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Last post 5 years ago by RMAN4443. 56 replies replies.
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hey teedubbya...
frankj1 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-uniforms-series-toronto-050507666.html

a day that will live in infamy.
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I heard he was banned... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
playing in uniforms completely devoid of the racist caricature the team has used as a logo since 1951.

According to who..?? Are the people calling this racist even Indians..?? Huh


tailgater Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
My college mascot was the Chiefs.
It is now the Riverhawks.

It was changed because it was "racist".
A native American chief with full head dress was our logo.
It's now a cartoon fictional bird.

I watched the protests.
Even Elizabeth Warren wasn't there.
It was other people being offended FOR the Indians that created the controversy.

"We shouldn't use depictions of sacred warriors in sports"
that was the battle cry.
By people who obviously have never been to a casino in Connecticut.


If Cleveland wants to change the mascot, fine. It was kinda hokey anyhow.
But I'm sick of hearing about how the "history" somehow taints today's meaning.

The cartoon indian began as a racist joke? Fine.
Today it meant "Cleveland's MLB team". Nothing more. Nothing less.

If we have to default to the original intent then we should be able to use swastika logo's because the nazi's didn't invent them, they merely adopted them.

It's a slippery slope.

But in the mean time, kudos to Cleveland.
Maybe they can get a real logo now.
Like a flying elvis...
Hank_The_Tank Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-15-2016
Posts: 3,677
Poor teedubbya
opelmanta1900 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
They should use a starfish and call themselves the Cleveland Anus's...
bgz Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Definitely has racist roots, but over time, those who remember the actually racist roots are few and far between.

There are many logos that could be considered offensive.

Celtics, little fat bellied Irish guy puffing a pipe and only has one eye open, clearly closed because he was in a drunken fight.

Vikings... Glorifying a murderous civilization of the past... think Raiders, Pirates, etc...

Redskins obviously.

With that, I'm not offended by any of them, though I can see why some people are. I also understand the unwillingness to break from a brand that took decades to build as it could end up in lost revenue and a long term strategy has to be put in place to move away from it... ultimately it's about money at this point.

Also I understand people's inherent nature to discriminate. People have an instinctive nature to group up into packs based on similarities and a genetically ingrained "us vs them" mentality. This truth becomes painfully obvious to anyone who is of mixed races.

In college, I got a job in a diversity department. Even though we associated with each other, it was kinda funny watching how people broke up into their little sub-packs (I didn't really fit in with any of them, so I didn't hang out with them much outside of school). Foreign Hispanics tended to congregated together, American Hispanics did the same. Even though the Blacks were in the same office, there were only a couple who would hang out with the general population. The Natives tended to stick together, same with the Indians from India, Arabs, etc...

Was funny, because there were a bunch of Hispanic chicks trying to hook me up with this Native lady (who was way older than me by the way) and I simply wasn't attracted to her. They were hell bent on it. Then after a while, they are all like... you're just superficial. Then one of the loudest of the bunch brings her boyfriend in one day, he was a short, buff Mexican dude... it's like ok, what ever (she wasn't even that good looking, had a decent azz, but that's about it). Moral of that story is, people break up into packs and discriminate... it's what we do. It's probably the reason we're the only human like hominid that still exists... We killed the rest.

So I would say as a civilization, we've come a long way... but too many people believe that people are all nice and cuddly by default and discrimination is a learned behavior... that's simply not true, we all do it by default.. I think the sooner that people accept that our nature is to discriminate and accept that it takes work and effort to change that in the individual, the faster we can advance as a society. Logos are simply a reflection of who we are as a species... the most dominant, vile predator known to ever exist on this planet.
DrafterX Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
That's why I hang with puppy-dogs... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
everyone has an anus... no one can get upset about the anus logo...
bikrtrsh Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-29-2009
Posts: 134
bgz wrote:
... but too many people believe that people are all nice and cuddly by default and discrimination is a learned behavior...


It seems to me that those who yell discrimination the loudest have learned to discriminate at an entirely higher level than those labeled as a racist, homophobe and etc.

fog
bgz Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
The other side is always louder, if it wasn't true, then nobody would have to turn their volume up.
DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Mine goes to 11... Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
uranus does?
SteveS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Stanford University went through a similar transition back in the early 70s ... after deciding to scrap the "Indians" name, the administration let the students vote on what it should be changed to ... students voted to become the "Trees" (think large fir tree contained in the Stanford "S" ) ... the admins didn't want to be the "Trees", so they over-ruled the students and became the "Cardinal" ... not the bird, but the name of the color ...

I thought it was an over-reaction then and still do ... but, these days, over-reaction is big business ... it's seen everywhere and in all aspects of life ... and if all the various cats and birds could express themselves, there'd be a lot of teams whose nicknames would be the name of a color ... and those in charge at Stanford might even have a softening of hearts toward being called the "Trees" ...
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tw and I have had a running joke for a few years now about Chief Wahoo...
he even sent me a MLB Official Yarmulkah with the logo on it, friggin' hysterical.

So, I do not feel it is meant as disrespect to name your team(s) after Vikings, or Pirates, or even Chiefs/Indians in that the namers were thinking of the connotation of bravery and fierceness, people who would fight to the end with honor...the positive stuff.

Just two comments to put under the "but":

But-Races aren't pets, some members of those groups feel being mascots dehumanizes them in a way that allows others to never take them seriously as full humans. I've not felt that way, but so far there has not been a Pro team called The New York Jews.

But-That Wahoo guy could not be further removed from a Chief to be admired...he looks like a drunken grinning red idiot. Lovable, yes. Dehumanized and not a serious human, also yes.
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't imagine it's be the New York Jews...

I sorta suspect it'd be the cour d'laine Idaho media controlling Jews... A local feeder team....
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
TW never sent me a MLB Official Yarmulkah with the logo on it... Sad
JadeRose Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
The high school in Pekin Illinois used to be called "The Chinks". They changed it but you can still buy "Chinks" gear.




ROR
Whistlebritches Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
bgz wrote:
Definitely has racist roots, but over time, those who remember the actually racist roots are few and far between.

There are many logos that could be considered offensive.

Celtics, little fat bellied Irish guy puffing a pipe and only has one eye open, clearly closed because he was in a drunken fight.

Redskins obviously.


I'm Irish/Cherokee........I don't have a problem with either and I think people that do have way too much **** ing time on their hands with nothing better to do than b1tch.
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
I don't imagine it's be the New York Jews...

I sorta suspect it'd be the cour d'laine Idaho media controlling Jews... A local feeder team....

guess I'd settle for that as long as the logo was some hot Israeli chick.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
TW never sent me a MLB Official Yarmulkah with the logo on it... Sad

Major League Baseball
Pro-Kippah
by The Emblem Source
Addison TX

(kippah is Hebrew for yarmulke)

even has hidden hair clips (patent pending)
tailgater Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
tw and I have had a running joke for a few years now about Chief Wahoo...
he even sent me a MLB Official Yarmulkah with the logo on it, friggin' hysterical.

So, I do not feel it is meant as disrespect to name your team(s) after Vikings, or Pirates, or even Chiefs/Indians in that the namers were thinking of the connotation of bravery and fierceness, people who would fight to the end with honor...the positive stuff.

Just two comments to put under the "but":

But-Races aren't pets, some members of those groups feel being mascots dehumanizes them in a way that allows others to never take them seriously as full humans. I've not felt that way, but so far there has not been a Pro team called The New York Jews.

But-That Wahoo guy could not be further removed from a Chief to be admired...he looks like a drunken grinning red idiot. Lovable, yes. Dehumanized and not a serious human, also yes.


So help us out here, Frank.

With your two "buts", wouldn't your gift from TW be racist paraphernalia?

DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
That Bassard..!! Mad
MACS Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
Ya know... I just don't f***ing care. I could feign outrage, but I just don't care.

It's stupid... and it's gettin' stupider by the moment... and nothing I do or say is gonna stop the stupidity, so f***it.

NFG. (no f***s given)
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Why do you hate Frank..?? Huh
frankj1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
So help us out here, Frank.

With your two "buts", wouldn't your gift from TW be racist paraphernalia?


absolutely!
It was great.
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
Why do you hate Frank..?? Huh

I happen to know that he loves me...you know, like a brother.
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Laugh
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I heard TW was banned.
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Me too.. poor TW... Sad
MACS Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
frankj1 wrote:
I happen to know that he loves me...you know, like a brother.


True... true...

I was speaking of the direction our country is going... how everyone is outraged or offended by every little thing.
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
You take that back..!! Mad
Mattie B Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Look what they did to Ole Miss

No more Colonel Reb

No more confederate flags allowed at games

The band isn’t allowed to play “Dixie”



Squeaky wheel always gets the grease. A lesson that is engrained deeper in today’s culture.
JadeRose Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
Mattie B wrote:
Look what they did to Ole Miss

No more Colonel Reb

No more confederate flags allowed at games

The band isn’t allowed to play “Dixie”



Squeaky wheel always gets the grease. A lesson that is engrained deeper in today’s culture.




It is true that the squeaky wheel gets the grease but if it keeps on squeaking, it gets replaced.
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
You take that back..!! Mad

excellent
tonygraz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,247
I heard that Drafter has a cigar store Indian.
Mattie B Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
One can only hope Jade
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Drafter has lots of Indian stuff... No cigar store Indian tho... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Kramer bought one on a Seinfeld episode.
I know a shpo that has one just over the Fore River Bridge in Weymouth, MA.

Wonder if they'd sell it.
If they will, I'll get it for ya William. Just don't let grmcooper touch it.
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Very nice offer Frank..!! ThumpUp

Saw one in an antique store once.. they wanted like $350 for it and it wasn't in very good shape... didn't want it that bad..

They're not cheap plus shipping alone would prolly cost a hundred bucks...

Better think about it.. Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
good point.
I better drive it over.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
we'd have a wicked pissah time though.
MACS Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,773
I wanna pahty whichooz guys.
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
we will, MACS, I just know it.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Hmmmm... You guys should put together some kinda herf... Maybe near the ocean... Maybe do a little fishing, rent a house or something... Morro bay is supposed to have some decent places...
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
We can party at my house.. it's like half way between youse guys... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
There's fishes here too... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
and puppy dogs?
DrafterX Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Yes, plenty of puppy-dogs.. not as many as we used to have tho... Sad
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