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Govt shutdown?
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victor809 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Am I reading this right? Did short bus mctinyhands just shut down the government?

He said he wouldn't sign the continuing resolution, and a bunch of republican congresscritters are pissed off?

You know what a country who's market is in a downward slide really needs? Anxiety over the country's continuing operations.....
rfenst Online
#2 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 4:23 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
victor809 wrote:
Am I reading this right? Did short bus mctinyhands just shut down the government?

He said he wouldn't sign the continuing resolution, and a bunch of republican congresscritters are pissed off?

You know what a country who's market is in a downward slide really needs? Anxiety over the country's continuing operations.....


That will teach them!
opelmanta1900 Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Who is the "them" in that sentence? People who voted for trump?
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
The Democrats.. for not giving Trump the money they promised Obama... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
damn that democrat controlled congress.
deadeyedick Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,087
From the last survey I saw more people will blame the Dems + both than will just blame it all on the Repubs alone..

Can you say compromise?
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
huh. Trump said it was on him, I'd like to see that poll


unlike drafter who wants to see that pole
rfenst Online
#8 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
teedubbya wrote:
huh. Trump said it was on him, I'd like to see that poll


unlike drafter who wants to see that pole


Polacks?
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 6:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think you spelled buttocks wrong
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 6:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Mad
deadeyedick Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 6:57 PM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,087
teedubbya wrote:
huh. Trump said it was on him, I'd like to see that poll


unlike drafter who wants to see that pole


Look around. USA Today Poll a few days ago

3% Undecided
24% Dems
30% Both
43% Repubs
Speyside Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
And Putin keeps on laughing.
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 9:18 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
especially when Trump announced "Mission Accomplished" in Syria and said he's gonna withdraw our troops from there...
victor809 Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey now! This is my government shutdown thread!!! No thread jacking it with Trump's premature proclamation problems! Get your own thread!

;)
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Dec 20 2018, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
(of course in a super troll move, ISIS executed a ton of people in Syria today.... Just to show they're still around)
delta1 Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
House GOP passed a bill to provide funding for a wall...now it's up to the Senate ... if the Senate passes it, no government shutdown...Trump gets a big win...stay tuned...
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sounds like everyone involved is expecting a shutdown.

And trump is now calling it a democrat shutdown.

You know... Because they have control of the house and the Senate and the presidency.
Speyside Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Sounds like he wants us out of Afghanistan also. Guess Putin gave him a call.
Abrignac Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
Trump shutdown? Highly unlikely. Here’s a Civics reminder for those who either forgot or are ignorant of the process.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-eYBZFEzf8

The current spending resolution expires at midnight. Unless, Congress sends him a bill that he will sign it’s their fault. It’s that pesky thing called the Constitution.

While we are on the subject, spending bills MUST originate in the House of Representatives. It then is sent to the Senate who will likely make changes. Those changes are then negotiated by House and Senate conference committees. Once both sides agree and pass the conference report it is sent to the President for his signature.

See video link above.

We should all be happy that Trump has reminded Congress of the separation of powers doctrine the Constitution provides. I mean if the President signs anything Congress chooses to pass, then why the need for separation of power?

Then we here that the Republicans control Congress. This is silly and false. Another safeguard in place is the current super requirement of a super majority in the Senate. It requires bi-partisanship absent one party having an overwhelming majority.

Since the Republicans and Democrats have wasted resources and opportunities trying to one-up and gain control they haven’t passed a budget in years. We have been governed by continuing resolutions.

So here we are with a Congressional caused government shutdown.
Abrignac Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:48 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
What Trump should have done was starting a couple months back he should have used the bully pulpit to remind Congress that he would not sign a continuing resolution absent wall funding. Then every week or do keep publicly reminding them. That way it would be mistakable whose fault it was.

At the end of the day though he would still get blamed because 98.2% of his detractors don’t have a clue how the process works.
Gene363 Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,810
Fantastic news! We're broke, the longer the better, besides, you'll still be required to pay your taxes, no shutdown for taxpayers.
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 4:57 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Both houses passed something he refused to sign. He indicated to both houses he was going to sign it before they passed it. The right wing news infotainment folks raked him over the coals then he changed his mind. Congress was taken by surprise. Trumps first call was to Rush.

He refuses to sign it over a stupid wall everyone knows is pure rhetoric.

No civic lesson needed here. Trump said it was his shut down and he is correct.

This guy is a car wreck and I can’t believe folks still buy his shtick. I hope we can undo most of his damage when he is gone.
teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 5:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Gene I know you know shutdowns cost money they don’t save money.

My concern about his actions isn’t the “shutdown”. I don’t find it to be a big deal but trying to say he doesn’t own it is laughable. This shutdown will be small. Most things got funded through other mechanisms. This isn’t your typical shutdown.

My concern is his lies and erratic decisions. I also fear as he gets cornered he will use scorched earth while some folks cheer him on. We are creeping up to a dangerous tipping point.

But at least he removed the sanctions on Putin’s oligarch buddies and did his bidding in Syria

But Hillary.
Phil222 Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 5:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
It would be pretty funny if his own House and Senate override his veto. Did he veto or just not sign?
Abrignac Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 5:09 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
teedubbya wrote:
Both houses passed something he refused to sign. He indicated to both houses he was going to sign it before they passed it. The right wing news infotainment folks raked him over the coals then he changed his mind. Congress was taken by surprise. Trumps first call was to Rush.

He refuses to sign it over a stupid wall everyone knows is pure rhetoric.

No civic lesson needed here. Trump said it was his shut down and he is correct.

This guy is a car wreck and I can’t believe folks still buy his shtick. I hope we can undo most of his damage when he is gone.



Gonna have to throw the BS flag. He’s been saying wall funding was a requirement since he was elected. A the last moment he caved, then realized that he looked like a puzzie so he decided not to sign it. Congress knew what he wanted yet chose not to negotiate to common ground.

Let the govt shutdown. Keep it shut down until the azzholes on the hill work together to produce a bill they and Trump can agree on. That’s their job!
Speyside Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 5:43 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The job of Congress I think is not to do Trumps bidding. We have 3 separate branches of federal government. It is a system of checks and balances. If you think the job of Congress is to do Trumps bidding, perhaps you should move to Russia. The constitution if I remember right says by the people, for the people, and of the people. The government works for us including Trump. His desire for a wall is not the will of the people. It is the desire of his base who are a bunch of idiots who do not understand the nuance of how to effectively control a border.
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 5:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
Speyside wrote:
The job of Congress I think is not to do Trumps bidding. We have 3 separate branches of federal government. It is a system of checks and balances. If you think the job of Congress is to do Trumps bidding, perhaps you should move to Russia. The constitution if I remember right says by the people, for the people, and of the people. The government works for us including Trump. His desire for a wall is not the will of the people. It is the desire of his base who are a bunch of idiots who do not understand the nuance of how to effectively control a border.



So I’m an idiot? Go look in the mirror if you want to see an idiot because based on your post you are one. We have 3 branches of government who share power equally. The only accurate thing you said is it’s not Congreses job to do Trumps bidding. Obviously, you’re ignorant to the fact that the president’s job description doesn’t include a requirement to rubber stamp bills Congress sends him.

Now, please explain why YOU think Trump has no understanding of the nuances of border security.
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Anthony... Trump's refusal to sign a bill absent a wall does not make it congresses problem any more than if Congress handed him a bill to sign that included a "remove the president's tiny pen1s" line item would be his problem.

The point of separate powers is for them to negotiate an agreement.

Trump isn't moving from his position of "5B for a wall which I originally promised wouldnt cost the US anything". That's not negotiation. That's a toddler demanding their way.

And you even admitted that he had negotiated an agreement, which he then backed down on because someone called him a *****... (Or to make it a last minute scramble so all the news is on this and not paying attention to his Syria withdraw debacle or the economy trashing) ... That's solely his fault.

If some dude on Craigslist told you he'd sell you a dryer for 50$, and when you swing by to pick it up he's decided that was too low and he really thinks it should be 500$, and he won't take a penny less ... Who's fault is it?
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So they moved the current house approved bill to the floor of the Senate.

The vote to even vote on the bill was 47:47... But they need 60 to pass it.

I'm not sure they're going to get what they want, given they didn't even have all republicans behind them.
dstieger Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:40 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Spent a good portion of today in the Senate gallery watching our elected representatives do what they do best. Nothing ....nothing at all
ZRX1200 Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
He said he was open to the CR he never said he WAS going to sign it.

Congress is wasting their time if they knowingly send something that isn’t going to be signed unless they want to make a political statement. You know like no more Obamacare when we can’t actually stop it, and when we can we don’t have the balls......

Oh if only we were ruled by the squishy middle. You are and you don’t see it and that’s what got Trump elected. They are hired to SOLVE PROBLEMS anymore, they’re hired to WRESTLE PROBLEMS THEY CREATED. Think about that for a minute.

Anthony is 100% correct
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 6:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Immature gamesmanship.

If his position was "I won't sign anything without 5b for a wall" then saying "I'll take a look at it" after it's passed by Congress (which is literally what he said) is just wasting time.

So either he was playing stupid games or he was lying.

And if his stance is "nothing unless I get 5b for a wall" then we have a toddler in the white house (we already knew we did) who will kick and scream and shut down government until he gets his way. That's not negotiation. That's not utilizing the checks and balances of our government. That's attempting to be a dictator in the weakest most cuck way possible.
victor809 Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And if he was wasting time, then he purposely wasted government money to try to push this to brinksmanship.

Government shutdowns are a huge waste.

People don't work... They sit around on "vacation" (I know, I lived in DC during the last big one)... And they don't get paid.

But guess what... After the government is funded, they get paid for the time they weren't funded. So we pay them for work that didn't get done, because the government was in shutdown.

Wasteful bullsh!t
Abrignac Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
victor809 wrote:
Immature gamesmanship.

If his position was "I won't sign anything without 5b for a wall" then saying "I'll take a look at it" after it's passed by Congress (which is literally what he said) is just wasting time.

So either he was playing stupid games or he was lying.

And if his stance is "nothing unless I get 5b for a wall" then we have a toddler in the white house (we already knew we did) who will kick and scream and shut down government until he gets his way. That's not negotiation. That's not utilizing the checks and balances of our government. That's attempting to be a dictator in the weakest most cuck way possible.


Why should he budge if Congress won’t budge. Pot meet kettle.
Abrignac Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
victor809 wrote:
And if he was wasting time, then he purposely wasted government money to try to push this to brinksmanship.

Government shutdowns are a huge waste.

People don't work... They sit around on "vacation" (I know, I lived in DC during the last big one)... And they don't get paid.

But guess what... After the government is funded, they get paid for the time they weren't funded. So we pay them for work that didn't get done, because the government was in shutdown.

Wasteful bullsh!t


You’re right it is wasteful. If they want to get paid for staying home they should have to burn vacation. One more example of government inefficiently.

What’s the next bullchit reason to keep the government open?
Speyside Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:37 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Congress needs to pass a bill that Trump can agree on?
Simple fact, they don't bow to Trump. Nor does most of America. Only his supporters do. If you want a dictator type of leader move to Russia. As to the nuances of border security, read up on it, there are many more effective ways than to build a wall. And yes, I think Trump supporters are idiots. A big difference I think from those who voted against Hillary. That I can respect. Is your rear end jealous of the crap that comes out of your mouth?
victor809 Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
You’re right it is wasteful. If they want to get paid for staying home they should have to burn vacation. One more example of government inefficiently.

What’s the next bullchit reason to keep the government open?


I haven't said we should keep it open.
Nor have I said he should budge.

But his dumb, tiny handed azz should own it. This is his non-standard request to add something to the budget, so it's his shutdown if congress can't come to an agreement to add it.

I would have said the same thing 8 years ago if Obama had refused to sign a spending bill unless it added obamacare, and you know you would have said it was his fault then.

If trump wants to refuse to sign anything until his wall is funded that is his prerogative (funny... I didn't realize how that word was spelled until now), but to pretend that this is congresses fault for not doing his bidding is childish.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
He was promised funding twice on previous CRs and it didn’t happen, so if you’re an ignorant mouth breather you might not understand why he did what he did.

Spey, for someone who loves bipartisanship you aren’t getting the point of Anthony’s post.
dstieger Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Sat next to a couple from Australia in there this afternoon. They stayed for hours. I sort of joked about the embarrassing lack of progress from our Congress. But the Aussie said he was really honored to have an opportunity to be there at the greatest example of democracy in the world. It was somewhat sobering.
victor809 Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 8:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Theres a poetic justice to someone being upset that trump didn't get something he was promised.

Not that he should have needed funding. Mexico was paying for it...
Abrignac Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 8:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
victor809 wrote:
I haven't said we should keep it open.


Re-read my post. I wasn't implying that you had. I just called the reason you gave for not shutting down
bullsh!t.

ram27bat
Abrignac Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 8:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
Speyside wrote:
Congress needs to pass a bill that Trump can agree on?


That or pass one where they have the votes to override his veto. That is there job, or so says the Constitution.

It seems you slept through a few Civics classes. So, I'll toss a lifeline.

Quote:
Section 7

1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

2: Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

3: Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
Abrignac Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 8:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
Speyside wrote:
If you want a dictator type of leader move to Russia.


It seems reading comprehension also isn't a strong suit of yours. I have consistently stated my support of the Constitutional separation of powers. But, since you think Trump should sign whatever Congress sends him that would imply that you are in favor of a Congressional Dictatorship. Perhaps you should pack your bags and your chopsticks and head in an easterly direction, far easterly.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Throw the bs flag all you want but he said Mexico would pay for it. Congress moved a budget he said he would approve. He changed his mind again. After a right wing media induced fit. He is not a man of his word and not worthy of anyone in here carrying his water.
victor809 Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
...hey now tw... There's a couple people here who I think he's worthy of...
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The guys a train wreck and we are about to see something ugly.
Abrignac Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
teedubbya wrote:
Throw the bs flag all you want but he said Mexico would pay for it. Congress moved a budget he said he would approve. He changed his mind again. After a right wing media induced fit. He is not a man of his word and not worthy of anyone in here carrying his water.


Our opinion of him as both a President and a person are much closer than you give me credit.

Unfortunately, he’s a poor, poor spokesperson for a platform which I agree with in parts and disagree in others.

ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:37 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
Funny you see what you want to too Teedubya.

Both sides of the isle are as clean as the wind driven snow....in the house and senate. That’s the legislative branch Spey
Speyside Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 10:52 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
LMAO! Everything you point out seems based on the assumption that the majority of Americans want a wall, and the majority of the House and Senate want a wall. Guess what, we don't. But please continue with your delusion that Trump supporters are the majority of Americans. Guess what, you aren't. There will be no wall because there are not enough votes to pass a bill for it. As for your civics lesson, quit posting 3rd grade ideas. You only supported your position. You gave no critical ideas as to why you are right, which you aren't.
Abrignac Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Dec 21 2018, 11:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,270
Speyside wrote:
LMAO! Everything you point out seems based on the assumption that the majority of Americans want a wall, and the majority of the House and Senate want a wall. Guess what, we don't. But please continue with your delusion that Trump supporters are the majority of Americans. Guess what, you aren't. There will be no wall because there are not enough votes to pass a bill for it. As for your civics lesson, quit posting 3rd grade ideas. You only supported your position. You gave no critical ideas as to why you are right, which you aren't.



See post #43Beer
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