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Last post 5 years ago by Whistlebritches. 71 replies replies.
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Democrat Senator's Speech on Immigration that I can get behind
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dstieger Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Found the vid in 1 while looking for a different one. I seem to recall seeing Barbara Jordan talk on immigration and stress the benefits to all (immigrants and new homeland) that were realized by having some by-in to acclimation or 'Americanization'....not sure how she phrased it exactly. That's what I was looking for, but the vid posted above was very good too. Goes a long way towards showing that the arguments of today have nothing to do with how we can improve immigration for America, but everything to do with talking past each other and name calling.
The bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform was about debating facts, offering suggestions for improvement that nearly anyone could appreciate....then again, I think most minds were a little more open to listening and discussing than appears to be the case today.

At any rate, I am not sure how we might possible get back to honest discussion of how immigrants might integrate into American society. I think we missed a good opportunity back in the 70's or 80's to make English an official language. Not sure that could ever pass any legislative body today. I could be wrong, but I think that 'we' go too far in trying to accommodate individual and 'foreign' differences, and not far enough in having everyone be American.

I'd also like to find a path out from under the cloud that appears by tossing the 'racism' tag. It immediately derails any meaningful debate....unfortunately, I think that oftentimes it is used just for that purpose
Gene363 Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 12:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
It will be difficult, there have been several "fixes", with amnesties, that failed to control additional illegal immigration. These failed solutions were supported by both parties and never effectively controlled the border. Because previous promises to control the border were disingenuous, there is not going to be any more compromise without border control first.

Again, both parties are guilty as F on this issue, there is no moral high ground for either party.
Whistlebritches Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 8:42 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
victor809 wrote:
Why would I retract whistle?
Why would I provide evidence?

Seriously, it's laughable that you bother demanding it. We've had this discussion on this forum many times. You didn't believe it then. Why bother rehashing it when it isn't even the primary point of the discussion?


Why do I ask?Because you cannot provide evidence as it does not exist.Just another cop out on your part.
delta1 Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 8:47 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
true...Trump's demonizing rhetoric about immigrants and determination to waste money on a wall, that Mexico will pay for, has driven a deeper wedge between libs and cons who may've been able to find common ground...

living in CA, where a foundation of our economy depends upon a steady source of labor that the native population can't fill, the issue is a sensitive one...this need has led to many pro-immigration stands that are contrary to what the majority of the US believes or desires...
delta1 Offline
#55 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Whistlebritches wrote:
Why do I ask?Because you cannot provide evidence as it does not exist.Just another cop out on your part.


hey Bro, in post #46, I posted a "neutral" source, Wikipedia, that discusses Trump's "racism"...take a look ...


I don't think it'll change your mind, because racism seems to have several different meanings in the US...I know and respect and am friends with many people who disagree with my take on racism...I suspect some of them believe me to be a racist...
victor809 Offline
#56 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 8:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... your refusal to believe there is evidence doesn't mean there isn't.

This discussion has been had many times on this forum. Why would I have to have it again?

I would post quotes from his Twitter account, and links to video of him saying racist crap... Hell someone even threw you a bone about his past actions. You would do one of the following:
1- claim that in the context it isn't racist
2- say he is misunderstood
3- say whatever minority in question is being too sensitive

Why bother going round and round when I can just skip those steps and get straight to calling each other names? Saves on time.
victor809 Offline
#57 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 8:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
It's 2019. Let's be a bit more efficient this year.
Gene363 Offline
#58 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
delta1 wrote:
true...Trump's demonizing rhetoric about immigrants and determination to waste money on a wall, that Mexico will pay for, has driven a deeper wedge between libs and cons who may've been able to find common ground...

living in CA, where a foundation of our economy depends upon a steady source of labor that the native population can't fill, the issue is a sensitive one...this need has led to many pro-immigration stands that are contrary to what the majority of the US believes or desires...



A bus ride from the homeless camps to the migrant labor camps would go a long way to fixing that problem.
ZRX1200 Offline
#59 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Demonizing rhetoric.....like when he directly quotes demon crats.

I find it hilarious when a group that despises Big Corps hides from the fact that wages have been depressed and refuse to see this as a source. What a joke....... picking lettuce isn’t the only job the messicans take.
delta1 Offline
#60 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 9:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Gene363 wrote:
[/h]

A bus ride from the homeless camps to the migrant labor camps would go a long way to fixing that problem.



there was a "migrant worker" section of a comprehensive immigration reform plan at one time...made sense...



ZRX1200 wrote:
Demonizing rhetoric.....like when he directly quotes demon crats.

I find it hilarious when a group that despises Big Corps hides from the fact that wages have been depressed and refuse to see this as a source. What a joke....... picking lettuce isn’t the only job the messicans take.



true...nobody is going after Big Corporation, who also provide work and shelter for illegal workers, undercutting US wages...
Whistlebritches Offline
#61 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 10:44 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
delta1 wrote:
true...Trump's demonizing rhetoric about immigrants and determination to waste money on a wall, that Mexico will pay for, has driven a deeper wedge between libs and cons who may've been able to find common ground...

living in CA, where a foundation of our economy depends upon a steady source of labor that the native population can't fill, the issue is a sensitive one...this need has led to many pro-immigration stands that are contrary to what the majority of the US believes or desires...


Not can't fill......won't fill.Your steady source of labor already exist and is US citizens in Cali presently living on welfare and an ebt card.It is time to Make America Great Again and putting these lazy bastids to work is an excellent place to start.
Gene363 Offline
#62 Posted: Wed, Jan 2 2019, 11:33 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
ZRX1200 wrote:
Demonizing rhetoric.....like when he directly quotes demon crats.

I find it hilarious when a group that despises Big Corps hides from the fact that wages have been depressed and refuse to see this as a source. What a joke....... picking lettuce isn’t the only job the messicans take.


That is why I blame both parties,

delta1 wrote:
there was a "migrant worker" section of a comprehensive immigration reform plan at one time...made sense...




true...nobody is going after Big Corporation, who also provide work and shelter for illegal workers, undercutting US wages...


There was, but illegals are cheaper and don't make waves if they get hurt or killed on the job.
delta1 Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 2:22 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Whistlebritches wrote:
Not can't fill......won't fill.Your steady source of labor already exist and is US citizens in Cali presently living on welfare and an ebt card.It is time to Make America Great Again and putting these lazy bastids to work is an excellent place to start.



the average hourly wage of CA's farm workers.... $14.74/hr

how do we force those people to take those jobs who are physically able?
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gotta get them clean first.

Appears to be a ton of drug use among the homeless.

Unless you put programs in place to successfully clean them up they aren't going to be worth 3$/hr
victor809 Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 3:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Was just reading an article that the trump golf club was paying an illegal immigrant 14.80$ as kitchen staff.

Appears they had a few of them in various roles.

So much hypocrisy....
dstieger Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:
Was just reading an article that the trump golf club was paying an illegal immigrant 14.80$ as kitchen staff.

Appears they had a few of them in various roles.

So much hypocrisy....


That's horrible. If they'd just use legals, they could probably get away with paying minimum wage.
Illegal aliens cause inflated wages!!

Are you suggesting that Donald knew there was an illegal in his kitchen in New Jersey? And that the illegal didn't hide the fact that she was illegal? Did they eVerify her?

I do think that if someone knowingly hired her...with full knowledge that she was illegal....that person and/or his/her company should be held accountable
victor809 Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I did not suggest tiny hands knew. I don't think he has the mental capacity to put on his pants, he probably doesn't understand how to hire people.

The article identified that her manager knew, and apparently when she reminded him prior to secret service arrival, she was taken off some sort of list (but apparently remained on site and working)... So the facilities appear to be actively and knowlingly using illegal labor. Whether tiny hands mcwindowlicker knew when the facilities we're opened or if it's something that occurred later I don't know.
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
(I know though right? 15$/hr for illegal labor??? For relatively low impact work!?)
Whistlebritches Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 8:16 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
delta1 wrote:
the average hourly wage of CA's farm workers.... $14.74/hr

how do we force those people to take those jobs who are physically able?




Cut off their benefits
delta1 Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 8:21 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
dunno...many of them would rather do crime than hard labor...

maybe we oughta "Cut off their balls" ?
Whistlebritches Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Jan 3 2019, 8:31 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
delta1 wrote:
dunno...many of them would rather do crime than hard labor...

maybe we oughta "Cut off their balls" ?


Ovary removal as well.............I like the way you think,sometimes.
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