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'Baby, It's Cold Outside,' Seen As Sexist
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Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 4:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,810
Holiday magic or metro craziness?

Never mind that none of us would be here if it hadn't been, "cold outside".

"This #MeToo-era-****-yuletide-season, radio stations are pulling the plug on that holiday earworm with lyrics that, to some, ring date-rape warning bells, rather than evoking innocent snow-bound flirtation.

The tune "Baby, It's Cold Outside," with words that seemed charming when FDR was in office, may land with a tone-deaf thud on the ear of today's listener.

But the stations banning the song have been met with a controversy of their own."

The tune in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=7MFJ7ie_yGU

"Written by Frank Loesser in 1944, "Baby, It's Cold Outside" featured in the 1949 film Neptune's Daughter, winning the Oscar for best original song.

"The call and response duet has a female voice trying to tear herself away from her date in myriad ways: "I've got to go away ... Hey, what's in this drink?" And finally, "The answer is no." But her declarations of "no" are far from final, with the male voice, wheedling "Mind if I move in closer ... Gosh, your lips are delicious ... How can you do this thing to me?""

A great evaluation of the whole story is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7zdod8hikU
frankj1 Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 4:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I keep telling my wife and our friends that it's this stuff that makes conservatives hate us.
Gene363 Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 4:22 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,810
frankj1 wrote:
I keep telling my wife and our friends that it's this stuff that makes conservatives hate us.


I'm confident some conservatives would be offended by this song if they actually listened to the words.
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
it's really kind of a playful back-and-forth.
this is idiotic.
delta1 Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
(I ought to say no, no, no, sir) Mind if I move in closer
(At least I'm gonna say that I tried) What's the sense of hurting my pride
(I really can't stay) Baby, don't hold out
[Both] Baby, it's cold outside

(I simply must go) But, baby, it's cold outside
(The answer is no) But, baby, it's cold outside
(The welcome has been) How lucky that you dropped in
(So nice and warm) Look out the window at the storm


Key and Peele did a hilarious date-rape take on this song 5-6 years ago, with aggressive grabbing and pulling as those lyrics played...eye opener if you look at it that way...
delta1 Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
frankj1 wrote:
I keep telling my wife and our friends that it's this stuff that makes conservatives hate us.



and I tell my wife and con friends that defending/keeping/conserving/clinging to outdated hateful and hurtful relics from the past makes libs hate cons...

at one time, public hangings were in fashion...
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:36 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I hate hangings
DrafterX Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
In da wild, wild west..?? Huh
delta1 Offline
#9 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Alabama, 1981, a black man was lynched by the KKK...coulda been in the western part of Alabama...
Ewok126 Offline
#10 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 6:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
I just tell my wife to STFU and listen to the damn song. Granted I say it where she cant hear me but I still tell her that! Anxious
MACS Offline
#11 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 7:08 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,770
frankj1 wrote:
I keep telling my wife and our friends that it's this stuff that makes conservatives hate us.

frankj1 wrote:
it's really kind of a playful back-and-forth.
this is idiotic.


100% agree... on both counts.
JadeRose Offline
#12 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 8:31 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
I'm outraged.
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 8:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Here's another song that seems terribly outdated...

Gary Puckett and the Union Gap: Young Girl

Young girl, get out of my mind
My love for you is way out of line
Better run girl
You're much too young girl
With all the charms of a woman
You've kept the secret of your youth
You led me to believe you're old enough
To give me love
And now it hurts to know the truth
Young girl, get out of my mind
My love for you is way out of line
Better run girl
You're much too young girl
Beneath your perfume and your make-up
You're just a baby in disguise
And though you know that it's wrong to be
Alone with me
That come on look is in your eyes
Young girl, get out my mind
My love for you is way out of line
Better run girl
You're much too young girl…
So hurry home to your mama
I'm sure she wonders where you are
Get out of here
Before I have the time
To change my mind
'Cause I'm afraid we'll go too far


this one is cringe-worthy regardless of whether you align with the right or the left...if you hear this song playing and sing along, you might be a Judge Roy redneck...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 8:47 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Theres a song from the 40's whose theme is something to the effect of "you're too beautiful to be a day over 15"... Fur reals...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
As for the song in question... Super rapey, always has been... But I still watch reruns of the Cosby show... Everyone is allowed to enjoy things, even when other people get their feelings hurt as a result...
DrafterX Offline
#16 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
But did she put out in the end..?? Huh
delta1 Offline
#17 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
I think she did, after they stopped shooting for the day and Cosby got her back to his hotel room with a cool drink...
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:08 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
My college age kids have called that song the "date rape song" for a few years now.

No more creepy than singing about some dude who can "see you when you're sleeping".


Try this:
Next time Winter Wonderland comes on, sing "walking 'round in women's underwear" to the chorus.
You'll never hear the right words again.

You're welcome.
Krazeehorse Offline
#19 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:37 PM EST
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
tailgater wrote:
My college age kids have called that song the "date rape song" for a few years now.

No more creepy than singing about some dude who can "see you when you're sleeping".


Try this:
Next time Winter Wonderland comes on, sing "walking 'round in women's underwear" to the chorus.
You'll never hear the right words again.

You're welcome.





I thought the right word were "Walkin' in my winter underwear".

As to the op it seems to me that there are a lot of rap things (I can't call them songs) that refer to their beeches. Offensive? If it is there are several controls on my radio that allow me to immediately resolve the problem.
RMAN4443 Offline
#20 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Alice Cooper sang that little ditty, "Only Woman Bleed"....just sayin'Anxious
Burner02 Offline
#21 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:56 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
delta1 wrote:
Alabama, 1981, a black man was lynched by the KKK...coulda been in the western part of Alabama...


Al, nice deflection from the current day, over the top liberal "BS".

Was this a public lynching or an act carried out under the cover of darkness by a couple of ignorant POS cowards?


Burner02 Offline
#22 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 9:58 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
delta1 wrote:
and I tell my wife and con friends that defending/keeping/conserving/clinging to outdated hateful and hurtful relics from the past makes libs hate cons...

at one time, public hangings were in fashion...



Very telling Al, does seem to be substantially more hate on the left than right.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut3jDxmXa2M

hope this is the Dean Martin version...

this song goes back before TV but was popular on TV when married couples on TV shows slept in separate beds!
There is flirtatious banter...old style...nothing close to menacing pressure.

And the "reveal" is in the last line that they sing together, both agreeing that spending the night is what they both wanted all along.
delta1 Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Burner02 wrote:
Very telling Al, does seem to be substantially more hate on the left than right.


so you're essentially saying that libs shouldn't be allowed to say that maybe some songs or expressions have passed the "sell by date"...that some forms of expression, even ones that appear to celebrate sexual assault, is OK and should not be challenged...yet you didn't see anything wrong when Frank said "cons hate libs"

you're saying that libs are being hateful when we are outraged when cons defend overtly disrespectful, hateful, discriminatory or oppressive ideas, symbols or laws: ie statues and flags that were erected specifically as oppressive symbols; laws that reverse VRA; voter suppression laws;

we libs are being hateful when we question the cons who demand an end to political correctness so that mean, disrespectful, hateful and racist expressions can once again be accepted in everyday communication; when we criticize those who seek to deny some people the freedom to express their sexual orientation and rights due to their sexuality...

all on the con's current agenda...

yes, I admit that I vehemently oppose that hateful crap...but I still can oppose those ideas and beliefs in a civil manner and respect the right of anyone to express their opinions, just as you are free to challenge any and all of my opinions...no offense meant, and I take no offense when you choose to challenge any of my posts...


but I'm not sure about the left out-hating the right ... maybe we're catching up because there seems to be a wave of outrage from the left since you-know-who took office ...libs are finally speaking up for what we perceive as wrong...just as those on the right have been doing all along (remember "Take Back America"?)...seems there is enough hate to go around, though...
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
Ever listen to rap songs..?? Huh
delta1 Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:47 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
frankj1 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut3jDxmXa2M

hope this is the Dean Martin version...

this song goes back before TV but was popular on TV when married couples on TV shows slept in separate beds!
There is flirtatious banter...old style...nothing close to menacing pressure.

And the "reveal" is in the last line that they sing together, both agreeing that spending the night is what they both wanted all along.


I like the song, and think it's fine...but I won't play it if I know someone would be offended by it...

"Young Girl" was a very popular song in the late 60's...I remember singing along...but I've heard from some of my younger female acquaintances who see the song as very creepy...

I don't understand the response that "f*** you for being offended by this...it wasn't meant to offend you...I find it entertaining, so F off"

my brother, a Baptist Youth Pastor, was offended by the "Life of Brian" and "History of the World"...I loved the movies, but would never offer to show them to him...
Burner02 Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:50 PM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
delta1 wrote:
so you're essentially saying that libs shouldn't be allowed to say that maybe some songs or expressions have passed the "sell by date"...that some forms of expression, even ones that appear to celebrate sexual assault, is OK and should not be challenged...yet you didn't see anything wrong when Frank said "cons hate libs"

you're saying that libs are being hateful when we are outraged when cons defend overtly disrespectful, hateful, discriminatory or oppressive ideas, symbols or laws: ie statues and flags that were erected specifically as oppressive symbols; laws that reverse VRA; voter suppression laws;

we libs are being hateful when we question the cons who demand an end to political correctness so that mean, disrespectful, hateful and racist expressions can once again be accepted in everyday communication; when we criticize those who seek to deny some people the freedom to express their sexual orientation and rights due to their sexuality...

all on the con's current agenda...

yes, I admit that I vehemently oppose that hateful crap...but I still can oppose those ideas and beliefs in a civil manner and respect the right of anyone to express their opinions, just as you are free to challenge any and all of my opinions...no offense meant, and I take no offense when you choose to challenge any of my posts...


but I'm not sure about the left out-hating the right ... maybe we're catching up because there seems to be a wave of outrage from the left since you-know-who took office ...libs are finally speaking up for what we perceive as wrong...just as those on the right have been doing all along (remember "Take Back America"?)...seems there is enough hate to go around, though...


Check your post Al, you are the one that used the words hate cons. Not me but you.

One other thing, if you believe half of the "BS" you have been spewing of late you are going to end up on the no fly list.


RMAN4443 Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683

Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure
They're the balls that I like best
My balls are always bouncing
To the left and to the right
It's my belief that my big balls
Should be held every night

Not talking
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
DrafterX wrote:
Ever listen to rap songs..?? Huh


Yup...Ice T sure caused a commotion in the early 80's when he rapped about cop killing...we had a debate on campus about whether their "music" should not be played in the Student Center...

now it seems that many"mainstream" people are just as apt as ghetto blacks, to listen to rap and hip hop and all the extreme language of that genre...

hmmmm...maybe we should just let people listen to what they want to listen to, as long as they don't subject those who are offended...there are on/off buttons and channel change buttons...

if you like "Baby It's Cold Outside" or "Young Girl" go for it...I'm having a hard time maintaining my hard-o...errrr...outrage...
delta1 Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Burner02 wrote:
Check your post Al, you are the one that used the words hate cons. Not me but you.

One other thing, if you believe half of the "BS" you have been spewing of late you are going to end up on the no fly list.




you didn't see that I was riffing on Frank's post, directly above mine, didja?

There are varying degrees of my beliefs, some are solid and some are squishy, but they are mine, and I am entitled to express them, just as I invite you to state what you believe. I invite you to identify my BS, and offer up an opposing viewpoint...it's easy to denigrate, but it's empty unless an honest exchange of thoughts and ideas occur. I promise not to label your ideas BS, but I will offer my viewpoint... we may even agree on stuff at the end and shake hands, so to speak...

I was knocked for a loop by Drafter, who asked about "rap music"...that made me think about censorship in a whole different way...now I'm having to re-think whether it's OK to ban stuff just because a significant number of people are pizzed about it...that's the beauty of jumping in and riffing on this board...

what's this "no fly list"
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
Anyways, here are more Christmas songs that need to be removed.

1. I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus: subjecting minors to softcore porn; infidelity

2. The Christmas Song: Open fire? Pollution. Folks dressed up like Eskimos? Cultural appropriation

3. Holly Jolly Christmas: Kiss her once for me? Unwanted advances. Slavery of women

4. White Christmas? Racist

5. Santa Claus is Coming to Town: Sees you when you'ree sleeping? Knows when you're awake? Peeping Tom stalker; pedophilia

6. Most Wonderful Time of the Year: Everyone telling you be of good cheer? making light of mental illness; forced to hide depression

7. Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: Bullying

8. It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas: gender-specific gifts: dolls for Janice and Jen and boots and pistols for Barney and Ben - (a twofer: guns and bigotry)

9. Santa Baby: objectifies women, blackmail

10. Frosty the Snowman: Sexist; why not a snow woman?

11. Do You Hear What I Hear: blatant disregard for the hearing impaired

12. Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas: Make the yuletide GAY? Wow, just wow

13. Jingle Bell Rock: Giddy up jingle horse, pick up your feet: animal abuse

14. Mistletoe and Holly: Overeating, folks stealing a kiss or two? How did this song ever see the light of day?

15. Winter Wonderland: Parson Brown demanding they get married . forced marriage

16. Grandma Got Ran Over By A Reindeer: Come on the name says it all! Reckless driving, attempted murder, elder abuse, disrespect.

Film at 11... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
And what about Free Bird..?? Do you have a parakeet or some other confined bird in a cage..?? The screaming seed chunkers are screaming and chunking seeds for a reason... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:25 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
dammm you, Drafter...horse
frankj1 Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:28 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Ban Music...

#BM
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
Laugh
Phil222 Offline
#36 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
This one still okay though, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTx-sdR6Yzk Beer
delta1 Offline
#37 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:32 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
so.....what is the flavor this year: Happy Chanukkah? Happy Holidays? or Merry Christmas? Where's Bill O'Reilly?
RMAN4443 Offline
#38 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:33 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Don't forget Back Door Santa....
They call me the Back Door Santa
I make my runs about the break of day
They call me the Back Door Santa
I make my runs about the break of day
I make all the little girls happy
While the boys are out to play

I ain't like the old Saint Nick
He don't come but once a yearAnxious
I ain't like the old Saint Nick
He don't come but once a year
I come runnin' with my presents
Every time they call me dear

https://youtu.be/xrRC24g1xdw
delta1 Offline
#39 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
Phil222 wrote:
This one still okay though, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTx-sdR6Yzk Beer


Good song, Phil... didn't know there were so many good looking Irish women...
Speyside Offline
#40 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:45 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship.

George Bernard Shaw

Seems to me censorship of freedom of speech, in this case musical lyrics is far worse than the musical lyrics.

Seems to me anyone who thinks musical lyrics should be censored needs to understand why Mendelsohn and Schoenberg were censored and understand that totalitarianism is unacceptable.

Seems to me I should and do value the constitution far more than having my sensibilities offended.
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted: Sat, Dec 8 2018, 11:58 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Pogues was always the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jbdgZidu8
Phil222 Offline
#42 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 12:03 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
One for the road...Beer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cglLJJ0Czo8
MACS Offline
#43 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 3:28 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,770
Know what's funny? I was not familiar with the song before the outrage... and now I've heard it like a dozen times. And I'm gonna download it and play it for anyone that will listen.

Snowflakes... shut your holes for a damn minute and think about things before you open your filthy traps.
Burner02 Offline
#44 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 7:03 AM EST
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
delta1 wrote:
what's this "no fly list"



That would be the suspected terrorist no fly list.


Guess this Franks fault.
dstieger Offline
#45 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 9:44 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I don't have a problem with the initial station pulling it from their playlist....or any subsequent stations. I was only outraged that they felt they needed to publicize their decision for whatever reason..."Look at how progressive and considerate we are!!!"
The song isn't new, nor obscure...they weren't doing a public service of alerting the ignorant, naive public to some dangerous subtleties.
Then again, the cries of censorship and banning aren't a lot better. AFAIK, no government organization was involved....'self censorship' should be celebrated most of the time, even if you disagree with the basis. In fact, well considered self-censorship is probably one of the best bulwarks against real censorship.
frankj1 Offline
#46 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Burner02 wrote:
That would be the suspected terrorist no fly list.


Guess this Franks fault.

I'm sorry.
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
dstieger wrote:
I don't have a problem with the initial station pulling it from their playlist....or any subsequent stations. I was only outraged that they felt they needed to publicize their decision for whatever reason..."Look at how progressive and considerate we are!!!"
The song isn't new, nor obscure...they weren't doing a public service of alerting the ignorant, naive public to some dangerous subtleties.
Then again, the cries of censorship and banning aren't a lot better. AFAIK, no government organization was involved....'self censorship' should be celebrated most of the time, even if you disagree with the basis. In fact, well considered self-censorship is probably one of the best bulwarks against real censorship.

grudgingly agree...
delta1 Offline
#48 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
dstieger wrote:
I don't have a problem with the initial station pulling it from their playlist....or any subsequent stations. I was only outraged that they felt they needed to publicize their decision for whatever reason..."Look at how progressive and considerate we are!!!"
The song isn't new, nor obscure...they weren't doing a public service of alerting the ignorant, naive public to some dangerous subtleties.
Then again, the cries of censorship and banning aren't a lot better. AFAIK, no government organization was involved....'self censorship' should be celebrated most of the time, even if you disagree with the basis. In fact, well considered self-censorship is probably one of the best bulwarks against real censorship.


bravo, dave...the heart of the problem, is "government censorship"...

private people, including people who operate radio stations that have government permission to use the public airways, fall outside that narrow definition...

if private people choose to censor themselves, or crumble to pressure from outside forces to self-censor, or are attacked for making choices about what to broadcast...that's all legitimate forms of expression...in the open marketplace of ideas...

and we hope our traditions of free speech can withstand flamethrowers who use their right to express themselves to incite and shut down those with opposing viewpoints...

so how does Trump's constant attack on the media, his daily mantra, "enemy of the people," fit this dynamic...


apologies for interjecting politics into this thread...
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,546
I blame Obama.. Mellow
delta1 Offline
#50 Posted: Sun, Dec 9 2018, 1:15 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
MACS wrote:
Know what's funny? I was not familiar with the song before the outrage... and now I've heard it like a dozen times. And I'm gonna download it and play it for anyone that will listen.

Snowflakes... shut your holes for a damn minute and think about things before you open your filthy traps.



I bet you got "Young Girl" on your playlist...
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