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Last post 5 years ago by ZRX1200. 73 replies replies.
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Credit Trump: Bump Stocks Bumped
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delta1 Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
the Trump Administration announced on Tuesday that it has banned bump stocks. Existing owners have 90 days to dispose of them. They will be illegal in March 2019.

Yay....

if I didn't become a convert to most of the CBid world's belief that additional gun control laws will not stop mass shootings, this might be a genuine cause for celebration...gee, thanks guys...

...even Trump's supporters are not saying anything...poor guy...
victor809 Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
****'s taking away my 2nd amendment.
ZRX1200 Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
The ATF has already ruled and this has now ALREADY been appealed with a lawsuit so buckle up. This is as dumb as bump stocks themselves which are really only good for wasting ammo.

Anyone who has their head not firmly placed in their Victor knows you can do a few different things that work just as well.
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
bummer.
I thought he was gonna improve my 401K
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
BTW they don’t work on a bipod or a Tripod so these were NOT used in Vegas.
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey look... Z's gone way down the crazy rabbit hole.

You're gonna have to prove a comment like that, since every media outlet identifies them as being used in Vegas.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 7:57 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
now you tell me.

Frankie Tripod
Phil222 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 8:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I'm not sure how this ban helps him politically. He did order to pull out of Syria today. IMO...maybe the best thing he's done in office.
delta1 Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 8:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
dayum...he's trying to be Presidential...while being stuck in quicksand...some small corner of my compassion for humanity causes me to have some sympathy for the dude...and yet I can't even get a con here to give him a hoo-rah...
ZRX1200 Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 9:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
I have to prove a CRAZY CONSPIRACY that an item THAT WILL NOT WORK ON A BIPOD OR TRIPOD? They have never released a comprehensive report......and I AM CRAZY.....no. That makes you a fool. There were PHOTOS is an AR with a bumpstock. There were also many weapons in that room that were never used. Both weapons photographed at the windows HAD BIPODS. I’m not reaching at all actually.....you are. But I think everyone outside your right 4 man circle jerk knows that. Also even an experienced shooter is NOT going to have a consistent rate of fire with a bumpstock. But I’m SURE YOU have actually used one right? And actually shot a fully automatic rifle right?
Speyside Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 9:40 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Z, I had not given this any thought and assumed that the explanation we were given of bump stocks being used in the Las Vegas shooting was true. Obviously I have limited knowledge on the subject. Could you give a short explanation on why a bump stock will not work with a bipod or tripod? Thank you in advance.
delta1 Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 9:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
audio recordings of the shooting sure sounded like auto fire...don't know how many bullets were fired, estimates are more than 1,100, but the sumbitch would have had a very tired trigger finger after only a few clips if he was shooting semi-auto...the shooting lasted for 7-10 minutes...I can't dry fire that long, but I aint trained...
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 9:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Listen to the the rhythm on the rate of fire, for it to be VERY consistent is damn near impossible with a bump stock.

Spey, it’s a piece of plastic from the stock that goes near the trigger. It’s there to keep your finger anchored in one place while the movement of the rifle moves the trigger so that it “bumps” your trigger finger. You can actually replicate this if you know how to handle a rifle properly, or you can do it with a RUBBERBAND......

Now if the rifle has a bipod or tripod it is IMPOSSIBLE for the rifle to MOVE enough for the bump function to work. It’s called SCIENCE Victor, you know that stuff you claim is sacrosanct?!!!
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:00 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46614001

Spey bs article but a great image
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:02 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
https://youtu.be/7RdAhTxyP64
ZRX1200 Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:08 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
https://youtu.be/PVfwFP_RwTQ
ZRX1200 Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
For the duration of time in Vegas, to have a consistent rate of fire with a bumpstock is beyond unlikely. Bullets were shot out of that room that did kill people.
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Ahh there's that super rational behavior from z.

Yeah... News reports from a huge number of sources say he used one. A very quick search of whether a bump stock will work with a bipod results in "yes, but not as effectively as without a bipod"... And I'm supposed to believe your ranting instead?

Yes z I read there is an issue with the weapon being able to shift to "bump" the trigger. But there are people who say it would work... Then there's you saying it wouldn't. ... And honestly... If I had to say who had more credibility (between a random internet person and you) I'd go with the random internet person. You've already proven to be susceptible to stupid conspiracy theories.
Speyside Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Thank you, now I follow what you are saying. What has been generally reported as the truth seems rather impossible.
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:19 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Did those great sources specifically discuss firing from a raised position in a building???

I’ll hold my breath.

Again.......rate of fire......listen to the recordings......can you get a bumpstock to periodically function on a bipod? Maybe firing FLAT. NOT from a raised position....
ZRX1200 Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
I can’t help your stupidity Victor, I tried for a while and gave up.
tailgater Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I've only half followed the details.
I've read that there were bump stocks and there were tripods set up in windows.
I assumed both were used.
And from what I know about bump stocks, I assumed it wasn't on the mounted rifle.

Z, are you saying that the audio indicates a full automatic? Too consistent for an extended timeframe with a bump?

I do find it odd that with so many weapons there hasn't been an easily available report indicating which type of rifle caused the deaths. I've heard different people talk about range or accuracy, etc. and I don't think accuracy is a factor. It was a crowd. He wasn't aiming for a specific person. Just fish in a barrel. As long as the bullets reached the targets.

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but neither do I believe the media when there's an obvious agenda.

ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
TG I’m saying the official story we’ve been given isn’t a simple pill to swallow, and those rifles in the windows didn’t have bump stocks. There is too much that makes no sense tactically, even accepting the guy was a suicidal loon. Why that’s many guns? The story stinks no matter how you cut it and that isn’t a conspiracy. Even if the bumpstocks were used from shoulder fire position it’s from a raised position....bumpstocks do NOT aid accuracy, and to fire from a raised position with how it would have to be held defies Occam’s razor
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 11:13 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He could have used multiple weapons including a bump stock without bipod and others with. I have t looked that close because I don’t care. I just do t jump straight to folks are lying and conspiracy. Conspiracies are just too hard to pull off to be involved in nearly every subject.
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 11:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Spray some aim some. Spraying at a mass of people could be effective. Once they spread better aim be mo better.
Abrignac Offline
#26 Posted: Wed, Dec 19 2018, 11:23 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
Here is my take.

ASSUMPTIONS:
He fired 1,100 rounds over 7-8 minutes.

A learned shooter can easily fire 2.5 rounds per second with an AR. Competition shooters upwards of 3.25 per second.

Assume only full 30 round magazines are used.

MATH:
1100 / 30 = ~37 magazines

1 magazine per 12 seconds plus 1 second to reload = 37 seconds per magazine

37 magazines @ 13 seconds per magazine = 481 seconds

481 seconds = 8.02 minutes

Conclusions:
Bump stocks aren't required to fire off that many rounds in the time giving.

On the other hand, I can tell you with absolute certainty that bump stocks send accuracy into the toilet. It has more to do with trigger control than anything. When you compare the number of rounds fired to the number of hits it indicates his actual hit to shot ratio is about what would be expected with a high cyclic rate of shots regardless of the use of bump stocks since he was shooting into a crowd.

It's not impossible to think that some of the firearms he used had bump stocks, because I'm sure he heated up the barrels of more than one. If they were used with a bi-pod or a tripod their marginal functionality would have without a doubt be diminished, but the firearm would have still functioned as it would have with a "normal" buttstock.

That said, I suspect his first hundred shots accounted for 98.2% of his hits. By then I would think his target environment would have been much less crowed and much more mobile.



At the end of the day, the ban is fairly useless.
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 2:58 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Of course it's useless Anthony... A bump stock is just tool. Whether it's an effective tool for killing people or not an effective tool for killing people is really rather irrelevant.

As for z's ridiculous assertions that bump stocks weren't used.... That's basic conspiracy theory crap. None of the media demonizing bump stocks even knew they existed until the Vegas shooting. They had no reason to publicize the use of them unless they were used.

As z seems to think he's the expert on every position the shooter chose to fire from, and every weapon he chose to bring into the hotel room, and whether he used some weapons and others just brought for no reason.... Well, that's a simple sign he's a nut
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 7:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
When did he say they weren't used..?? Think
frankj1 Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 9:42 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
#5
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 9:43 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
d'oh!



Well, Obama said they were ok... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 11:30 AM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
would you stand in front of a guy shooting a rifle using a bump stock ?
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 11:37 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I wouldn't stand in front of a guy holding a rifle... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 11:39 AM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
ThumpUp
tailgater Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
would you stand in front of a guy shooting a rifle using a bump stock ?


Never let the guy with the tripod stand behind you.

Or so I heard.
victor809 Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
....does this mean Frankie tripod can't use a bump stock?
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
He just thinks about baseball... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 8:44 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
....does this mean Frankie tripod can't use a bump stock?

the rapid return feature has me thinking
delta1 Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
oddly...the image that popped into mind is of the New Year party favors that uncurl and lengthen when you blow on the wooden end and make a kazoo like razzing sound...
Abrignac Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 10:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
Thank God I haven’t met Frank. Haven’t seen him, otherwise I don’t think I would ever get that image out of my head.
frankj1 Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 11:04 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
it's a blessing...
and a curse
ZRX1200 Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 2:40 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Can’t send photos with a duct taped flip phone bro.

Shalom havarim
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:38 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
true.

thanks
tommy boy Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:51 AM EST
Joined: 06-15-2011
Posts: 5
So if bump stocks are inaccurate what are they good for? I'd hate to be around VP Cheney with a bump stock firearm in his hands! The ban makes sense.
Gene363 Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 11:26 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
tommy boy wrote:
So if bump stocks are inaccurate what are they good for? I'd hate to be around VP Cheney with a bump stock firearm in his hands! The ban makes sense.


Incremental gun control, first bump stocks, then parts, then semi autos. If someone proposed outlawing Pod Casts, because they don't reach many people and we still have newspapers and TV for freedom of speech, it would clearly be violation of the The First Amendment, it should not be any different for The Second Amendment.
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 2:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
what about hand grenades? Not every thing is creeping anything.

yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected speech, but it hasn't led to loss of all free speech.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 3:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I called a guy a freak in a theatre once... He didn't reply tho... Mellow
Abrignac Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
tommy boy wrote:
So if bump stocks are inaccurate what are they good for? I'd hate to be around VP Cheney with a bump stock firearm in his hands! The ban makes sense.


Cool factor....
RMAN4443 Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
I called a guy a freak in a theatre once... He didn't reply tho... Mellow

no one finger wave or anything? Anxious
Gene363 Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
frankj1 wrote:
what about hand grenades? Not every thing is creeping anything.

yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected speech, but it hasn't led to loss of all free speech.


Pay no attention to the warming water in which you are swimming. There is already a bill in Congress to bad parts kits and semiautomatic firearms.
victor809 Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Um... Gene... Pretty sure they were going after those before they went after bump stocks. I've heard people complaining about that for forever.

Bumpstocks should be legal... Because who cares? If a dude wants to mow down a crowd of people we'll arrest him afterwards (assuming he's white) and put him in jail. That's how law works. I am not personally that concerned about what damage he may do before being arrested... The world isn't meant to be that safe.
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