorly I'm told to deal with it.
If a black person is treated poorly they go on Oprah and you start a go-fund-me in their honor.

I make the assumption that black Americans are mature and strong and can handle adversity just like anyone in their economic category.
You assume they can't.

And you can't accept that this makes YOU the racist.

delta1 Offline
#222 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
OK, here's the gist, and I'll stop... you're using wealth and privilege and associated perks by small minorities of minorities to explain away/excuse intentional demonizing of entire peoples by significant and powerful segments of the status quo, which creates imbalances in opportunity, access and equality for the minority...

sure there's a con philosophy/narrative taking shape that blames poverty on lack of _______, regardless of the race of the poor. This then drives further division as people in power blame the "others" for "our people's" problems...

I agree with you that hate directed at a person's race, or any other characteristic, is stupid...regardless...but some characteristics that are objects of hate can change...one cannot choose one's race nor can one change it...


reminds me of a joke I heard...sure I was drunk last night, and I'm paying for it today, but I'll be good as new: but holy crap, were you ugly as hell last night................full stop.
tailgater Offline
#223 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
OK, here's the gist, and I'll stop... you're using wealth and privilege and associated perks by small minorities of minorities to explain away/excuse intentional demonizing of entire peoples by significant and powerful segments of the status quo, which creates imbalances in opportunity, access and equality for the minority...

.


You and I must live in different countries.

delta1 Offline
#224 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
is that a polite way to say, "our date for a drink and a smoke is hereby rescinded" ?
frankj1 Offline
#225 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
RMAN4443 wrote:
The color of money is accepted almost everywhere...and a white band with mostly white customers? That doesn't sound like a predominatly minority hangout....Think
You want a minority hangout, try the Blue Moon Café over in Brockton....that's minority to the nth power...at least it was way back when...

yeah, I was kidding by counting the low paid staff members as part of the crowd.

Though when younger I might have been seen havin' a rib sammich and stuff at Ma Dixon's in Grove Hall, maybe a beer at the Patio Lounge in Dudley Station...now Dudley Square since the overhead tracks came down, late lunch or dinner at Brothers in Mattapan Square, looking for music at Skippy Whites ("if you don't know the name, just hum it") in the South End..maybe even a few other places in the general area.

Never once was I made to feel unwelcome, I think some even got a kick out of me being there.
DrafterX Offline
#226 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
I heard Hillary sold the Palladium to the Russians... Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#227 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
I heard Donald sold the Election to the Russians... Mellow



FIFY
HuckFinn Offline
#228 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:


Life is filled with moments when you might feel like persona non grata. Why is it worse for a black person who is scorned for his skin color?
I think it's horrible, but why is it worse?



Interesting. Good question.

I'm reading Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment now. He describes a certain character as someone who would never consider making the sacrifices she does for just herself (she becomes a prostitute to help support her family). She's shunned by all proper society and suffers tremendously. But, in good conscience, she can't stop or even commit suicide because her family needs the dough. It's a problem and solution that transcends just her person.

Somewhere in there I think is an answer to your question.

You're right. We all experience moments of personal non grata.
But we don't all experience the extension of that, genus non grata (?)

Everyone is going to exchange knowing looks if someone walks in to the bar backwards with ear-to-ear facial tattoos drooling. Anyone who marches in your that bar that doesn't fit in the narrow parameters set is going to be non grata. Even just a very overweight person. And they man up and decide whether to continue breast feeding at their booth or not.

Insult an ethnicity, religion or race and you've multiplied the insult exponentially.
You've insulted their family. So It goes deeper. For most anyway.
I suspect you'd roll with all and insults to your ethnicity. I'm serious.

But not everyone can. Or should be expected to. Not everyone can 'just get over it'

Trump.
delta1 Offline
#229 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
I know I said I'd stop, but this is to amplify Huck's point....apologies...

I do agree with tail's point that racism is stupid...let's be clear about that. But it's easier for some, the members of the dominant race of our country, to say that than it is for members of minority groups...

If tail were to "roll with" insults and hatred of him only because of his ethnicity/race, and he seems to say he would and doesn't care about people who are stupid to think that way, he still gets the advantage, because he's part of the majority who are in superior positions of power. This superior position is unearned by him and the current generation, but is a product of his forbears. Their oppressive treatment of people because of their skin colors created the institutional racism that produced white advantage and privilege, and lingers to this day.

The rise/resurgence of the white nationalist movement shows how deep those sentiments exist, and their embrace by con media and its antipathy to antifa is telling. The juxtaposition of mostly positive con media coverage of the white nationalists' tiki march in NC (they chose not to play sound that would've revealed "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil" chants) compared to marches by BLM illustrates con thinking about free speech and who is entitled and who isn't. This just emphasizes and promotes the racial division we continue to experience in this country to this day.

I'm still hoping that tail and I can someday meet and enjoy a drink and a smoke, and lively conversation.
RMAN4443 Offline
#230 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Some of the census data regarding .majority minority in the US....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_minority
excerpt from above....
Cities[edit]
Many cities in the United States became majority–minority by 2010.[32] Out of the cities that had a peak population of 500,000 or more before 1990, the cities now classified as majority–minority include Phoenix,[33] Los Angeles, San Diego,[34] San Francisco, San Jose, Washington D.C., Chicago, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston,[35] Detroit, Orlando, Miami, St. Louis,[36] Buffalo,[37] New York City, Las Vegas, Tampa, Cincinnati,[38] Cleveland, Philadelphia,[39] Milwaukee,[40] New Orleans, Charlotte, Memphis, Dallas, El Paso, Houston, and San Antonio.[32][41]

https://bismarcktribune.com/news/national/the-cities-with-the-highest-murder-rates-in-the-us/collection_5a789407-4d43-5403-ad56-7c47880bda8e.html#10


If you look at some of the highlighted cities where whites are the minority, they are the areas with the highest crime rates,drug abuse, murder rate, etc....these are cities where whites are the minority...who is oppressing and holding these majority peoples back? It's not the white minority...if the police(and a lot of the police are black in some of these areas) are harassing some people in known gang areas,maybe they are preventing another murder...maybe they're just being dickwads,I don't know...but it seems to me,there is a strong police presence in some of these areas because it's needed to deter crime and to protect the law biding citizens from becoming victims to gang violence/crime...


while whites are still the majority in the US as a whole,but in many cities states and regions whites are now the minority... I've also read where at the current rates of birth and immigration, by 2045-2050, whites will be the minority race in the US.....

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2018/03/14/the-us-will-become-minority-white-in-2045-census-projects/

I'm not trying to assign blame for these issues, but the fact is the tables have and are turning, so the oppressed minority argument doesn't really carry the weight it did in the past.....I think everyone shares the blame for the way things are today...it's not Whitey's fault, it's not the Blacks fault, it's not the Mexican's or the Puerto Rican's or the Asian's or the (insert your favorite racial/ethnic/religious slur here) fault.....it is OUR FAULT, and if WE don't fix it TOGETHER, who will...we can't be pointing fingers, we need to put the past aside and work on the future

This from someone who has never owned a slave, had an English nanny, or employed a Mexican gardener...

my .02 cents
delta1 Offline
#231 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
valid points, RMAN ... we are a nation in transition, which I think is one of the reason's for Trump, or someone like him...entrenched majorities do not willingly relinquish their authority, globally and historically...so we are not in a place where equality is the well-established norm...look at the memberships in the halls of federal and state government, corporate boardrooms, chambers of commerce...

you're correct that the established majority senses the change, but it is one which they do not embrace...hence "Take Back America" and "Make America Great Again"... the places you've mentioned are widely considered "sh*tholes" by many among the majority population, even here in CBid world...

even you have said there are places where a white man may not be welcome...how do you know that...are they mostly "sh*tholes" that most people wouldn't want to go?

some people cannot acknowledge this and tell people to stop speaking up...that's a hilarious throwback to the "patronage era" when minorities were expected to know their place...

I will pre-emptively say that all of this is broad brush generalities...it would be too time consuming to take a granular look at some specific pockets of minorities in control, then compare them to the much more abundant places/areas/states/regions where whites are firmly in control...

Truth: ours is a much more advanced and diverse society than much of the rest of the world, and I am glad I was born here, despite all the imperfections...I consider myself blessed that I can express these thoughts and observations, and although some here disagree, likely vehemently so, this is one of the few places on earth where this kind of dialogue can occur...
gummy jones Offline
#232 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
I give this thread two thumbs down
tailgater Offline
#233 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
People read way too much into simple insults.

Using the N word insults not only the man, but also his family?

Well so does calling someone an MF'er or an SOB.

We all agree that real racism is bad.
We just don't agree on all that grey area. What I call an insult you call a racist assault. Neither things are good. But meanwhile we've got half the world deflecting non-racial insults all day long. People are mean. They say mean things. This doesn't mean they think their own race is superior based on skin color.
It doesn't.
It really, really doesn't.

HuckFinn Offline
#234 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
People read way too much into simple insults.

Using the N word insults not only the man, but also his family?

Well so does calling someone an MF'er or an SOB.

We all agree that real racism is bad.
We just don't agree on all that grey area. What I call an insult you call a racist assault. Neither things are good. But meanwhile we've got half the world deflecting non-racial insults all day long. People are mean. They say mean things. This doesn't mean they think their own race is superior based on skin color.
It doesn't.
It really, really doesn't.


No. Using the N word insults not only the man, but his race, his larger family.
Can't you connect dots?

Generic insults like SOB or MF are knee-jerk insults. Nothing burgers.
Preludes to fights. Shallow. Not even meant to hurt.

Racist insults, by definition, connote superiority. And they're meant to shame.
Look up racism.

Onm:
racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
DrafterX Offline
#235 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,506
Then why do blacks use the word so freely if it hurts so bad..?? Mellow
HuckFinn Offline
#236 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
Then why do blacks use the word so freely if it hurts so bad..?? Mellow

If you really wanted the answer to that question you'd research it.
RMAN4443 Offline
#237 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
If you really wanted the answer to that question you'd research it.

What is there to research? If the word is unsuitable for use it should be unsuitable for use across the board...

for example some people use the "C" word to refer to women...most women hate to hear that word used in conversation...they don't then turn around and sing songs about or call each other the "C" word, or name music groups using the "C" word...C.W.A....the word is unsuitable for men and women across the board, woman don't get to denounce the "C" word and then use it "because they can"....use of certain words in society is either acceptable or unacceptable, there is no reason to use those words ....there shouldn't be any free passes because of any reason...it's either right, or it's wrong....no exceptions
tailgater Offline
#238 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
No. Using the N word insults not only the man, but his race, his larger family.
Can't you connect dots?

Generic insults like SOB or MF are knee-jerk insults. Nothing burgers.
Preludes to fights. Shallow. Not even meant to hurt.

Racist insults, by definition, connote superiority. And they're meant to shame.
Look up racism.

Onm:
racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


I'm trying to be polite here.
But this post is f*cking stupid.

I disagree with you. So you assume I can't connect the dots?
That, my friend, is YOU thinking you're superior.
That's YOU trying to shame me.

So if I were black then you'd be a racist for making the same insult.
These are your words, not mine. Superiority and shame.
You claim they're not used in non-black insults.
And that brings your IQ down by 20 points.
Assuming there's room.




tailgater Offline
#239 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
I really don't know.


FIFY

tailgater Offline
#240 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
RMAN4443 wrote:
What is there to research? If the word is unsuitable for use it should be unsuitable for use across the board...

for example some people use the "C" word to refer to women...most women hate to hear that word used in conversation...they don't then turn around and sing songs about or call each other the "C" word, or name music groups using the "C" word...C.W.A....the word is unsuitable for men and women across the board, woman don't get to denounce the "C" word and then use it "because they can"....use of certain words in society is either acceptable or unacceptable, there is no reason to use those words ....there shouldn't be any free passes because of any reason...it's either right, or it's wrong....no exceptions


Don't waste your breath.
Huck sees everything in black and white. You can insult anyone and everyone as long as it's not based on race.
Because those people had family.

Huck knows stuff. He researches it.
Although he doesn't share that knowledge.
It's like a secret.
He only shared it with his friends.
Which makes it safe.
According to Ben Franklin.


HuckFinn Offline
#241 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
 Some Black perspective on the the N word.  


Here's the rapper Kendrick Lamar answering the question:

(making an amusing analogy:  you don't go to somebody else's house specifically to take a chit.)


https://www.theroot.com/why-its-ok-for-black-people-but-not-white-people-to-u-1826255011


_______________________________________________________________________________________

Over time, black people have taken ownership of the slur, dropping the hard “r” to form a related word that refers to black community, in an effort to counteract the original word’s spiteful history. But that word does not hold the same meaning when said by anybody who is not black. When non-black individuals vocalize the n-word, a reminder of the malice associated with its roots remains, and elicits a strong sense of unease from many black persons who witness its expression. The n-word with no hard “r” (hereafter referred to as the “soft n-word”) should still be reserved for only black individuals, especially because racial prejudice still exists in 2018. (There is some debate as to whether or not anybody—even black people—should casually vocalize the soft n-word, but that is beyond the scope of this article).

From: Harvard's magazine

https://www.thecrimson.com/column/where-rap-meets-race/article/2018/2/14/whererapmeetsrace-installment1/

____________________________________________________________________________________

Next From:

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/9/16627900/ta-nehisi-coates-n-word

By Ta-Nehisi Coates, a writer at the Atlantic and author of We Were Eight Years in Power

Coates first pointed out that it is normal in our culture for some people or groups to use certain words that others can’t. For example, his wife calls him “honey”; it would not be acceptable, he said, for strange women to do the same. Similarly, his dad was known by his family back home as Billy — but it would be awkward for Coates to try to use that nickname for his father.

“That’s because the relationship between myself and my dad is not the same as the relationship between my dad and his mother and his sisters who he grew up with,” Coates said. “We understand that.”

The same concept applies to different groups and their words. “My wife, with her girl friend, will use the word ‘bitch,’” Coates said. “I do not join in. You know what I’m saying? I don’t do that. I don’t do that. And perhaps more importantly, I don’t have a desire to do it.”


Long post. My 3c. Sorry. Though chances are nobody read it!

Ok. Seems obvious enough to me. 

If you have to ask why it's harmless and even affectionate for an Irishman to call his bud a "mick", or for a Jew his  friend a "cheap Jew", or for some Black rapper to say "****" on stage (and off) to people he loves, well, then, you're probably not getting a lot of life's subtleties.

It's their word the way they see it and not one they want to share.

So what.

HuckFinn Offline
#242 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
I'm trying to be polite here.
But this post is f*cking stupid.

I disagree with you. So you assume I can't connect the dots?
That, my friend, is YOU thinking you're superior.
That's YOU trying to shame me.

So if I were black then you'd be a racist for making the same insult.
These are your words, not mine. Superiority and shame.
You claim they're not used in non-black insults.
And that brings your IQ down by 20 points.
Assuming there's room.





I didn't mean to insult you, ya moron.

But you reduced my argument to fit your almost-an-argument.
I said "family" and you ran with it. I can't even assume you understood it to mean "race".

Why would I want to shame anybody? Ya moron. No, seriously.

I don't think I'm superior to anyone. I think we're all stupid.

Boy, but disagreeing with you is apparently an act of personal treason! ****!



Hey, if you think I'm a snob or something then ignore me. Seriously.

You seem to be able to only dish out insults, not take em.
cacman Offline
#243 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
HuckFinn wrote:

It's their word the way they see it and not one they want to share.

So what.


Now THAT is one of the stupidest comments in this thread. Bit ironically it expresses the stereotypical attitude.

Never knew there was such thing as "ownership" of a single word in the entire English language. But again there's that "attitude" again..

What a joke.
HuckFinn Offline
#244 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
cacman wrote:
Now THAT is one of the stupidest comments in this thread. Bit ironically it expresses the stereotypical attitude.

Never knew there was such thing as "ownership" of a single word in the entire English language. But again there's that "attitude" again..

But you do know that "ownership" of Black people was once a thing in America, right?

If you need to use the N word, use it. I DGAF.

I posted things Black folks are posting regarding all this. Sue me.

I have no "attitude" and no real dog in this fight.

As a white guy, I'm hearing what blacks and whites are saying because I want perspective. For me. I just want to understand.

My mind isn't made up. I see the double standard and i see defective logic on both " sides"
I might think they're overreacting or that whites are clueless but it's just not my call.

It's theirs!
RMAN4443 Offline
#245 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
a little more "BLACK" perspective on the "N" word...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-mills/the-****-top-10_b_43067.html

Richard Pryor on his feelings about the "N" word
https://youtu.be/hzl7G9XhLxc


http://blackintrospection.blogspot.com/2005/01/dwelling-on-superficial-n-word-vs.html?m=0

excerpt from above link: Black Perspective and Introspection
Welcome to Black Perspective and Introspection; One of the best places in the Blogsphere to find insight from a Black perspective not beholden to White America.

Of course, Gallagher’s Black callers (the one’s I heard comment) all chimed in by saying that the “N” word should never be used for any reason under any pretense. It, in their opinion, should be promptly banished from (American) English.
Now, first... Let me say this clearly. My point here in bringing this up is NOT to discuss the Ins and Outs of using or not using the “N” word. With that said, What I believe is a telling revelation about race in America is the broad cross-racial consensus about something as superficial as a word-name-term like the “N” word while there remains a huge gulf along racial lines on things that impact people the most.

At best, someone saying the “N” word is a personal insult. Yes, it’s one with a deep history but it really doesn’t go beyond one person say something demeaning to another person. It is in that respect that I call it superficial. It exists mainly on a personal level.



http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/257506

excerpt from above,by the beloved civil rights proponent Jesse Jackson:

The TVNewser reports that they have received a partial transcript of remarks made at the same time as Jesse Jackson made his other disparaging remarks about Barack Obama's anatomy. They say they have received confirmation from Fox News Channel representatives saying the transcript is authentic.

The portion shown in the original video was where Jackson had said that Barack Obama was "talking down to black people". What wasn't shown was the remark made after that.

The full remark was, "Barack...he's talking down to black people...telling ****s how to behave."
This brings back up a situation in 2006 when Michael Richard's, who played Kramer on the popular Seinfeld television comedy show, called members of his audience at a stand up routine, ****s, and Jesse Jackson was very high profile in insisting that the word not be used publicly or privately due to the offensive nature of the word.
Jackson also asked the public not to buy a DVD box set of the seventh season of the TV show “Seinfeld” that was released last week. Richards played wacky neighbor “Kramer” on the show, although Jerry Seinfeld would be hardest hit by a boycott of the DVD.

“Yeah, but he is a Jew,” Jackson said.

In fact, Jackson called for a boycott of all entertainment media that used the word.

There are many more examples out there, just google black perspectives on "N" word... while some blacks condone the use of the word,many more find it's use very offensive....
So,I've researched quite a bit of the "BLACK PERSPECTIVE" and it seems to refute your arguments.....and it is NOT "THEIR WORD" to use as they see fit....it is "A" word that many people,BLACKS included, find offensive...
Oh, and by the way here is another excerpt from my last like above...

Jackson also called on a boycott of all entertainment media that uses the “n-word.” Among the items on Jackson’s blacklist are:

* The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain, which includes the character **** Jim, a runaway slave

* Blazing Saddles, which featured prominent use of the “n-word”

* Magnum P.I., starring Tom Selleck, a Republican, and featuring John Hillerman, who also appeared in Blazing Saddles

* Redd Fox Uncensored, which included the routine “Colored People”

* Bicentennial **** by Richard Pryor, which includes the routine “Mudbone Goes To Hollywood”

If you need more, I got you covered....Google returned about 157,000,000 search results on Black Perspective on "N" word
tailgater Offline
#246 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
I didn't mean to insult you, ya moron.

But you reduced my argument to fit your almost-an-argument.
I said "family" and you ran with it. I can't even assume you understood it to mean "race".

Why would I want to shame anybody? Ya moron. No, seriously.

I don't think I'm superior to anyone. I think we're all stupid.

Boy, but disagreeing with you is apparently an act of personal treason! ****!



Hey, if you think I'm a snob or something then ignore me. Seriously.

You seem to be able to only dish out insults, not take em.



You like to read. You should try comprehending. Adds a whole new level of enjoyment.

The other day I tried to dunk a basketball (the rim was lowered to 9 ft.).
I failed. But I did try.
I never said you insulted me. Or shamed me.
I said you tried.

I recognized my failure. The ball didn't go in.

Neither did yours.


So, I'm not insulted by you. I just grow tired of people like you who want to tell other people what to say and how to react.




tailgater Offline
#247 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
But you do know that "ownership" of Black people was once a thing in America, right?



Holy sh*t.


The white guilt runs deep with this one.

There is no hope.



cacman Offline
#248 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
tailgater wrote:
Holy sh*t.


The white guilt runs deep with this one.

There is no hope.

Almost as funny as...

HuckFinn wrote:
whites are clueless but it's just not my call.

It's theirs!

Talk about a broad racist generalization! LMFAO!

There is no hope.
RMAN4443 Offline
#249 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HuckFinn wrote:
But you do know that "ownership" of Black people was once a thing in America, right?

If you need to use the N word, use it. I DGAF.

I posted things Black folks are posting regarding all this. Sue me.

I have no "attitude" and no real dog in this fight.

As a white guy, I'm hearing what blacks and whites are saying because I want perspective. For me. I just want to understand.

My mind isn't made up. I see the double standard and i see defective logic on both " sides"
I might think they're overreacting or that whites are clueless but it's just not my call.

It's theirs!

So,according to your logic, Redskin is the Native American's word?,Mick is the Irish's word?,Frog is the French's word?,Kraut is the German's word?,Kike is the Jew's word,WoP and Dago are the Italian's words(WoP is actually an abbreviation of Without Papers)?, Beaner is the Mexican's word?Towel Head is the Muslim's word?,Bead Counter is the Catholic's word?,BOOB is the stupid person's word?,....etc,etc....

using your theory there are a lot of words out there that can only properly be used by said ethnic and religious groupsThink Not talking Shame on you

and "OWNERSHIP" of Black people(or any PEOPLE for that matter) has been illegal in the US since December of 1865 by the 13th Amendment...that was 153 years ago...I can honestly say. I've never owned a slave,my kids have never owned a slave,my parents have never owned a slave,my grandparents never owned a slave, and I'm pretty sure my great grandparents have never owned a slave....beyond that I would need to do some research,but 153 years ago my ancester's were Northerner's so I would have to believe,maybe incorrectly, but I believe they probably had some part in helping with the emancipation process, and not in keeping slavery intact...
HuckFinn Offline
#250 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Black folks were once a commodity. That's a fact. To white folks they were nothing more or less than tools. To white people. To Black folks they were sons, daughters, wives, friends etc., their people, community. 
I'm not experiencing white guilt, I'm respecting their decision. I'm exhibiting human decency.

Today's younger Black generation has  tried to defang the word and take ownership of it. They've changed it to "nnigga" (minus an N). They affectionately call each other that. I don't claim to understand, I'm just stating a fact. Another fact: when White folks say it they don't intend it the same way.

How can we?
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