America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 5 years ago by DrafterX. 58 replies replies.
2 Pages12>
Trump's Presidential Address...
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
... this is going to great!
frankj1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
fact checkers have been easily blowing up most of his pre-game stats...but maybe he will change the script. He has been given enough lead time to clean up the lies, hope he's smart enough to take advantage of that.

however, if he declares Emergency and diverts military building funds to the stupid wall, it could end the shutdown.
strange way to get credit.
tailgater Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I'm on the record as being anti-wall.
Just enforce existing laws and make the free-loaders go home or starve. Cold hearted maybe, but I have no patience for thieves.
Also increase the penalty for those who hire the illegals.


With that said, it's funny how so many on the left, including some on these boards, were so vocal about Trump failing to build the wall and seeing it as yet another campaign lie.
Now that he's going above and beyond reason to fund it those same people are complaining and ridiculing him.

Like I said: Funny.







frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
I'm on the record as being anti-wall.
Just enforce existing laws and make the free-loaders go home or starve. Cold hearted maybe, but I have no patience for thieves.
Also increase the penalty for those who hire the illegals.


With that said, it's funny how so many on the left, including some on these boards, were so vocal about Trump failing to build the wall and seeing it as yet another campaign lie.
Now that he's going above and beyond reason to fund it those same people are complaining and ridiculing him.

Like I said: Funny.








it's too easy to win a debate when you get to speak for the other side.
His failure to build a wall (so far) is a victory. The lie is in who will pay for it...and the need for it, as you already agree.
frankj1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
the whole "show" was an uncomfortable snooze fest
vebswb Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-28-2016
Posts: 1
Sorry to be off topic but I won my bids and Tuesday is my ship day. Do they automatically charge and ship since they have my info?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
First of all vagweb, no apologies necessary... Second, Frank wants to speak to you... Lastly, kingofthecove can send you to the perfect person to answer that question...
frankj1 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Joel, do me a favor and handle this one.
ZRX1200 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
His speech was great
opelmanta1900 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Here's the deal vegemite... You joined up with us nearly 2 years ago... You disappear without a peep... Then you show up and threadjack a politic thread without so much as an apology... Frank and your mother have lost sleep - SLEEP - young man...

Call Frank and then your mom and tell them you're sorry... And I don't think Horst is awake, so pm jaderose about your original question...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
ZRX1200 wrote:
His speech was great

Thanks... Very prophetic of you...
Speyside Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Joel, pretty good. You almost sound like a member of the tribe. A little work on the kvetching and you are there.
tailgater Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
it's too easy to win a debate when you get to speak for the other side.
His failure to build a wall (so far) is a victory. The lie is in who will pay for it...and the need for it, as you already agree.



If remembering what people said 12 and 18 months ago and contrasting it with what they say today is "speaking for the other side" then yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Brick wall

dstieger Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
At some point, citizens from the left and citizens who support Trump are going to look at each other and realize that all those fools....President AND Congressmen and women.....that all of them are so full of chit....that everything about the wall and the shutdown and budget impasse are about nothing other than politics with little regard for our welfare and future. Hard to believe that fans on both sides remain dug in. My biggest hope is that both sides get damaged enough in these stupid political skirmishes that they open the door just a crack for a third party....
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
We've got to stop all this 'irregular migration'.... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
If remembering what people said 12 and 18 months ago and contrasting it with what they say today is "speaking for the other side" then yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Brick wall


can't recall the lib's saying he's a liar because he didn't build the wall.
doesn't even make sense.
you'd think they'd be joyful that he had failed to that point.

For a zillion other things, certainly, they called (and call) him a liar.
delta1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
apologies for my laziness...this is a cut and paste post from another topic, but can be shoehorned in to fit, somewhat, here...


delta1 wrote:
yeah...all three showed us how low the talent level has fallen among our nation's leaders...don't forget the POTUS's lack of conviction amid his litany of lies while trying to make a case for ........did he even say the "wall"?

the "best deal maker" didn't even look like he believed what he was saying, staring at the teleprompters like that was the first time he had seen those words...that's the scariest takeaway from that public spectacle...this was his signature promise from the beginning of his campaign...and he couldn't muster the energy to make a compelling case, prolly because he knows the "crisis at the border" is a made up story, a hoax, fake news...

the POTUS is the most important of the three clown circus last night...now we know why he avoids prime time addresses to the union...he seems most comfortable doing campaign rallies where his followers cheer whatever stuff he makes up...that unfortunately is not part of the POTUS job description...


dstieger Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
You're forgiven....I've got a cut and paste, too. I thought this was as good of a current assessment as I've read anywhere....except for trying to have fun with the national emergency stuff....I'm kinda tired of any of the media reports that get up an arms about crap the president may or may not have considered, asked about, thought, said in private, even threatened.....I really don't gaf if he asked someone in his legal team if he could cut off someone's head....let me know when he actually does (or orders done) the stupid chit....
==================

"Well, that was the shortest, most easily resolved national emergency in U.S. history. Twelve hours ago, the president was preparing to set aside the regular process of law. By 9 p.m. Eastern Time? Not so much.

Perhaps somebody pointed out that 15-year-long civil-engineering projects do not look very convincingly like emergency measures. “My house is burning! Time to begin the process of calling for design proposals for a new fire station.”

President Trump is about to discover the reverse side of Richard Neustadt’s famous observation that the most important presidential power is the power to persuade. Trump’s conduct as candidate and president long ago deprived him of any power to persuade anyone not already predisposed to support him. To date, Trump has governed by leveraging his high approval rating within the Republican Party. From the point of view of former Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Trump’s 90 percent approval rating among Republicans mattered a lot more than his 39 percent approval among Americans in general.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is not susceptible to that “majority of the minority” logic. What she has to worry about is Trump’s strength among Democratic-leaning voters. That strength, Trump squandered long ago.

There is a real immigration problem on the border. Central American migrants have figured out that by showing up at the border in family units, they will be admitted into the country pending the adjudication of an asylum claim. The asylum system is overwhelmed, adjudications take months or years—and long before then, the would-be migrants can vanish into the U.S. labor market. Few Central Americans prevail in their asylum claims. Almost all end up staying, anyway.

The solution to that problem is not a lengthy process of design, tendering, land expropriation, grading, and construction. The solution is to get more adjudicators into the asylum system now. If cases are resolved fast, and border-crossers removed promptly, the surge of asylum seekers will abate, as it abated in 2015 after the Obama administration cracked down on the 2014 Central American border surge.

But Trump has never wanted a solution. He has wanted a divisive issue and a personal monument. Futile though that monument may be, he could have gotten it, too, had he been willing to trade something attractive to Democrats. But Trump was never willing to bargain. Senate Republicans would not let him: They saw no point in the border wall and were unwilling to barter for it.

More fatefully though, Trump’s vision of leadership allows no room for bartering. He imagines the presidency to operate on the principle: “I command, you obey.” More even than his wall, he wanted to coerce the Democrats into a surrender by the sheer force of his mighty will. Except Trump did not have the clout to achieve that.

“Leverage: don’t make deals without it.” The words appeared under Donald Trump’s byline on page 55 of the 1987 bestseller, The Art of the Deal. Trump did not write them, and he seems not to have understood how to apply them. In this budget shutdown, Trump discarded his leverage from the very start, by declaring for the cameras that the budget shutdown was his decision, his responsibility. When the shutdown began to hurt, Trump and his surrogates hastily tried to transfer the onus—but it was too late. Everybody knew it was Trump’s doing, and that it was done for reasons rejected by large majorities of Americans.

The idea of invoking “emergency powers” was a last grasp for the leverage Trump had already abdicated, and it had to be abandoned for fear of what the courts and public opinion would say.

After the January 8 Oval Office address, there remains little doubt how this shutdown will end. Sooner or later—probably sooner—it will end the way Trump’s threats of nuclear war upon North Korea ended: with a sudden Trump about-face. It is now only a matter of time. The polls will arrive over the next hours. Democrats and Republicans will both see that Trump did not move public opinion in his favor. They may see that Trump could not even motivate very many Americans to watch him. The panic slowly building among congressional Republicans will boil. Trump, trapped without a decent exit in a predicament of his own making, will yield everything and get nothing.

Trump will cope by locking himself into the Fox News closed-feedback system of flattering disinformation, emerging only to emit enraged tweets pretending he won big and denouncing the media for reporting otherwise. He may even convince himself to believe it. His political allies will repeat it without believing it.

But he will have lost. Lost humiliatingly. And he will have done it almost entirely to himself, before the amazed eyes of the opponents who, dumbfounded, watched him do it to himself, without a plan or even much of a reason, other than the empty and fleeting joy of feeling briefly powerful by inflicting pain."

The Atlantic; David Frum
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
anyway...

as a person who believes in language determining/defining/limiting thought and reality and not the other way around...
I'm finding it interesting that the "wall" word is being minimized in recent weeks.
I'm guessing on purpose... soft, subtle easing away.

I've noticed a shift toward the more widely accepted "border security"...
dstieger Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
art of the deal.....similar to the author above describing.....Trump can call it something else now....dems can give him something as long as it isn't a 'wall'....and later Trump can declare victory and claim he got his wall....its all a fn game ....to all of them
delta1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
insightful article...nibbles at the question: Why couldn't Trump get a GOP majority Congress to approve spending on his wall?

"Senate Republicans would not let him: They saw no point in the border wall and were unwilling to barter for it." from 7th paragraph of the piece above
dstieger Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
but that ignores the cloture minimum of 60 votes....there haven't been 60 R's in the Senate
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
They could have gotten some Dems on board if they offered something.
There's always a few Dems willing to trade their votes.

That's what compromise is about. Hell... If they offered to fix the ACA they probably could have gotten it
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
We have two parties for a reason.

The government works best when they are offering each other the best parts of the opposite sides plan as an incentive to vote for your own.
tailgater Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
can't recall the lib's saying he's a liar because he didn't build the wall.
doesn't even make sense.
you'd think they'd be joyful that he had failed to that point.

For a zillion other things, certainly, they called (and call) him a liar.


It was criticized as a campaign lie and failure.
By many of the same people who now criticize him for pulling out all the stops.

tailgater Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
anyway...

as a person who believes in language determining/defining/limiting thought and reality and not the other way around...
I'm finding it interesting that the "wall" word is being minimized in recent weeks.
I'm guessing on purpose... soft, subtle easing away.

I've noticed a shift toward the more widely accepted "border security"...



But Frank.
Haven't you heard?
Words matter.

You can't say "illegal immigrant"
It's undocumented worker.
Or the new one: Asylum seeker.

Words matter.

You can't use an accurate, albeit derogatory term when speaking of an impoverished and corrupt third world country.

Words matter.

Unless you're a newly elected official calling the President awful things.
In front of your young child.



frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
But Frank.
Haven't you heard?
Words matter.

You can't say "illegal immigrant"
It's undocumented worker.
Or the new one: Asylum seeker.

Words matter.

You can't use an accurate, albeit derogatory term when speaking of an impoverished and corrupt third world country.

Words matter.

Unless you're a newly elected official calling the President awful things.
In front of your young child.




I'm saying strongly that words matter. They shape reality, though many feel words get created to describe reality...they are incorrect.

Your examples are pretty good proof...we are agreeing, right?
frankj1 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
It was criticized as a campaign lie and failure.
By many of the same people who now criticize him for pulling out all the stops.


close, but off target just enough to have missed the real wall-related criticism for being a liar...

it wasn't because he promised a wall. the libs and many Congressional GOP types keep shooting that down (so far) much to the joy of libs (and many GOP types like you). That wasn't the lie that led to lib scorn.

It was the lie about Mexico paying for it. And the lie(s) about why it was needed.

Pulling out all the stops by holding government hostage or declaring a state of emergency for something most believe is foolish does not deserve praise.
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
frankie, if this was a tennis point, you just hit a well placed backhand winner cross court ...
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
The new phrase is 'irregular migration' btw.... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
give 'em prunes
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
See, that's why they want to come here... Not talking
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
good point.
give 'em that gubmint cheese you never got...that'll bind 'em up but good.
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
YA..!! I want my gubment cheese damnit..!! Mad
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I'm saying strongly that words matter. They shape reality, though many feel words get created to describe reality...they are incorrect.

Your examples are pretty good proof...we are agreeing, right?


Usually.
Not this time.

Sticks and stones will always apply.

tailgater Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
close, but off target just enough to have missed the real wall-related criticism for being a liar...

it wasn't because he promised a wall. the libs and many Congressional GOP types keep shooting that down (so far) much to the joy of libs (and many GOP types like you). That wasn't the lie that led to lib scorn.

It was the lie about Mexico paying for it. And the lie(s) about why it was needed.

Pulling out all the stops by holding government hostage or declaring a state of emergency for something most believe is foolish does not deserve praise.


The burden of the peso was a minor part of the original scorn.
It's now the crux of the matter.

The posturing is pathetic and it's got people salivating.
The SAME politicos who pushed in favor of a wall are now against it.
Why?
Trump.

Don't kid yourself otherwise.



edit:
I'm not suggesting that it's only the dems who do it.
Trump had two years of GOP majority and never pushed this hard.
I'm just laughing at the mainstream media and their minions.
Which brings us back to "funny".
delta1 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
why laugh at the messenger...they're just doing their jobs by reporting on the person who holds the most important job in our country... likely, the world...

it's the boss who's driving this story...he asked for the prime time Oval Office address and announced his visit to the border...he injected himself in the changing of the guard at the House, to make a statement to the press about his wall...he walked out of a meeting at the WH to tell the press he was pizzed at the Dems...by forcing the shutdown, he seems to be laser focused on this issue and wants the media to hone in on it...

think about what was happening before this focus occurred...imho, he was frightened of all the negative news stories about him, his foundation, his campaign and his campaign minions, his foreign policy decisions causing Mattis to quit, bad news about NK's nuclear activities...he wants to keep them from reporting on the Russia stuff, including the WH decision to drop sanctions on a Russian oligarch who was one of the guys indicted by Mueller, as the probe gets closer to the top, with some shady stuff being made public...

hmmmm...I see....as a Trump supporter ... I guess it would be funny that the media is so easily distracted from the real news by this sideshow...the town is burning but let's report on this baby crying...yeah...sadly you're right tail...funny...
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
I heard Pelosi kicked that Baby to make it cry... Mellow
Ewok126 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
DrafterX wrote:
I heard Pelosi kicked that Baby to make it cry... Mellow



I thought that was the baby that was the outcome of Elton John and David Furnish mixing their spooge together and pumped into a surrogate. Some one just jerked the passy out its ass and it started crying. Anxious
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Mellow
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Cry Baby Cry <------------BOSS ... bag of stupid stuff...butthead...
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi might want to confiscate someone’s selfie stick.


CNN’s Jim Acosta was mocked across social media on Thursday for posting a video that was meant to downplay President Trump's claims of a border crisis -- but ended up supporting his argument that border barriers improve security.


“Here are some of the steel slats that the president’s been talking about,” Acosta said while reporting from the southern border. “But as we’re walking along here, we’re not seeing any kind of imminent danger.”


The CNN reporter added, “There are no migrants trying to rush toward this fence.”

Film at 11... Mellow


No **** Jim... Steel slats work... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
why laugh at the messenger...they're just doing their jobs by reporting on the person who holds the most important job in our country... likely, the world...

it's the boss who's driving this story...he asked for the prime time Oval Office address and announced his visit to the border...he injected himself in the changing of the guard at the House, to make a statement to the press about his wall...he walked out of a meeting at the WH to tell the press he was pizzed at the Dems...by forcing the shutdown, he seems to be laser focused on this issue and wants the media to hone in on it...

think about what was happening before this focus occurred...imho, he was frightened of all the negative news stories about him, his foundation, his campaign and his campaign minions, his foreign policy decisions causing Mattis to quit, bad news about NK's nuclear activities...he wants to keep them from reporting on the Russia stuff, including the WH decision to drop sanctions on a Russian oligarch who was one of the guys indicted by Mueller, as the probe gets closer to the top, with some shady stuff being made public...

hmmmm...I see....as a Trump supporter ... I guess it would be funny that the media is so easily distracted from the real news by this sideshow...the town is burning but let's report on this baby crying...yeah...sadly you're right tail...funny...


Don't be so naive.
the media is just the messenger.
Nobody is making the liberal whine-brigade lap up the biased filth. They seem to do it willingly.


DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
But if they don't they won't get any free stuff... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
no biased filth for x
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya..!! Mad
dstieger Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Heard this piece on CSPAN the other day and it may not have been particularly earth shattering, but I did appreciate the later parts about the problem of opinion creep into the news part of the newspapers

"It is a tragedy that the media have become so divided. Today, there are Trump channels and anti-Trump channels. You want the anti-Trump, you turn to CNBC. The pro-Trump news, you turn to Fox. Walter Cronkites are no longer on the major television shows that are watched. Everyone trusted Walter Cronkite. I'm told Walter Cronkite did not even vote because he did not want partisanship to intrude on his objectivity. Today, we have silos. Not only on television, but in newspapers, as well. It's a terrible, terrible tragedy. We need a return to objective, neutral principles of law; of reporting. Look....Donald Trump causes many of these problems. His use of extreme language, his putting down of his opponents...he has helped to divide the country. He's responsible for a lot of that division. But, I would have thought some of the media would be above that and would at least report more neutrally and objectively. My wife and I have two televisions and we watched the state of the union and then the analysis of the speech afterward. It was as if we had seen two different speeches. You could not find out what was said (because of) the various media already interpreting. ...The New York Times today: the lead story was how Trump had caused the reduction in the stock market. maybe that is true, but that belongs on the opinion page and it is now called news analysis The New York Times now says News Analysis on the front page....it is simply an excuse for putting an editorial on the front page and the division between the editorial page and the news pages are becoming less sharp than they should be."
-Alan Deershowitz on CSPAN 26Dec18

https://www.c-span.org/video/?455905-4/washington-journal-alan-dershowitz-discusses-the-case-impeaching-trump&start=518


delta1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
a corollary to that observation is that neither side admits they are being fed biased news...we each point to the other side's obvious slants...

I miss Al Jazeera News...if you want to watch neutral stuff, tune in to BBC or PBS Newshour, listen to NPR or read Reuters or USA Today
dstieger Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I listen/read all of those...and probably more NPR (and CSPAN) than most others....but, as much as I hate to see it, NPR has increasingly left leaning journalists. I still listen to Morning Edition a couple times a week, but Inskeep pizzed me off so much that I've been writing the ombudsman to complain. He's not only one, but he's easily the worst. Many of their syndicated public radio programs are pretty bad, too. I like to think that I can filter well, but Inskeep has become the Pete Hegseth of the left...to me, anyway
tailgater Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
a corollary to that observation is that neither side admits they are being fed biased news...we each point to the other side's obvious slants...

I miss Al Jazeera News...if you want to watch neutral stuff, tune in to BBC or PBS Newshour, listen to NPR or read Reuters or USA Today


Neither side admits to the bias.

Both sides are biased.

One side has Foxnews.
The other side has virtually every other Television news source, plus virtually every major city newspaper, plus virtually every so-called news magazine.


But let's not split hairs.



Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>