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tailgater Offline
#101 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 11:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
What do you call a person wearing a swastika?


Vic,
Just so you know, because it doesn't appear that you do.

The Nazi's performed genocide on tens of millions of Jews.
Calling pro-life high school teenagers Nazis simply because their politics don't jibe with yours is not only a vile misrepresentation, it's also an insult to holocaust survivors and their families.
Because you're saying they're equal.

How f*cked up in the head do you have to be to even joke about that?

Or maybe you're a holocaust denier and you think it's just politics as usual so the comparison is fair game.

I don't want to tell you what you think. Even when you obviously don't.
Abrignac Offline
#102 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
victor809 wrote:
What do you call a person wearing a swastika?


Probably the same thing I would call a person wearing a Planned Parenthood shirt. They both show support for a movement responsible for millions of deaths.
victor809 Offline
#103 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hah... Anthony... That's at least an amusing answer.

Tail...if you read above, I identified it as the modern version of Nazis multiple times in this thread. I get tired of typing all that so I shortened it. Yes I know they aren't literal Nazis, literal Nazis were members of a specific political party with a specific name. They just share many of the views of the original Nazi party and have rebranded the republican party to fit them.

Have they killed the Jews yet? No. But their party is super popular with people who chant "Jews will not replace us".

Red maga hat wearing people... Not literal Nazis... But #1 with people who wish there was a literal Nazi party to join.
victor809 Offline
#104 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
An article this morning had a very interesting quote... I'll likely screw it up, but it was something to the extent of "symbols negate nuance".

If you wear a symbol of a group, you are announcing to the world your full throated support of that group and everything positive and negative that the group says and does. I would take it a step further and say AS well as everything people outside that group perceive it as doing.

A symbol doesn't allow you to say "I'm only wearing this because I support his stance on immigration, not because of his and his supporters position on blacks, muslims, women, LGBT, etc etc". You wear a symbol and you are all in.

I'm sure there were literal Nazis who wore swastikas because they supported Hitler's policy of making trains run on time, but weren't super excited about the killing Jews thing. Guess what we call them now? Nazis.
bgz Offline
#105 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Cap'n,

So if a certain subset of people are fans of someone, say the subset includes Ed Buck (yes, a subset can include just 1).

He's known to like to drug and kill black guys... Because he's a fan of Hillary and donated to her cause, does that imply Hillary likes to drug and kill black guys too?

And does that mean anyone who wore a Hillary for president shirt also likes to drug and kill black guys?

Trying to understand your logic here. Just sounds to me like you hate anyone that wears a MAGA hat and you're trying to justify it anyway possible.

I mean, many on this board say you're all Einstein like and stuff, so I'm just trying to get your logic.
dstieger Offline
#106 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
crazy when you consider that the hat was granted its power not by those who support Trump, but by those that hate him.
victor809 Offline
#107 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bgz... You understand a Venn diagram don't you?
Of the total number of people who support Clinton, what percentage makes up people who kill black guys? From both an actual, and a culturally perceived standpoint?

I ask a bit of intelligence here. You're not currently applying it.
victor809 Offline
#108 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dstieg... It doesn't have power. It has symbolism.
A swastika doesn't have power ... But we all have a cultural acknowledgement of what it symbolizes. Ironically despite it having a prior meaning.
bgz Offline
#109 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Well, I'm a programmer by trade, there's really no difference between a subset of 1, 100, 200, etc... a subset is a subset.

You call into question peoples intelligence often... I'll give you this, you appear to have obtained a lot of facts and certainly have a strong medical vocabulary, but I don't think you're as smart as you think you are.

So back to your Venn diagram thing... what percentage of people that own a Trump hat are nazis or nazi sympathizers, or actively want to kill Jews?

Is it statistically significant enough to warrant the claim that anyone who owns a Trump hat is a nazi?

Is 1% enough to warrant the claim? .05%? .00001%? Where's the cutoff?
delta1 Offline
#110 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
why are cons supporting the "children" who clearly engaged in public political speech in this circumstance, marching in support of the pro-life movement, then exchanging racist hate speech with racists...

...and yet cons were outraged by similar aged "children" who entered the political arena and publicly denounced the killing of their schoolmates?
ZRX1200 Offline
#111 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
Well planned parenthood abortions (last stats I saw) were around 70% African Americans so probably 90% of Hillary supporters approve of killing largely African American babies. Most definitely a larger number than MAGA hats that support killing Jews. Venn Fistula
bgz Offline
#112 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Venn Fistula... ROFL
delta1 Offline
#113 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:53 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
therein lies the crux...when is a baby a baby...
victor809 Offline
#114 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Venn diagram BJ...
More than just 2 circles. If one were to look at the subsets of all the various issues which everyone says trump isn't, but which he appears to be #1 with.. (ie... Everyone claims trump doesn't hate Muslims... But guess what, if a random citizen hates Muslims odds are he thinks trump is great) ... Draw a circle for every one of those .. show rough overlap where appropriate (ie, someone who hates Muslims may also hate gays, or may not, so the circle doesn't directly overlap but some percentage does)... In the end, see where all those various people overlap with someone who will want to wear a MAGA hat.

As I said in a previous post, symbolism negates nuance. A bright red maga hat doesn't give you the space to explain which of his policies you find most attractive. Whether it's a wall, or your desire to grab women by the *****, or your desire to have a Muslim travel ban, or your desire to chant "Jews will not replace us!" (Amazingly, this is the one point of view trump has NOT shown any alignment with, but he's still #1 with people who have it)...

And as I said before, I'm sure there were Nazis in Germany who really just liked how Hitler made the trains run on time. but we still call them Nazis.
victor809 Offline
#115 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Z... That's the dumbest "logical" leap anyone has ever made in the history of time.

If that's how you think, I seriously question how you can hold a job that requires deductive reasoning.

Granted, I don't know what job you do. But I hope for your coworkers sake it doesn't require actual thought.
victor809 Offline
#116 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And for the record, I don't actually believe a Venn diagram shows any real statistical data. I want to make that clear.

They are used to show relationships between groups, and additionally to show perceived relationships between groups...

I'll be the first to say that part of the maga hat problem is perception above reality... But that adds another layer to it, and doesn't absolve anyone. Understanding perception of something, and still doing it, is another layer of trolling. An example would be someone wearing a swastika because of its meaning in Buddhist and other religions prior to the nazi party. If you do that, you're just trolling people for attention and when you get negative attention, you deserve it.
DrafterX Offline
#117 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
victor809 wrote:
An article this morning had a very interesting quote... I'll likely screw it up, but it was something to the extent of "symbols negate nuance".

If you wear a symbol of a group, you are announcing to the world your full throated support of that group and everything positive and negative that the group says and does. I would take it a step further and say AS well as everything people outside that group perceive it as doing.

A symbol doesn't allow you to say "I'm only wearing this because I support his stance on immigration, not because of his and his supporters position on blacks, muslims, women, LGBT, etc etc". You wear a symbol and you are all in.

I'm sure there were literal Nazis who wore swastikas because they supported Hitler's policy of making trains run on time, but weren't super excited about the killing Jews thing. Guess what we call them now? Nazis.



Does this apply to certain t-shirts as well..?? Think
delta1 Offline
#118 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:18 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
or statues, flags, nooses, bananas, ape-like images and gestures...
bgz Offline
#119 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
So you pick a group of people who's Venn diagram who's biggest percentage hates anyone who's not Muslim... nice example dude.

If I remember right, you've defended that group of people who's arguably the most hateful subset of the entire population on the planet in a way similarly to the way I'm defending kids wearing a Trump hat. For the record, I don't own a Trump hat, nor do I go to Trump rallies are anything like that. I'm merely calling out your hypocrisy.

You're not helping your argument, because you're just picking and choosing subsets which you want to hate and making the claim that all others must also be in at least one subset of people you hate. You don't see the irony in that?

You certainly are sounding like a very hateful person. Basically you're saying you hate anyone that owns a Trump hat, or otherwise supports Trump by labeling all such people as Nazis.

That's exactly what you call out other people for on a regular basis.

You seem to be keen on defending the gay and black communities often, yet homophobia is prevalent among many black communities. Are you saying you hate blacks because a certain portion of their Venn diagram are homophobic?

Are you going to apply the same logic to the LGBQ people are are discriminatory towards others?

Again, I'm just trying to understand your logic... maybe you're just not presenting it well, but to me it sounds like a load of sh*t.
DrafterX Offline
#120 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
My gorilla mug from the SanDiego zoo is bad..?? Huh
RMAN4443 Offline
#121 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
No banana bread or banana pudding for X....Not talking

I heard they're gonna cancel the Planet of the Apes film festival this weekend too...Brick wall
victor809 Offline
#122 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Poor assumptions and leaps there bgz.

First, I've not defended the black Israelites at all.
Second, choosing a symbol says something about you. If I wore a Patriots jersey I would be saying something about myself. If I wore a Michael Vick jersey I would be choosing to say something different. If I wore a t-shirt that said "god hates f-gs" I would be saying something different about myself. Even a pink pu**y hat says something about you if you choose to wear it.

Being black or gay or whatever isn't a choice. So that isn't something you judge someone on. if a black or gay or whatever person chose to wear anything, I would judge them on what statement they want to make. We already do that.

Judging a race based on an overlap in a Venn diagram is ridiculous. Because that assumes that the race dictates their personal choices. That's no different than assuming all Chinese are good at math or other racist ideas. But if a black guy were wearing a maga hat, I would make the assumption he has bought in with the choices associated with a maga hat and that he's homophobic.
DrafterX Offline
#123 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
Poor CROS.. Sad
victor809 Offline
#124 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 2:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yeah... CROS wanted to wear a maga hat, but with no arms he couldn't put it on his head.


Poor guy....
bgz Offline
#125 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Well, you did use Venn diagrams to justify your position, I guess we can now throw that out and we're back to square one.

You hate anyone that wears a Trump hat because you hate Trump... that's all we're left with.

If I see someone in a Trump hat, I assume they are probably a republican. If I see a kid in a Trump hat, I assume that their parents are probably conservative. I don't assume that MAGA == swastika.

Just like I don't assume that anyone with a Bernie bumper sticker is a broke lowlife looking for handouts... is it true for a certain portion of Bernie supporters? Sure... but I'm not going assume that anyone sporting a Bernie sticker on their Prius is a loser.

Kids are growing up in a household who's parents are republicans are probably going to be republicans themselves (at least till they get out of the house on their own for a while).

So you're basically claiming that the kids are nazis for wearing Trump hats for something that's completely out of their control (their parents are republicans).

You can't justify it dude, you hate Trump and believe anyone who wears a Trump hat is a nazi or a homophobic p*ssy grabber...

It's ok, I don't fault you for it, you're only human.
victor809 Offline
#126 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Nothing I said is a reason to throw a Venn diagram out.
Perception is important when interacting with other people in the world. Perception is also something every human is aware of and makes choices accordingly.

Every "republican" knows what perception of trump is. They whine about the "fake news" regarding him constantly. If you're going to wear symbols of his campaign, implicitly signing on with both his actual actions and public perception of his actions (again, no nuance in symbols) then you either really support those ideas or you're trolling for effect. And no. Don't tell me a teen is a republican because of their parents. There is evidence that these kids were espousing some of the ideals of the maga hat prior to their conflict with the religious hate group. But even if they are... That doesn't forgive them. One doesn't forgive the westborough religious nutjob teens for what they wear, just because that's what their parents wear. And I'm pretty sure we've excoriated black teens for their choice of clothing as it's related to their getting shot by cops or other issues.

These modern day American equivalent of Nazi youth (there that's the long form, replace that any time you see Nazi in my writing) made choices and no adults in the group thought to help them navigate what their choices would result in.

And yes. Any time I see a person openly wearing a maga cap I make assumptions (I honestly admit it) that they are choosing to wear that cap to ensure the public knows their support of any one or more of the many negative things trump likes to say at his rallies (whether it's anti LGBT, anti Muslims, anti Mexican, anti black, pro ***** grabbing, pro "blood dripping out of her wherever" etc etc).

The maga hat is unique in political symbols because the group that flaunts it doubles down on any negative images associated with it. The worse trump acts at his rallies, the more they cheer. You won't really find that in any other symbols other than maybe hammer and sickle, or che images.
victor809 Offline
#127 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 3:52 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I mean seriously...
How often when you see images of someone wearing a maga hat are they doing something positive? How many are negative?

I've seen a couple people in the wild wearing maga hats, doing nothing positive or negative. But usually they're angry, screaming something negative about some religious, sexual, gender or racial group. They're screaming"lock her up", incidentally a violation of rights.

It doesn't help that trump encourages this at his rallies, and people usually wear this crap at rallies. But guess what... Perception is important. When they wear that crap outside of a rally, they're telling the world they support all the crap yelled at those rallies.
DrafterX Offline
#128 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
How about that classroom full of black kids pledging to and hailing Obama with their right arms straight up years ago.... Think
victor809 Offline
#129 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Does Obama have a record of yelling/demanding racist homophobic sexist or anti Muslims/any other religious crap at rallies or in speeches or on Twitter?
DrafterX Offline
#130 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,536
What difference does that make... Those kids were Obama Nazis... Mellow
bgz Offline
#131 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
You know, I live in a somewhat red state, and I can't recall if I ever ran into a MAGA hat in the wild... so I really wouldn't know how die hard trumpists behave outside of a rally.

But you've made your position clear. Discrimination comes in many forms.
tailgater Offline
#132 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:03 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
An article this morning had a very interesting quote... I'll likely screw it up, but it was something to the extent of "symbols negate nuance".

If you wear a symbol of a group, you are announcing to the world your full throated support of that group and everything positive and negative that the group says and does. I would take it a step further and say AS well as everything people outside that group perceive it as doing.

A symbol doesn't allow you to say "I'm only wearing this because I support his stance on immigration, not because of his and his supporters position on blacks, muslims, women, LGBT, etc etc". You wear a symbol and you are all in.

I'm sure there were literal Nazis who wore swastikas because they supported Hitler's policy of making trains run on time, but weren't super excited about the killing Jews thing. Guess what we call them now? Nazis.


So if you wear a rainbow shirt it means you take it up the azz and want to cut off your wee wee and make it a hoo haw?

Interesting.
tailgater Offline
#133 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
crazy when you consider that the hat was granted its power not by those who support Trump, but by those that hate him.


Well stated, sir.
tailgater Offline
#134 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
why are cons supporting the "children" who clearly engaged in public political speech in this circumstance, marching in support of the pro-life movement, then exchanging racist hate speech with racists...

...and yet cons were outraged by similar aged "children" who entered the political arena and publicly denounced the killing of their schoolmates?


I saw that WEAK comparison.

The main stream media thanks you for its support.
tailgater Offline
#135 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


As I said in a previous post, symbolism negates nuance. A bright red maga hat doesn't give you the space to explain which of his policies you find most attractive. Whether it's a wall, or your desire to grab women by the *****, or your desire to have a Muslim travel ban, or your desire to chant "Jews will not replace us!" (Amazingly, this is the one point of view trump has NOT shown any alignment with, but he's still #1 with people who have it)...

And as I said before, I'm sure there were Nazis in Germany who really just liked how Hitler made the trains run on time. but we still call them Nazis.


Which policy, specifically, is related to grabbing women by their nether region? Maybe it was originally a Clinton "policy"? Or Kennedy?



You're throwing everything out there that the MEDIA has trained you to say. You're hoping something will stick. related or not, it's a media driven talking point against the Donald.

We don't have to agree on politics, but your counterpoints are complete nonsense.

In between calling other people stupid, you've managed to call into question your own IQ.

So there's that.
tailgater Offline
#136 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:14 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Z... That's the dumbest "logical" leap anyone has ever made in the history of time.

If that's how you think, I seriously question how you can hold a job that requires deductive reasoning.

Granted, I don't know what job you do. But I hope for your coworkers sake it doesn't require actual thought.


Sounds like Vic is sending out his resume...
victor809 Offline
#137 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Tail, thank you for agreeing with me.
I bet if I wore a rainbow shirt in MO people would assume that I'm gay.

If I threw a fit about people doing that (which I wouldn't) you'd probably tell me that they were only making a logical conclusion based on my clothing.

If I put a rainbow flag on my front door, the first assumption is that I'm gay. If that one proves to be incorrect, the follow up is to assume I support the cause of LGBT groups and all that entails. No one asks for my nuanced thoughts on The Gay Agenda. They would assume I support the entirety of it.

That's how symbols work.
tailgater Offline
#138 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


I'll be the first to say that part of the maga hat problem is perception above reality... But that adds another layer to it, and doesn't absolve anyone. Understanding perception of something, and still doing it, is another layer of trolling. .


That's blaming the group for the generalization.
It's also called bigotry.

It's the "excuse" racists use to hate certain groups of people.

And you're trying to excuse it away.
tailgater Offline
#139 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Tail, thank you for agreeing with me.
I bet if I wore a rainbow shirt in MO people would assume that I'm gay.

If I threw a fit about people doing that (which I wouldn't) you'd probably tell me that they were only making a logical conclusion based on my clothing.

If I put a rainbow flag on my front door, the first assumption is that I'm gay. If that one proves to be incorrect, the follow up is to assume I support the cause of LGBT groups and all that entails. No one asks for my nuanced thoughts on The Gay Agenda. They would assume I support the entirety of it.

That's how symbols work.


I'm not from MO. In my neighborhood the rainbow bumper sticker doesn't garner a second glance.

But I chose the Rainbow symbol because it's not just about gay.
You're suggesting that waiving the flag means you want to chop it off, because some of the meaning is about transgender.

The Hat is a sign of support for our President.
You can't believe it, but some really do want to "make America great again". And it's corny as hell and just a tag line, I know. But the media driven backlash makes even a lazy supporter want to wear it.

victor809 Offline
#140 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bgz... I saw a dude at comicon wearing one. And I saw a dude wearing one somewhere else I can't recall. They acted perfectly fine. But those are the only 2 instances I've seen one worn that don't involve screaming at rallies about whatever the trumpenfeurher is telling them to scream about.

2 instances of normal behavior vs .... What seems like hundreds of rallies full of people. This is how perception is built.

If someone wants to really think about it, rather than be tail and blindly argue against whatever he thinks the "mainstream media" is saying, one should consider Christianity. I don't like religions, but even my dislike of religion does not cause me to assume the worst about someone just because they're wearing a cross. Despite numerous historical incidents where Christianity was on the wrong side, and even current events where people do terrible things in the name of Christianity, they have managed to also have enough positive coverage, where the images and symbols are not immediately assumed to be paired with terrible views.

I'm not trying to defend religion, but I'm trying to show a contrast where a symbol can be worn by sufficient number of people who one might consider good, such that you don't automatically assume anyone wearing it is a douche canoe.
victor809 Offline
#141 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Even the saying on the hat is terrible. Can you define the specific date we're trying to go back to with "again"? You won't. Because there isn't a time in history that "again" could possibly refer to when we didn't s**t on some group.

Support of the president? I know. It's supporting a person who has said and done really terrible things. It is support of what he says and does. It is support of everything he writes on his Twitter feed. Everything.

I don't know why you keep proving my point.

And no tail, I dont believe a rainbow flag means you want your junk cut off. Just as I don't believe every Nazi youth wants to kill the blacks Jews and homosexuals or rape the women. It's support of the cause of killing the blacks and Jews and homosexuals and raping the women. Just as a rainbow flag means you support someone getting their tallywhacker chopped off if they want to.

Guess what... Some people may have more nuanced thoughts than what you assume when seeing a rainbow flag. But you assume they don't because a symbol is just a symbol and does not allow for nuance. That's fine with something that's reasonably benign... I don't mind if people make assumptions about my support for LGBT while not taking into account my nuanced ideas. But it becomes more problematic if you are dealing with someone who has some very problematic views and statements.
tailgater Offline
#142 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:33 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Bgz... I saw a dude at comicon wearing one. And I saw a dude wearing one somewhere else I can't recall. They acted perfectly fine. But those are the only 2 instances I've seen one worn that don't involve screaming at rallies about whatever the trumpenfeurher is telling them to scream about.

2 instances of normal behavior vs .... What seems like hundreds of rallies full of people. This is how perception is built.

If someone wants to really think about it, rather than be tail and blindly argue against whatever he thinks the "mainstream media" is saying, one should consider Christianity. I don't like religions, but even my dislike of religion does not cause me to assume the worst about someone just because they're wearing a cross. Despite numerous historical incidents where Christianity was on the wrong side, and even current events where people do terrible things in the name of Christianity, they have managed to also have enough positive coverage, where the images and symbols are not immediately assumed to be paired with terrible views.

I'm not trying to defend religion, but I'm trying to show a contrast where a symbol can be worn by sufficient number of people who one might consider good, such that you don't automatically assume anyone wearing it is a douche canoe.


No need to put mainstream media in quotes.

Otherwise, great post.
victor809 Offline
#143 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Seriously tail... You're gonna call that bigotry?

The "group" is self selecting. You aren't being generalized against until you've made specific actions.

You know who else I generalize against? People who choose to wear klan outfits. I generalize them... Does that make me a bigot?

I also generalize against people who wear swastikas.

These are self selecting groups. You don't get generalized against unless you've made a decision.

I generalize against people who wear "free moustache rides" and people who wear those obnoxious "no fear" or other overly masculinized t-shirts at the gym.

Similarly,I also generalize people who like to try to compare generalizations against those who make active choices with generalizations against those who are born with a specific sexuality, gender or race. So yes tail... I'm bigoted against you.
delta1 Offline
#144 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
tailgater wrote:
I saw that WEAK comparison.

The main stream media thanks you for its support.




fake news...you have consistently said you do not watch main stream media...
tailgater Offline
#145 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:47 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


And no tail, I dont believe a rainbow flag means you want your junk cut off. Just as I don't believe every Nazi youth wants to kill the blacks Jews and homosexuals or rape the women. It's support of the cause of killing the blacks and Jews and homosexuals and raping the women. Just as a rainbow flag means you support someone getting their tallywhacker chopped off if they want to.

Guess what... Some people may have more nuanced thoughts than what you assume when seeing a rainbow flag. But you assume they don't because a symbol is just a symbol and does not allow for nuance. That's fine with something that's reasonably benign... I don't mind if people make assumptions about my support for LGBT while not taking into account my nuanced ideas. But it becomes more problematic if you are dealing with someone who has some very problematic views and statements.


This is the exact opposite of what I said.
It's not MY nuanced thought.
Unlike you, I don't define someone by a mere symbol.

Rainbow? Good on you.
MAGA hat? Likewise.

You can't turn this on me. I'm not the one with bigoted viewpoints based on mainstream symbols. And no, a swastika is not mainstream.
tailgater Offline
#146 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
fake news...you have consistently said you do not watch main stream media...


I have two social media platforms.
Here.
And Facebook.

Facebook doesn't only tell us to vote for Trump. It also allows my cousins and friends and family to forward stuff.
Some of it is worthy of opening the page, and I saw a bit of the TV interview with the creepy staring kid, and I saw the attempt to compare him and the public outcry with that of the florida survivors.
It was weak.
So much so, that if it were not offered up as a comparison then no sane minded person would even contemplate it. Hence my comment.


victor809 Offline
#147 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... um... You sure about that? I mean... Trump rallies....

Are you the one who gets to determine what's "mainstream"?

Are the other Aryan nation symbols mainstream enough for you? Because those pop up at every rally.
victor809 Offline
#148 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Well.... I think we found our problem.

Tail thinks crap forwarded to him on Facebook is "mainstream news"
delta1 Offline
#149 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:55 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
tail, a contrast is NOT a comparison...
victor809 Offline
#150 Posted: Thu, Jan 24 2019, 5:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I would hate mainstream news too if I thought the crap coming through Facebook was that.

General policy.
Never click on an article someone posted on Facebook. Never.
Never click on a YouTube link someone posts here. Never.
When someone posts an article here, don't follow the link. Type in the keywords and see what pops up.
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