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Left or Right, Why not just Americans?
Bvolm680 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
This is a theory I love to talk about. I want the abolishment of the party system in American culture. I believe that both sides brain wash their supporters into believing things they might not believe. The perfect example of this is all democrats must believe that abortion is right. I think the party system needs to go and Americans need to vote and believe in issues based of their own research and opinions.

The only thing party systems do is create a divide in people!

However, i believe that the party system has been encrypted into the minds of all Americans and this transition would be nearly impossible
tailgater Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Problem is, nobody really likes their own party any more.
They just hate the other party more.
So it helps define who to vote for.
Herfing
Bvolm680 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
Haha, that is very true. I just think people should be drawing their own conclusions not their parties. However, how can you draw your own conclusions when the mainstream media is shoving fake news and agendas down your throat....
bgz Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I appreciate the sentiment of a third party observer as much as anyone, but your recommendation is simply unamerican.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
I think the new guy wants us to hold hands and sing kumbaya...
Bvolm680 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I think the new guy wants us to hold hands and sing kumbaya...


Exactly! Big Hug
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Does he realize that he's in a country where people identify with sports teams based solely on location, and use phrases like "we won" when they had nothing to do with it?

Maybe he's Canadian....
bgz Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Or French...
Speyside Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Prolly a Honduran who started walking early.
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Bvolm680 wrote:
Haha, that is very true. I just think people should be drawing their own conclusions not their parties. However, how can you draw your own conclusions when the mainstream media is shoving fake news and agendas down your throat....

bet I know which side told you to believe that...


HA!
Bvolm680 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
haha well I am right wing so.....
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Bvolm680 wrote:
This is a theory I love to talk about. I want the abolishment of the party system in American culture. I believe that both sides brain wash their supporters into believing things they might not believe. The perfect example of this is all democrats must believe that abortion is right. I think the party system needs to go and Americans need to vote and believe in issues based of their own research and opinions.

The only thing party systems do is create a divide in people!

However, i believe that the party system has been encrypted into the minds of all Americans and this transition would be nearly impossible

ironically, just today I was thinking about pro choice/pro life, the make-up of each sides' supporters, and how I don't feel it is a true partisan politics issue.

I am of the opinion that it really isn't as politically predetermined as we commonly assume, I see more than a scattering of dissent in each party. My feeling is that other social factors play a larger role and many just aren't vocal.

My non-scientific hearsay is based on stuff like: I know many liberal Catholics in the Boston area and that group is pretty much registered Democrat and pretty well split on abortion rights.
and-
I also know many conservatives, perhaps bordering on Libertarians, who also back a woman's right to choose.

It's so personal and emotional, unlike issues like taxes, national security and stuff, that I feel it is more difficult for the major parties to get all the heads nodding at the same time on it.
jjanecka Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Used to be both sides could get along but now everyone is so polarized deals can't be made. Some of the older congressmen have made comments that they can't even dine together at lunch to talk about legislation without being chastised by their whips and other peers.
Bvolm680 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
Frank, I grew up Cathoic and would say they might be a party of their own at this point Anxious



Jjane, exactly, its like you can't be friends with someone who has different views anymore.
Quickpump Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-22-2018
Posts: 8
MAGA!
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... Where's Cameroon when we need him.....
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Bvolm680 wrote:
Frank, I grew up Cathoic and would say they might be a party of their own at this point Anxious



Jjane, exactly, its like you can't be friends with someone who has different views anymore.

you can be friends with them. can't let arguments determine the other person's character.
it's the politicians who are no longer allowed to respect the other view.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
.... Where's Cameroon when we need him.....

go ahead, take a swing at this softball pitch.
Opie retired young and Shaun is missing.
jjanecka Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Bvolm680 wrote:
Frank, I grew up Cathoic and would say they might be a party of their own at this point


Shhh... right now only the media is paying attention. Nobody needs to know that we've secured a third of congress and the only two non-Catholic SCJs are Jews...
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jjanecka wrote:
Shhh... right now only the media is paying attention. Nobody needs to know that we've secured a third of congress and the only two non-Catholic SCJs are Jews...

you know I can hear you, right?
Bvolm680 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
exposed lol
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
jj is always loud, usually wrong (you may disagree) but he's my friend.
bgz Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Oh, and he'll punch you in the mouth if you take communion and you are not confirmed.
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I always put jelly on my wafer.. Mellow
Bvolm680 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
bgz wrote:
Oh, and he'll punch you in the mouth if you take communion and you are not confirmed.


Lmao, well when your parents let you drink at the age of 12 you can get pretty crazy.
frankj1 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
DrafterX wrote:
I always put jelly on my wafer.. Mellow

wicked smaht
RMAN4443 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
I always put jelly on my weiner.. Mellow

Blink
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
God reads da forums.. Shame on you
Bvolm680 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
Pray
jjanecka Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
bgz wrote:
Oh, and he'll punch you in the mouth if you take communion and you are not confirmed.


They have to at least have received their first communion...

I'm leanient on Confirmation candidates; hard on teachers. Not every kid is raised in a strong Catholic exclusive home so you can't exactly fault them for having non-religious/religiously uneducated parents.

I actually sponsored a kid this year. Pretty much lost my chit when the priest/director came up and acted like it was a travesty that he didn't give them the answers they were looking for 100%. Kept trying to say he wasn't ready. I just fired back, "if he's not ready, none of them are." I mean with literally EVERYTHING that is going on in the Church right now, I can't believe they'd be so manipulative but that's why I generally don't usually get involved with parish activities. They nitpick about the stupidest crap.
teedubbya Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
My cousins wife passed a few weeks ago. Catholic funeral.

The wafers were delicious.
jjanecka Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
frankj1 wrote:
jj is always loud, usually wrong (you may disagree) but he's my friend.


You're a pretty cool cat yourself but you're mistaken if you think I'm wrong about things.
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Mellow
bgz Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
jjanecka wrote:
They have to at least have received their first communion...

I'm leanient on Confirmation candidates; hard on teachers. Not every kid is raised in a strong Catholic exclusive home so you can't exactly fault them for having non-religious/religiously uneducated parents.

I actually sponsored a kid this year. Pretty much lost my chit when the priest/director came up and acted like it was a travesty that he didn't give them the answers they were looking for 100%. Kept trying to say he wasn't ready. I just fired back, "if he's not ready, none of them are." I mean with literally EVERYTHING that is going on in the Church right now, I can't believe they'd be so manipulative but that's why I generally don't usually get involved with parish activities. They nitpick about the stupidest crap.


Oooo, jjan having some doubts. If you're having reservations about the church, you can always switch to Episcopalian.

If you have any further reservations... you can talk to me, I can help you drop that weight keeping you from watching live football on Sundays.
Bvolm680 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
bgz wrote:
Oooo, jjan having some doubts. If you're having reservations about the church, you can always switch to Episcopalian.

If you have any further reservations... you can talk to me, I can help you drop that weight keeping you from watching live football on Sundays.



mass is usually at 8 and 10 on Sundays so he's not missing any football lol but he could go Saturday if he wanted. just saying
bgz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Stop putting holes in my narrative.
jjanecka Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Bvolm680 wrote:
mass is usually at 8 and 10 on Sundays so he's not missing any football lol but he could go Saturday if he wanted. just saying


The Church down the road from me has mass at 6:30 AM. Ample time... Ample time...

Besides, I'm not going more liberal. If anything I would turn to either the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches like the Maronite or Ruthenian Rite or I would go full on Russian Orthodox. Kirill has been impressing me as of late. He truly is a Patriarch with real nuts. I mean, I wish we had clergy like this in the west.

I've selected my favorite highlights for your viewing pleasure. Angel

https://youtu.be/XfSPgO-4uJA

https://youtu.be/ITtp534OcKM

https://youtu.be/ogK9tNeuXjo

https://youtu.be/pJ96xqNGZxM
Mr. Jones Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
I agree wit' F.R.A.N.K.....

QUOTE FRANK: "HEY, there are TOO MANY NEW GUYS"
unquote...
😇😇😇
bs_kwaj Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214

Why can't we all just... get along?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0


Beer

bgz Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
jjanecka wrote:
The Church down the road from me has mass at 6:30 AM. Ample time... Ample time...

Besides, I'm not going more liberal. If anything I would turn to either the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches like the Maronite or Ruthenian Rite or I would go full on Russian Orthodox. Kirill has been impressing me as of late. He truly is a Patriarch with real nuts. I mean, I wish we had clergy like this in the west.

I've selected my favorite highlights for your viewing pleasure. Angel

https://youtu.be/XfSPgO-4uJA

https://youtu.be/ITtp534OcKM

https://youtu.be/ogK9tNeuXjo

https://youtu.be/pJ96xqNGZxM



I can't do it... so boring... ended up looking up an episode of South Park...

Season 10 episode 13 :D

Definitely more entertaining!

Kill the wise one!

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6kpebw
Speyside Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
JJ, what does it mean to sponsor a kid?
bgz Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
bs_kwaj wrote:
Why can't we all just... get along?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0


Beer



lol, watched it... might have to hunt down the movie again, been a while, classic!
jjanecka Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
You gotta teach him the faith so that when he comes due for the confirmation the Bishop can bless him.

They want the kid to answer all this gay philosophical bull. Basically it's one of those "do exactly what we tell you and you'll pass" follow authority type things. Probably the worst part about faith formation is that these teachers don't want the kids to form their own opinions they just want to spoon feed them this faith based crap instead of teaching them real history. Catholics don't have it easy, there's really 2000 years of active history, councils, heresies et cetera.

Half the time the Roman Church was fighting off the Arian contraversy which enveloped all of Europe and almost stamped out the Roman Tradition within the first 500 years of the Church. Byzantium at the time had an emperor who was also very much anti-rome so there was a schism between east and west. Constantinople had an ugly history of installing patriarchs that fell in line with the byzantine emperor's agenda mainly because those positions were filled by imperial edict. That's the main reason that the Schism in 1054 happened. Rome finally had enough of the Byzantine Emperors. It had far less to do with actual doctrine and more to do with who had authority of the Roman Church, the emperor, or the Roman Pope. By that time the Holy Roman Empire took shape and the Pope finally had the muscle to leave the union with Constantinople.

It's chit like that the kids find interesting not generic bible quotes and some half-assed emasculated saints. I mean the first day we taught they gave the kids a big excersise on relativism but how the hell do they expect kids to defend themselves against differing opinions and doctrines if they don't even know what they're defending?
bgz Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
jjanecka wrote:
You gotta teach him the faith so that when he comes due for the confirmation the Bishop can bless him.

They want the kid to answer all this gay philosophical bull. Basically it's one of those "do exactly what we tell you and you'll pass" follow authority type things. Probably the worst part about faith formation is that these teachers don't want the kids to form their own opinions they just want to spoon feed them this faith based crap instead of teaching them real history. Catholics don't have it easy, there's really 2000 years of active history, councils, heresies et cetera.

Half the time the Roman Church was fighting off the Arian contraversy which enveloped all of Europe and almost stamped out the Roman Tradition within the first 500 years of the Church. Byzantium at the time had an emperor who was also very much anti-rome so there was a schism between east and west. Constantinople had an ugly history of installing patriarchs that fell in line with the byzantine emperor's agenda mainly because those positions were filled by imperial edict. That's the main reason that the Schism in 1054 happened. Rome finally had enough of the Byzantine Emperors. It had far less to do with actual doctrine and more to do with who had authority of the Roman Church, the emperor, or the Roman Pope. By that time the Holy Roman Empire took shape and the Pope finally had the muscle to leave the union with Constantinople.

It's chit like that the kids find interesting not generic bible quotes and some half-assed emasculated saints. I mean the first day we taught they gave the kids a big excersise on relativism but how the hell do they expect kids to defend themselves against differing opinions and doctrines if they don't even know what they're defending?


There's a reason why they don't want them learning the history. If they teach them to do as they say, then it stifles free thought, and that's a desired trait among their followers. The dogma is what's important because that's what keeps the plate full.

They don't want you to think freely.
jjanecka Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
No, believe me, the Bishops want educated catholics, they want people of substance they can deliberate with. It's all the teachers on the bottom rungs and education directors that have been doing it for years that don't understand how to teach a group of kids that speak out of turn that just want them to shut up and follow.
bgz Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I would be interested in documentation covering this topic.
Bvolm680 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
bgz wrote:
There's a reason why they don't want them learning the history. If they teach them to do as they say, then it stifles free thought, and that's a desired trait among their followers. The dogma is what's important because that's what keeps the plate full.

They don't want you to think freely.


Now I think you're being a little edgy and unfair. If we are talking about limiting thought we should be talking about the entire American school system. Ever heard of the "just enough education". Half of what we learn even in college is just minute bullsh*t that's not gonna ad any value to our set of skills in the real world. This way we can't overthrow large corporations and the government. (a little extremist / conspiracy here but still)
Bvolm680 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
Interesting watch if you have time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJoCfgAEuE
bgz Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Bvolm680 wrote:
Now I think you're being a little edgy and unfair. If we are talking about limiting thought we should be talking about the entire American school system. Ever heard of the "just enough education". Half of what we learn even in college is just minute bullsh*t that's not gonna ad any value to our set of skills in the real world. This way we can't overthrow large corporations and the government. (a little extremist / conspiracy here but still)


If they made the curriculum harder for STEM degrees, nobody would graduate.

My graduating class had very few people in it... so many dropped out of the program.

When I interviewed a recent university grad, I picked his brain a bit and found out they dumbed down the curriculum quite a bit.

The motive is to get money and pump out grads, just like most industries, investors only care about making themselves money. Money is always the motive.
Bvolm680 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2018
Posts: 34
I think it goes deeper than that. I think that model could be correlated to someone like NASA who pumps out little stupid projects and then pull in billion dollar fed funding to push more meaningless research. I think thats why you've seen the space exploration go private.

In schools you dumb everything down so no-one is smart enough to understand corruption or overthrow corporations. Like I said this is extremis but I believe this all started with Standard Oil with Rockefeller took over the education curriculum to create a curriculum that allowed him to have workers that were just smart enough to work for him and help him grow but not smart enough to compete with him and create their own companies.

Kids that are graduating High School today are actually dumb sometimes. In my college classes I had kids who didn't know how to read/write. This isn;t acceptable. But you see STEM is on the other side. STEM researchers don't offer a threat to any kind of cooperation or government. STEM is too worried about figuring out problems and doing research on those problems. When that research gets big the ideas or information just gets bought out by corporations so they basically did all the work for them.

Again this is a radical way to think, but I think there is sufficient evidence out there in oder to support the claims. But not to many people my age want to ask questions or break the "PC" barrier.
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