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tailgater Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Obviously a hot topic, especially during hurricane season.

But it has entered dangerous waters.

We've got politicians making policies while they refuse to even debate the issue.

We're way past "consensus". Now it's "settled".
Because they said so.

If you raise an objection they say you don't believe in science.

It's beyond scary.

People cry about our President calling the media the enemy of the people. They say it squelches debate.
Yet these same people don't want honest debate unless it matches their own belief.

Isn't that what Trump is talking about?

The so-called "media" is nothing more than a vehicle for one side.

He's wrong for saying it. But he's 100% accurate.

The enemy of open discourse is absolutely the enemy of the people.
delta1 Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
yah...there are some people who believe the earth is flat...gotta let them in the debate...

and the vaccines cause autism folks, let'em in too...

the people who claim the Holocaust is a hoax...they deserve a place at the debate...

the Birthers, who believe Obama, the Kenyan King, was born in Africa...

the earth is only 6,000 years old, they should have a place at the scientific debate table...

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren't real...let 'em in to make their case...
RMAN4443 Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
delta1 wrote:
yah...there are some people who believe the earth is flat...gotta let them in the debate...

and the vaccines cause autism folks, let'em in too...

the people who claim the Holocaust is a hoax...they deserve a place at the debate...

the Birthers, who believe Obama, the Kenyan King, was born in Africa...

the earth is only 6,000 years old, they should have a place at the scientific debate table...

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren't real...let 'em in to make their case...


You really think so....Think
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
What about the Keebler elves..?? They're real right..?? Huh
delta1 Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
RMAN4443 wrote:
You really think so....Think

yup, Trump can take two chairs at the debate...



DrafterX wrote:
What about the Keebler elves..?? They're real right..?? Huh


Think
Not talking
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
Obviously a hot topic, especially during hurricane season.

But it has entered dangerous waters.

We've got politicians making policies while they refuse to even debate the issue.

We're way past "consensus". Now it's "settled".
Because they said so.

If you raise an objection they say you don't believe in science.

It's beyond scary.

People cry about our President calling the media the enemy of the people. They say it squelches debate.
Yet these same people don't want honest debate unless it matches their own belief.

Isn't that what Trump is talking about?

The so-called "media" is nothing more than a vehicle for one side.

He's wrong for saying it. But he's 100% accurate.

The enemy of open discourse is absolutely the enemy of the people.




no.
that is not what "they" are saying.

Trying to turn off the press...
A far greater danger than you realize.
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Our Mother Earth I'd gonna do it's thing... Pretty sure the ice age wasn't caused by fossil fuels... 'Global Warming' didn't fit the weather patterns so now it's called 'Climate Change'... It's man made panic and outrage just to fund the gubment with EPA regulations and fines and stuff... Non gubment funded scientists deny it but we don't listen do we... We need drama... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
Our Mother Earth I'd gonna do it's thing... Pretty sure the ice age wasn't caused by fossil fuels... 'Global Warming' didn't fit the weather patterns so now it's called 'Climate Change'... It's man made panic and outrage just to fund the gubment with EPA regulations and fines and stuff... Non gubment funded scientists deny it but we don't listen do we... We need drama... Mellow

anyone funding the non gubment scientists?
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 4:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Prolly... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
enter drama...
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
and even more money.
DrafterX Offline
#12 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 5:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Why do you hate Mother Earth..Huh
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 5:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
HA!
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Laugh
JadeRose Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Sep 15 2018, 8:41 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
DrafterX wrote:
What about the Keebler elves..?? They're real right..?? Huh




Look at our Attorney General. Of course, they're real.
Ewok126 Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 7:43 AM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
I had an old tire that I have been trying to get rid of for ages. Trash pick up would not get it, the folks you call to pick up stoves and crap would not get it. I have been trying to get this thing out of my garage for over a year. So, last week I set fire to it in the backyard. A few days later here comes Flo. Sorry folks, My bad.... but hey the tire is gone. Applause
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 10:04 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Ewok126 wrote:
I had an old tire that I have been trying to get rid of for ages. Trash pick up would not get it, the folks you call to pick up stoves and crap would not get it. I have been trying to get this thing out of my garage for over a year. So, last week I set fire to it in the backyard. A few days later here comes Flo. Sorry folks, My bad.... but hey the tire is gone. Applause

welcome back.

you got a death count yet?
Ewok126 Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 10:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
frankj1 wrote:
welcome back.

you got a death count yet?



Thank you Sir.

Last I heard I was up to 5 d'oh!

Well, that was according to my mother who is based about 30 minutes from Charlotte NC.
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
yah...there are some people who believe the earth is flat...gotta let them in the debate...

and the vaccines cause autism folks, let'em in too...

the people who claim the Holocaust is a hoax...they deserve a place at the debate...

the Birthers, who believe Obama, the Kenyan King, was born in Africa...

the earth is only 6,000 years old, they should have a place at the scientific debate table...

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren't real...let 'em in to make their case...


Thank you for making my point.
Your condescending ignorance is duly noted.
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 11:09 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
no.
that is not what "they" are saying.

Trying to turn off the press...
A far greater danger than you realize.


In American 2018 there will be no tyranny. So the danger lies mostly in the inability to debate. For alternative point's of view. Of a free exchange of thoughts and ideas and discoveries.
Don't be so doom and gloom.
You'll survive Trump. Breathe deep.
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Delta,
Without looking it up.
Because, you know, you already KNOW the "truth".

Does carbon dioxide levels rise before temperatures, or do they follow the temperature rise?

And since you're so learned in the topic, you must know why this is significant.

And you already "know" the historical evidence.

The only thing you probably don't know, or won't accept, is why Mother Earth circa 2000+ is expected to differ from every other warming period.

In the meantime, keep an eye on human population.
Near exponential growth has been and will continue to be the largest influence on man's impact on climate.

But there's no money in keeping the population down.
Hell, Hillary already called China a bunch of dehumanizing names for trying.

But you're right.
Some people DO think the world is flat.
Proving that we DO need to push for government policy regardless of the effectiveness...

I'm glad this is all settled in your, ah, mind.
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 12:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Tail, what is it you would like to see discussed? There has been much study and debate on human effect on the climate. Obviously many countries have decided it is time to act. Do you disagree with the idea that decreasing pollution is good for the environment? Or do you feel there are not enough facts to justify decreasing pollution? I understand you asked some specific questions. In fact I do not think answers can be found for your questions. I do think there is scientific proof that I have read about why carbon dioxide and other specific pollutants are bad for the environment.
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
where did all the climate credits money go..?? Huh
banderl Offline
#24 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-lake-michigan-warming-20180913-story.html

3 degrees since 1980.
Nothing to see here.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#25 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 1:47 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Speyside wrote:
Tail, what is it you would like to see discussed? There has been much study and debate on human effect on the climate. Obviously many countries have decided it is time to act. Do you disagree with the idea that decreasing pollution is good for the environment? Or do you feel there are not enough facts to justify decreasing pollution? I understand you asked some specific questions. In fact I do not think answers can be found for your questions. I do think there is scientific proof that I have read about why carbon dioxide and other specific pollutants are bad for the environment.

Climate change is the epitome of the stupidity of politics... We can all agree that pollution is bad, decreasing it is good... But that doesn't matter.... What matters is what you call the end result of that pollution... And if you call it Something I don't want it called, we are enemies forever and I Will never help you accomplish any of your goals, even if your goals are the same as mine...
Phil222 Offline
#26 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
DrafterX wrote:
where did all the climate credits money go..?? Huh


Prolly fossil fuel subsidies...Sad

Some cities don't even have clean drinking water. Maybe they should tackle that problem first.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Ethanol sucks... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#28 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
tailgater wrote:
Delta,
Without looking it up.
Because, you know, you already KNOW the "truth".

Does carbon dioxide levels rise before temperatures, or do they follow the temperature rise?

And since you're so learned in the topic, you must know why this is significant.

And you already "know" the historical evidence.

The only thing you probably don't know, or won't accept, is why Mother Earth circa 2000+ is expected to differ from every other warming period.

In the meantime, keep an eye on human population.
Near exponential growth has been and will continue to be the largest influence on man's impact on climate.

But there's no money in keeping the population down.
Hell, Hillary already called China a bunch of dehumanizing names for trying.

But you're right.
Some people DO think the world is flat.
Proving that we DO need to push for government policy regardless of the effectiveness...

I'm glad this is all settled in your, ah, mind.









There is one point that we agree on...and I believe all perspectives regarding global warming and climate change agree...human population has grown exponentially and that this much human activity contributes to the warming trend.

from 500,000 people in 1650 to 7.2 Billion people today, more than 6.5 billion more people in less than 370 years....controlling population growth will be an important decision and anybody who doesn't recognize that is fooling themselves...

I've read enough to know that climate change and global warming deniers, most funded by the industry that has pumped C02 into our atmosphere at historic rates, have had the validity of their research data questioned. Internal documents of major oil companies show that they also believe their industry is causing the warming and climate change they are denying. Their continued denials are legal and risk management ploys.

Your other "point" about governments making decisions and shutting down debate appears to be an attempt to prove Trump's assertion that "the media is the enemy of the people." Is it governments who are making decisions about climate change and shutting down debate... or is it the media?

Isn't Trump trying to shut down debate, specifically by calling out media sources that publish critical pieces? He'd be a tad more credible if he hasn't proven himself to be a pathological liar...

There is danger in one-sided media, but truth should be the primary goal of any media source...hopefully the people who consume media do not blindly accept falsehoods and alternative facts, whatever the source...
frankj1 Offline
#29 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2018, 7:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
In American 2018 there will be no tyranny. So the danger lies mostly in the inability to debate. For alternative point's of view. Of a free exchange of thoughts and ideas and discoveries.
Don't be so doom and gloom.
You'll survive Trump. Breathe deep.

it starts somewhere, doesn't happen overnight.

I posted the corrected concern, and the reason to not relax now or ever with such attacks...being ever vigilant is not limited to Trump's current party. You assume incorrectly that for me it is Trump...did you forget I was not and am not a Hillary supporter?

I'm not looking for debate in newspapers, though often there are opposing points of view in the editorial section, which we must preserve.

Good point by Jacoby today.
delta1 Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
Just to finish my thoughts about this...

I believe that if there is new and convincing evidence in a testable/repeatable study that the current warming trend is not caused by human activity and specifically by consumption of fossil fuels, that would be a huge story that no media source would refuse to publish.

I do not agree that there is a government conspiracy that have shoved this phenomenon down the public's throats...if there is, they would not be able to quash that story....

world governments historically can't agree on much of anything, so the idea that all the world's governments are colluding to accept a "theory" that would cost them trillions of dollars is beyond belief...
dstieger Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I was going to say something, but I forget what it was....is this thread about climate change or lack of civil discourse or relationship between government and media...I'm so confused


As to climate change.....
-I believe there's a warming trend that will likely last more than a few years.

-I don't know if humans caused it, but I am fairly convinced that we're a contributing factor.

-Regardless, I see no reason not to invest in buttressing our coastal cities and/or abandoning some very high risk low-lying areas. If a warming trend is accepted as likely continue for a decade or more, sea levels are going to rise and weather patterns are almost certain to be more 'extreme'

-As to the human cause component...many of the 'corrective' type actions that have been proposed are otherwise good for us and the planet, such as reduced auto emissions and fossil fuel burning emissions, so why not work to reduce? Sure, some proposals are prohibitively expensive and probably shouldn't be considered right now, but like other contentious issues, real discussion/debate isn't really possible, so any consensus/common sense is highly unlikely

I guess this gets back to your OP, TG. The more important question is how do we get more real debate and productive solutions? I have no clue, but pretty sure it isn't whatever Congress (and major media) are doing lately
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
The one thing tail is ever right on and I miss it.

Yep... We got too many people.

I've been saying this for years and honestly I think anyone who has more than one child should bear a bit of shame.

The US needs to implement China's one child system. Hell... If we were smart we would enforce it on the rest of the planet. That would actually be a good use of our military... Rather than deal with silly religious conflicts.

Get the globe down to less than 1B (really should be even lower than that) and we can suddenly worry less about the impact of every little bit of waste. But as long as we have a huge population,and are generating waste (of all types) faster than it breaks down... Well... Then we need to watch our waste products.
dstieger Offline
#33 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 2:42 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Some 40+ years ago, in school, we were warned about unsustainable population growth. But, back then, the only concern I recall was regarding food. Nobody seemed to realize that human ingenuity would prevail and food production/productivity would be able to outpace population growth. Aside from the obvious stuff like landfills, polluted waters and big-time hazwaste, overall and less visible waste didn't seem to be on anyone's radar.

I'm not convinced that any developed economy is going to survive long on a one-child thingy....especially, if occurs/implemented suddenly. As it is, I don't think the younger generations are going to be able to support us. I don't know what the 'best' birth rate is, but it isn't 1. And, if retirement age creep doesn't keep up with lifespan increases, our aged are doubly screwed. No surprise, I guess that our efficient and effective Congress refuses to consider raising Social Security draw age(s)
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 4:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yeah... Drastically reducing birthrates will tank economies and screw up retirement....

But there's a few things we need to consider. Most developed countries have been using population growth as a primary driver for economic numbers growth for a long time now... We need to reconsider whether that's a real representation of economic growth. Seriously... You going to have more faith in an economy just because there are more people producing and selling goods and services...? Not an increase in efficiency?

The second thing is retirement. I mean... The retirement age needs to be reconsidered across the board. Not just from a government perspective. If you can still work... Are physically able or mentally able.... Why are you retiring? To do nothing? Why? My father is almost 80 and still works 6 days a week. I question why anyone would want to rush to retire as early as possible.... You're burning through savings... You have no idea how long you'll live till... And you have no idea what your medical expenses will become. We've got a population that is currently planning on retiring at 65 and will likely live 30years after that. That's too long a window to have any accuracy in your predicted spending. Retirement was what people did when they couldn't contribute any longer... Because their bodies we're worn out.... Or their brains weren't working as well... It wasn't intended to be a vacation for 1/3 of your life.
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Tail, what is it you would like to see discussed? There has been much study and debate on human effect on the climate. Obviously many countries have decided it is time to act. Do you disagree with the idea that decreasing pollution is good for the environment? Or do you feel there are not enough facts to justify decreasing pollution? I understand you asked some specific questions. In fact I do not think answers can be found for your questions. I do think there is scientific proof that I have read about why carbon dioxide and other specific pollutants are bad for the environment.


Decreasing pollution is good.
Hell, it's great. I'm in favor of it 100%.

What did I say to make you think otherwise?
Mr. Jones Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,410
The earth has ALWAYS HAD ICE AGES AND VARIOUS CLIMATE TEMPERATURE CYCLES....

THE EARTH NEVER HAD MANMADE POLLUTION UNTIL MAN CAME ALONG....

THE EARTH HAS HAD VOLCANOS AND COMETS-ASTEROIDS that change the climate.

Only a complete M.O.R.O.N. WOULD BELIEVE man made pollution has had "no effect" on world climate...

That being said....

Is climate change caused 100% by humans?....

Who the f**k knows?

Let the scientists figure it out...

I say its a combination of earth cycles and human pollution
That we could change if the ILLUMINATE would turn environmentalism into a new industry...the problem is...they own all the companies that destroy and pollute the earth...

It will take a revolution to change the present systems and power structure...many will die to CHANGE the status quo...

The ILLUMINATE will move to New Zealand or to UNDERGROUND BUNKERS OR CITIES JUST TO KEEP MAKING MONEY HAND OVER FIST....

THEIR^^^ MOTTO IS "SCREEEW THE MASS's and the environment AS LONG AS I CAN LIVE LIKE A KING, MAKE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND BANG AS MUCH STRANGE GASH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE"

^^^ IF YOU HAVE MASSIVE PRIVATE ARMIES AND ALL THE MONEY...WHY CHANGE THE STATUS QUO?
tailgater Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 7:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
There is one point that we agree on...and I believe all perspectives regarding global warming and climate change agree...human population has grown exponentially and that this much human activity contributes to the warming trend.

from 500,000 people in 1650 to 7.2 Billion people today, more than 6.5 billion more people in less than 370 years....controlling population growth will be an important decision and anybody who doesn't recognize that is fooling themselves...

I've read enough to know that climate change and global warming deniers, most funded by the industry that has pumped C02 into our atmosphere at historic rates, have had the validity of their research data questioned. Internal documents of major oil companies show that they also believe their industry is causing the warming and climate change they are denying. Their continued denials are legal and risk management ploys.

Your other "point" about governments making decisions and shutting down debate appears to be an attempt to prove Trump's assertion that "the media is the enemy of the people." Is it governments who are making decisions about climate change and shutting down debate... or is it the media?

Isn't Trump trying to shut down debate, specifically by calling out media sources that publish critical pieces? He'd be a tad more credible if he hasn't proven himself to be a pathological liar...

There is danger in one-sided media, but truth should be the primary goal of any media source...hopefully the people who consume media do not blindly accept falsehoods and alternative facts, whatever the source...


I apologize for not being more clear and for confusing the issue (regarding Trump/media).
I just see some of the typical hypocrisy.
Trump is a dolt for calling the media the enemy. But when the media perpetuates the lie of a "settled" science, then he's not too far off base.

I don't deny climate change.
I just think people are seeing the whole truth.
Hell, not even half of it.

We can't stop man's influence on the climate until we stunt our growth.
Everything else will merely cause inconvenience.

tailgater Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
it starts somewhere, doesn't happen overnight.

I posted the corrected concern, and the reason to not relax now or ever with such attacks...being ever vigilant is not limited to Trump's current party. You assume incorrectly that for me it is Trump...did you forget I was not and am not a Hillary supporter?

I'm not looking for debate in newspapers, though often there are opposing points of view in the editorial section, which we must preserve.

Good point by Jacoby today.


So we're heading for Armageddon?
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
So we're heading for Armageddon?

Nope, we're gonna prevent it.
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 7:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Pretty sure the Resistance is gonna try to make it happen under Trump's watch so they can point their fingers and stuff... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 7:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Tail, what I am trying to ask is what it is you would like to see further discussed. I think we can all agree that pollution is bad. I also think we can all agree that pollution has an effect on our earth. I think most of us can agree that we do not know exactly what the effects of that pollution are. Finally I think most of us can agree that our government is doing something positive by reducing pollution.

I think you are saying 2 things. We should not have a knee jerk reaction to reducing pollution due to political pressures. Also you don't like our government making seemingly totalitarian decisions. But I don't want to speak for you. Though I am trying to better understand your concern.
HuckFinn Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Sep 17 2018, 8:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
tailgater wrote:
So we're heading for Armageddon?

Shotgun!
bgz Offline
#43 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 10:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Some kind of cataclysmic event will happen eventually. I would say that nature is still a heavy favorite to win over anything we can do to the planet.

On a positive note, no matter what happens short of a death star annihilation, the roaches will still be here to carry on our legacy.
bgz Offline
#44 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 10:25 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
delta1 wrote:
yah...there are some people who believe the earth is flat...gotta let them in the debate...

and the vaccines cause autism folks, let'em in too...

the people who claim the Holocaust is a hoax...they deserve a place at the debate...

the Birthers, who believe Obama, the Kenyan King, was born in Africa...

the earth is only 6,000 years old, they should have a place at the scientific debate table...

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren't real...let 'em in to make their case...


So you're saying stupid people shouldn't have a voice?

Who's going to decide whether their stupid or not... you?

Mandatory IQ tests to determine whether someone has the privilege of free speech?

I thought the left were supposed to be the tolerant ones.

Might as well go a step further and say mandatory sterilization for anyone with less than 130 IQ.

That'll fix our stupid people problem.
victor809 Offline
#45 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 11:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
That'd also fix our population problem.

When can we start?
bgz Offline
#46 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Yesterday
victor809 Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 11:56 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sorry about your snipped vas deferens....

I hear if you sit on a donut it helps.
dstieger Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 11:59 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
bgz wrote:
So you're saying stupid people shouldn't have a voice?

Who's going to decide whether their stupid or not... you?

Mandatory IQ tests to determine whether someone has the privilege of free speech?

I thought the left were supposed to be the tolerant ones.

Might as well go a step further and say mandatory sterilization for anyone with less than 130 IQ.

That'll fix our stupid people problem.

First read through, I thought you were being sarcastic. However, I think you're on the right track.
tailgater wrote:

In the meantime, keep an eye on human population.
Near exponential growth has been and will continue to be the largest influence on man's impact on climate.

But there's no money in keeping the population down.

delta1 wrote:
There is one point that we agree on.....controlling population growth will be an important decision and anybody who doesn't recognize that is fooling themselves...
.

victor809 wrote:


Yep... We got too many people.



Maybe we need Carousel, like in Logan's Run
bgz Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 12:00 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
victor809 wrote:
Sorry about your snipped vas deferens....

I hear if you sit on a donut it helps.


You're so certain... but you're so wrong.

Don't worry, if something like this came to be, the lower bound would probably end up at 115 or so, so you would "probably" be safe.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#50 Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I guess I'm a fool for not being worried about the population size... Technology is advancing at alarming speeds...

Not enough room for everyone? The Sahara, Antarctica, vast swaths of Canada, Mars all remain uninhabited...

Not enough food? We can produce meat in laboratories... Gmo vegetables grow faster everyday...

Too much trash? Grand canyon...

We'll adapt...

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