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Last post 5 years ago by frankj1. 145 replies replies.
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CALIFORNIA "CAMP FIRES"...yea...right...100% caused by HADJI TERRORISTS
DrafterX Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
No way man.. Not talking
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
That focus is almost always a huge mistake, IMO.
All those (and lightning) will provide a spark. They always will be around and possible. But NONE of them are causing the conditions that lead to massive, unstoppable fires in populated areas. Don't focus on the spark



If conditions are changing, shouldn't the forestry folks be accounting for that?

because to date they haven't.

From what I've read, in fact, they're actually doing LESS than what has been done historically. Through their divisions and through the now defunct lumber industry.

Trump's tweets are inflammatory and therefore uncalled for. But they are 100% accurate.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
It doesn’t cost money to SELL TIMBER RIGHTS. It MAKES $

Also, look up Wild Horse Brigade


Did you say Wild Whores Brigade?

dstieger Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
tailgater wrote:
If conditions are changing, shouldn't the forestry folks be accounting for that?



No question. I think the article I referenced above talks to that pretty well. Never meant to imply that climate was a factor, though I don't discount it completely. IF prolonged periods are drier and warmer than past representative samples, then, I suppose it's safe to conclude that available fuel is more susceptible to faster, hotter fires.

Interesting that the management (mismanagement?) is extremely complicated. Regulations are a big part, but so is economics...and both must be considered in some complicated ways....and with unintended consequences and second/third order effects.

The news about the power company having to fear possibly being on the hook for billions is insane. They might well have some negligence to be held accountable for...but how can they be assessed near 100% blame when the problem is so much bigger than 'where'd the spark come from?'
tailgater Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I hadn't heard about the power company being blamed. That's insane. HOW the fires started is not the issue because fires ALWAYS occur in those regions.
dstieger Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Agreed. The power co. said yesterday (or Tues) that their insurance couldn't cover total losses....and their stock promptly took a huge hit.....they're paying already and nobody even knows what started them
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
It's a much smaller place but the Wichita Mountain Reserve used to race to put out fires that occurred from lightning and stuff... But they soon realized that it needed to happen every now and then to control under brush and stuff... Trees were happier after a good burn... I know it looks like hell for awhile and it's a bummer about the people and homes but we need fire... Mellow
Mr. Jones Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
The new question is...

How is Laurel Canyon?

Did the fire reach there?

The area where all the hippies got in early and super cheap...
All the musicians and film stars from 50s,60s and 70s
Bought bungalows with big tracts of land..
I'm pretty sure warren zevon lived there at one point in his life..
An indie film with the same name was pretty cool...
Pool sex with "Fargo" lady star ( wife of a Cohen brother)...
She played a music industry executive? Or a screen writer?
Decent flick.
dstieger Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Mr. Jones wrote:

Pool sex with "Fargo" lady star ( wife of a Cohen brother)...
.


Frances McDormand? Eww
Mr. Jones Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Frances McDormond
Christian Bale
Kate Beckinsale
Natasha McElhone ( hottie in "RONAN")

2002

LAUREL CANYON

WATCH IT , GOOD FLICK
WILD DUALAGE SEX IN THE POOL..
Mr. Jones Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
1960's-70's Laurel Canyon home owners
( some still live there)
The Byrds
Frank Zappa
Jim Morrison
Buffalo Springfield
Joni Mitchell
Neil Young
Jackson Browne
David Byrne
Cass Elliot
Carol King
Alice Cooper
David Crosby
Mickey Dolenz
Glenn Fry
Jimi Hendrix
Brian Wilson
Justin Timberlake
Many many more
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
If conditions are changing, shouldn't the forestry folks be accounting for that?

because to date they haven't.

From what I've read, in fact, they're actually doing LESS than what has been done historically. Through their divisions and through the now defunct lumber industry.

Trump's tweets are inflammatory and therefore uncalled for. But they are 100% accurate.

my thoughts don't count due to the C-Bid Proximity Rule, but...

more than 90% or more of the forest stuff is Federal.
frankj1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Mr. Jones wrote:
1960's-70's Laurel Canyon home owners
( some still live there)
The Byrds
Frank Zappa
Jim Morrison
Buffalo Springfield
Joni Mitchell
Neil Young
Jackson Browne
David Byrne
Cass Elliot
Carol King
Alice Cooper
David Crosby
Mickey Dolenz
Glenn Fry
Jimi Hendrix
Brian Wilson
Justin Timberlake
Many many more

not to mention John Mayall's Blues From Laurel Canyon
dstieger Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Timberlake??? Was that some kind of test, Jonesy...to see if anyone reads your posts to the end?
tailgater Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
my thoughts don't count due to the C-Bid Proximity Rule, but...

more than 90% or more of the forest stuff is Federal.



“There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor,” Trump tweeted after the Camp fire — the deadliest wildfire in modern state history — leveled much of the Sierra Nevada foothills town of Paradise.

“Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!” Trump declared.


Do these tweets differentiate and point specifically at the state run forestry?

I took these to be all inclusive.
State. Fed. Doesn't matter.
Incompetent.

If you're able to read further into it, please enlighten us.


Also:
"more than 90% or more"?
You numbers guyz like repeating things and being redundant over and over again and again.
ZRX1200 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
I would add that anyone who actually has a goddamn clue would know what administrative law is and the way the left has used it to impact STAKE HOLDERS in disputes which have had a direct impact on this. I’ve posted about administrative law before and not one person said anything.........but I’m crazy.
frankj1 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
“There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor,” Trump tweeted after the Camp fire — the deadliest wildfire in modern state history — leveled much of the Sierra Nevada foothills town of Paradise.

“Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!” Trump declared.


Do these tweets differentiate and point specifically at the state run forestry?

I took these to be all inclusive.
State. Fed. Doesn't matter.
Incompetent.

If you're able to read further into it, please enlighten us.


Also:
"more than 90% or more"?
You numbers guyz like repeating things and being redundant over and over again and again.

you left off his specific calling out of California to get their chit together...not the actual stewards.
I think most took it to mean California was responsible and would lose funding. I think he did not know the facts, or chose to ignore them.
ZRX1200 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Or maybe......he knows where the groups who file the suits originate from.....
delta1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
not sure who's worse...the ones who profit from poor practices that result in disastrous calamities...or the ones who profit from filing endless lawsuits that end up costing all of us...
ZRX1200 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
http://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article218803990.html

Suppose this is Trumps fault too?
frankj1 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
ZRX1200 wrote:
http://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article218803990.html

Suppose this is Trumps fault too?

what was his fault before?
Mr. Jones Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
#64 stieny

First and last then first and last...

Each name...use math equation supplied at Langley
In Oct. 82 , week 3...then get the shortwave numbers of that week...then 5 more steps that don't need to be listed on this public forum...

Justin was a convenient total fit in the matrix...

Gotta love 3D clairvoyant codes...gotta think like an artist and not a stupid FBI-SSG FOOT SOLDIER MORON to get it.
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
you left off his specific calling out of California to get their chit together...not the actual stewards.
I think most took it to mean California was responsible and would lose funding. I think he did not know the facts, or chose to ignore them.


That doesn't make sense.
How would Trump stop federal funding if it were the state's operation?

When my town clears out a fire break in the woods behind my house, Beacon Hill doesn't threaten to eliminate the funding for it.

I don't like Trump's timing. It's part of what makes the left hate him.
But it seems that he threw everyone in charge under the bus with his outbursts.
And I'll it again: He's not wrong.

dstieger Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Over 600 missing??? Almost incomprehensible
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
That doesn't make sense.
How would Trump stop federal funding if it were the state's operation?

When my town clears out a fire break in the woods behind my house, Beacon Hill doesn't threaten to eliminate the funding for it.

I don't like Trump's timing. It's part of what makes the left hate him.
But it seems that he threw everyone in charge under the bus with his outbursts.
And I'll it again: He's not wrong.


correct, it didn't make sense.

again.
delta1 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
tailgater wrote:
If conditions are changing, shouldn't the forestry folks be accounting for that?

because to date they haven't.

From what I've read, in fact, they're actually doing LESS than what has been done historically. Through their divisions and through the now defunct lumber industry.

Trump's tweets are inflammatory and therefore uncalled for. But they are 100% accurate.



not so much...

https://www.popsci.com/forest-management-california-fires
dstieger Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I tried reading that, Al, but had to quit. I figured Popular Science might be sorta science-y....

When I got to:
"The second (key reason why California is the perfect tinderbox) is that California has a naturally dry climate, made worse by climate change and Trump's disregard for climate policies."

Sorry. but, wtf. Even if you fully embrace that climate change is largely worsened by human activity...you cannot possibly stand on a claim that Trump's disregard for climate policies is a root cause of the current fires......wow
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya..!! Mad
dstieger Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I don't claim to understand the complex causes....but I can't help but think that the risks could be mitigated substantially for a lot less than the $2B now spent annually on forest fire fighting....just thinking aloud that there could be a net dollar savings if the money was shifted to prevention....never mind the human costs that might be avoided
tailgater Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
I tried reading that, Al, but had to quit. I figured Popular Science might be sorta science-y....

When I got to:
"The second (key reason why California is the perfect tinderbox) is that California has a naturally dry climate, made worse by climate change and Trump's disregard for climate policies."

Sorry. but, wtf. Even if you fully embrace that climate change is largely worsened by human activity...you cannot possibly stand on a claim that Trump's disregard for climate policies is a root cause of the current fires......wow


Yet this is what we're dealing with when we discuss the topic. Any topic.

tailgater Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I said it before.
Even accepting that climate change is a factor, there is/was MAJOR incompetence.

If there is ANYONE involved with forest management that doesn't understand today's climate and how it impacts fire potential, then they shouldn't be working where they are.

The divisions of forestry can't blame the weather as they watch Rome burn. Not after accepting millions to prevent it.


Mr. Jones Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Heyyyy!

I shouldn't went to the "CAMP FIRE"
AND....

D.I.S.A.P.P.E.A.R.E.D.

then , go hide in the "triangle" with my millions in tow....

BWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yo!
"DAISY FERT"...

"YOU CAN'T TOUCH (I.T.:$$$$$$) THIS"...even though you wants it badly...

Did you find it yet?

I didn't think so...you dumb fat EARRINGED moronic f*k...

Blow me
&
F**k off..... g.a.r.y. : FBI-SSG FIELD CHEIF OF LOSERS
&
K.M.L.W.P.J.A.... wHILe yoUr AT iT
Mr. Jones Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
Shouldn't = Shoulda' on the AMC PACER PHONE
delta1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Trump sang a different tune after inspecting the sites of the California wildfires. He backed away from his earlier statements about forest mismanagement, and said instead that you have no idea until you actually see the size and scope of the devastation. He praised the efforts of the first responders and firefighters and pledged full federal emergency funding to California and neighboring states that provided mutual aid. He even interacted well with Gov. Brown during the trip, saying nice things...

That's why Presidents normally avoid criticism of local officials in the face of human catastrophes. It would be like a President telling all the people ruined by hurricanes along the Atlantic Coast and Gulf Coast that it's their own fault for building/living so close to the coastal areas where hurricanes regularly occur. Knowing hurricanes damage the area so frequently, one can argue that it is gross mismanagement for not installing breakwaters and seawalls all along the coast...imagine Obama saying something like that before he showed up in New Jersey after Sandy...

... it's far more complicated in reality...
DrafterX Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
ahh yes... George Bush hates black people... We all know that's true right..?? Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
That’s why he put the dynamite on the levy in New Orleans
frankj1 Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
and why Brownie did such a good job
MACS Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,599
Um... hey Delta1...

California Gov. Jerry Brown appears to have quietly admitted President Donald Trump's suggestion about improving California forestry was correct and is now urging state lawmakers to loosen restrictive logging regulations put in place to appease environmentalists.

The Santa Cruz Sentinel reports that Brown is proposing one of the most significant changes to the state's logging rules in nearly half a century.

"Gov. Jerry Brown is proposing broad new changes to California’s logging rules that would allow landowners to cut larger trees and build temporary roads without obtaining a permit as a way to thin more forests across the state," the paper reports.

Environmentalists in California aren't on board. They've been pushing for years to make California's logging rules more restrictive, not less, but in the wake of the deadly forest fires that ripped through the state this month, prominent lawmakers believe a change must be made before more people die from a preventable situation.

"Under Brown’s proposal, private landowners would be able to cut trees up to 36 inches in diameter — up from the current 26 inches — on property 300 acres or less without getting a timber harvest permit from the state, as long as their purpose was to thin forests to reduce fire risk," the Sentinel reports. "They also would be able to build roads of up to 600 feet long without getting a permit, as long as they repaired and replanted them."

Forests, particularly in northern California, California lawmakers admit, have become dangerously overgrown. But there's currently little incentive for landowners to clear their trees — they are only allowed to clear dead and decaying wood and undergrowth and can't clear healthy tress. By allowing landowners to recover some money from the process — letting them create and sell lumber, for instance — it could incentivize them to make bigger changes.
Abrignac Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
California has wildfires every year. Trump has been in office 2 years, yet all of a sudden it’s his fault?

DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Yes, cause he hasn't stopped global warming yet... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Whatever changes that can be made that would reduce the risk of forrest fires. This should not be politicized. For a change lets act for the people. Also lets remove the special interest groups from the equation. Common sense needs to be used.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
But what about the spotted beavers..?? Nobody ever thinks about the spotted beavers... Sad
ZRX1200 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Brown diverted water that was requested out to sea.

He sued over requests to remove fire hazards.

Now he’s posturing for the pitchforks and torches.
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Whatever changes that can be made that would reduce the risk of forrest fires. This should not be politicized. .


It also should not be hindsight.


Although I disagree somewhat.
We shouldn't focus on reducing the fires. We should focus on containing them.

Even with zero human influence on HOW it starts, fires will be a thing.



tailgater Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
Brown diverted water that was requested out to sea.

He sued over requests to remove fire hazards.

Now he’s posturing for the pitchforks and torches.


He better be careful with those torches.
Abrignac Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Speyside wrote:
Whatever changes that can be made that would reduce the risk of forrest fires. This should not be politicized. For a change lets act for the people. Also lets remove the special interest groups from the equation. Common sense needs to be used.



Totally agree, but when a very vocal group whose agenda is to save everything from the spotted owl to the spotted ass ape uses it’s influence to pretty much block logging it leaves NO financial incentive to clear undergrowth in said forests.

So the wheels on the bus.....
RMAN4443 Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
But what about the spotted beavers..?? Nobody ever thinks about the spotted beavers... Sad

I saw a spotted beaver once....then she used the ointment and anti-biotics and it cleared right up...
but I really don't want to think about it...Not talking
tailgater Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Abrignac wrote:
Totally agree, but when a very vocal group whose agenda is to save everything from the spotted owl to the spotted ass ape uses it’s influence to pretty much block logging it leaves NO financial incentive to clear undergrowth in said forests.
..


But the spotted owl likes to live in dead hollowed out trees.
So you can't remove those trees.

And if they burn up?
We'll blame Climate Change.

frankj1 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Abrignac wrote:
California has wildfires every year. Trump has been in office 2 years, yet all of a sudden it’s his fault?


if anyone has blamed Trump, I've honestly missed it Anth. I have seen and have stated that his instant reaction and threats were out of line and likely ill informed.

I believe I heard he backed off his charges immediately after seeing first hand what California was dealing with this year. and I may have heard him say the funds would flow...anyone?

Abrignac Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
frankj1 wrote:
if anyone has blamed Trump, I've honestly missed it Anth. I have seen and have stated that his instant reaction and threats were out of line and likely ill informed.

I believe I heard he backed off his charges immediately after seeing first hand what California was dealing with this year. and I may have heard him say the funds would flow...anyone?



It’s implied that everything is his fault.

Shame he can’t keep his mouth shut.
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