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House Ways and Means Chairman Subpoenas Trump Tax Returns
tailgater Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Just in case anyone thought TDS was beginning to wane in the wake of no collusion.

Welcome to 2019's birther movement.

I spelled "bowel" wrong.




delta1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
welcome...glad you came...
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
who said no collusion?
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Well you gotta yell the sky is falling when a weaponized counterintelligence plan is getting exposed.
Gene363 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
Some call it a diversion, but applying democrat logic, it’s obstruction of justice.
Speyside Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Joe, I don't think this is TDS, I think it is part of Democratic strategy to win the next election. IMO this actually helps Trump, much of the voting public is tired of this, I know I am. Just my 2 cents.
Gene363 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,814
Speyside wrote:
Joe, I don't think this is TDS, I think it is part of Democratic strategy to win the next election. IMO this actually helps Trump, much of the voting public is tired of this, I know I am. Just my 2 cents.


You’re correct, but at the root it’s TDS.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Funny how you can be convinced it's something that's literally a made up fake thing.
victor809 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
...and by funny I mean tail and gene are idiots....
tailgater Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I love how vic's panties get in a bunch over anything Trump.

tailgater Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
Joe, I don't think this is TDS, I think it is part of Democratic strategy to win the next election. IMO this actually helps Trump, much of the voting public is tired of this, I know I am. Just my 2 cents.


I hear what you're saying, but I have a feeling in my ample gut that they'd be chasing him even if he weren't up for reelection. They don't exist unless they're attacking him for anything. Heck, for everything.
The public IS tired of it, yet it's still headlines even when other, more worthy news is taking place.
It's part of the media driven frenzy that provides the legitimacy to these lunatics.

It's a tax return.
I think he should reveal them.
But to use a subpoena?
How can that NOT be a real mental illness?
Speyside Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The problem I have with demanding he reveal his taxes is that there is no legal basis for this that I am aware of. There is a historical basis, but it is a voluntary one. Also, as far as I know there is no evidence of financial criminality, so again, no legal basis for this line of inquiry. I strongly dislike Trump, but dam it, he deserves the full benefit of the law. Just like we all do.
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
well (I assure you I am very calm) in light of news we are all now learning (but was likely known for a while by Congressional Committees/Courts/Mueller) Trump reported yuuuuggge losses in the 80's and 90's...and who knows how many more years.

If he underestimated the value of his property holdings to avoid taxes while overestimating the same to get loans, he could be guilty of tax and/or bank fraud. Maybe insurance fraud as well. Serious stuff for any citizen, worse for a President.

There is also the question of where the money came from to pay loans, and the fact(?) that he has not divested himself from his holdings after taking office is another yuuuuggge question of from where his income came/comes...and the very real possibility that foreign sources (you know who) kept him afloat and to whom he would be indebted. This presents a myriad of potentially illegal situations and might make it easy to understand why he does not want his tax documents released.

Flynn was put in a situation of potential compromise dangerous to the U.S.due to income he hid that came from those same sources

I said potential regarding Trump. We won't know without his financial documents. If we could possibly remove our passions for or against any President in this situation, we should all want clarity.
Abrignac Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
I think it is yuuuuuuge mistake to issue a subpoena for is tax return. There are many problems. For one it’s a slippery slope. Congress’s job is to legislate. Yet, they have an insatiable appetite for investigation. Second, such an attempt is an obvious seizure of potential evidence. Absent a warrant, its use in a criminal court is questionable (ie the 4th amendment). Also, if Congress can subpoena his tax returns, then shouldn’t he have the same ability to subpoena the returns of all members of Congress.

Do we really want to weaponize the IRS?
tailgater Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
. We won't know without his financial documents. .



We won't know if Trump colluded with Russia to win the election unless we have an investigation.

Oops.

Fine.

then we won't know if he's guilty unless we see his tax returns.

The next "reveal" will never be enough.

There will be more.

The left wing media has decided it.

So let it be written.
So let it be done.




tailgater Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Abrignac wrote:


Do we really want to weaponize the IRS?


Obama already did that.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Abrignac wrote:
I think it is yuuuuuuge mistake to issue a subpoena for is tax return. There are many problems. For one it’s a slippery slope. Congress’s job is to legislate. Yet, they have an insatiable appetite for investigation. Second, such an attempt is an obvious seizure of potential evidence. Absent a warrant, its use in a criminal court is questionable (ie the 4th amendment). Also, if Congress can subpoena his tax returns, then shouldn’t he have the same ability to subpoena the returns of all members of Congress.

Do we really want to weaponize the IRS?

so unmentioned is the duty of oversight of the executive branch by the legislative branch. it's something you may want in other times.

Also, that it is clear that the tax records of ANY citizen may be requested.

This has nothing to do with empowering the IRS. They are being directed to produce a citizen's returns.

If one could look at the situation without considering if they like what any sitting president is doing while in office, this would not be questioned. Certainly not the legality of it.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
We won't know if Trump colluded with Russia to win the election unless we have an investigation.

Oops.

Fine.

then we won't know if he's guilty unless we see his tax returns.

The next "reveal" will never be enough.

There will be more.

The left wing media has decided it.

So let it be written.
So let it be done.





to me this is the real TDS
Whistlebritches Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
tailgater wrote:
Just in case anyone thought TDS was beginning to wane in the wake of no collusion.

Welcome to 2019's birther movement.

I spelled "bowel" wrong.






This isn't going anywhere.......Didn't they subpeona Obama's birth certificate?
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
my father had the wisdom to teach me that I should hope to not get everything I wanted (politically) cuz then I'd be supporting a dictatorship.
DrafterX Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Frank said dic.. Laugh
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Abrignac wrote:
I think it is yuuuuuuge mistake to issue a subpoena for is tax return. There are many problems. For one it’s a slippery slope. Congress’s job is to legislate. Yet, they have an insatiable appetite for investigation. Second, such an attempt is an obvious seizure of potential evidence. Absent a warrant, its use in a criminal court is questionable (ie the 4th amendment). Also, if Congress can subpoena his tax returns, then shouldn’t he have the same ability to subpoena the returns of all members of Congress.

Do we really want to weaponize the IRS?

I believe the court case in NY is going to be successful in securing his state returns. It is about to become legit evidence...which is still a long ride to guilt.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
DrafterX wrote:
Frank said dic.. Laugh

say it loud, say it proud!
Speyside Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So says the tripod.
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I wrote it in the snow.
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Just mud here... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
not conducive to dic writing
DrafterX Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Unless you're clam digging.. Mellow
CelticBomber Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
I hear what you're saying, but I have a feeling in my ample gut that they'd be chasing him even if he weren't up for reelection. They don't exist unless they're attacking him for anything. Heck, for everything.
The public IS tired of it, yet it's still headlines even when other, more worthy news is taking place.
It's part of the media driven frenzy that provides the legitimacy to these lunatics.

It's a tax return.
I think he should reveal them.
But to use a subpoena?
How can that NOT be a real mental illness?



Are you functionally retarded or is someone typing for you? (You really shouldn't talk about mental illness in reference to a legal subpoena it just opens you up to things like my first sentence:-)) Compared to Trump Nixon was a Saint. This guy would be an evil genius except for the fact that he can't keep his fat mouth shut and their was one other thing... What was it again? Oh yeah, he's a moron. No collusion? He's a (cough) Republican so he can do no wrong. This guy was elected for the worst reasons and only because the Dems and a moronic dem public put up Hillary yelling yay finally a woman, and gave this moron the election.

It's a tax return? That's it? How much is he making every time he goes Golfing at his own club? Forget the HUGE security problems this created. Forget that the SS agents are working for free because they can't get a budget increase to cover the huge costs of protecting this guy because he won't take any advice. I bet Mar-a-lago's invoices are being paid promptly. Remember what Trump said about Obama never working and always golfing? Or his once in a life time real estate deal with the Russians? This is just pocket change stuff and the list is long and distinguished like my Johnson. How's that wall Mexico paid for coming along. Every time he said that hordes of Republicans creamed their pants. Cleaning up after one of those rallies must have been like mopping the floor of a peep both. How soon after the election was that call released of him begging the Mexican President for something, anything to give to his backers?

How about that awesome tax cut that was going to save the middle class. I wonder how much money he made from that? Remember how it was going to encourage companies to hire and not be used to do stock buy backs instead or be used to pay out record bonuses. The middle class and the poor got HAMMERED this April. No collusion? How many other Presidential election teams through the years regularly met with other hostile foreign governments to talk about (cough) adoptions. I don't even need to ramble like a madman on this one. Just go read your guys own tweets. Collusion and Obstruction charges are coming. You think Mueller is stupid? AG Barr (or as I like to call him Officer Barbrady) redacts the report, claiming nothing to see here and he was right.... Nothing to see here because it was redacted. Six Republicans have seen the full unredacted report no Democrats. If you think Trump is not still having nightmares about Mueller you'd be wrong. Once Mueller leaves the DOJ he can legally talk about ALL of it. He won't though until Trump is out of office because the last thing this country needs is a circus around the criminal trial of a sitting President and Mueller cares more about the country than being a partisan shill. It's that old saying, argue about the direction of the ship all you want, only a fool tries to chop a hole in the bottom to sink the whole thing. Mueller is just biding his time. The one guy following the Constitution and laws of the land and he's the one our oh so informed and educated public are calling un-American and the leader of a witch hunt. The one thing everyone forgets is Mueller is a REPUBLICAN. Kenneth Starr investigated a President getting head, took four years, went WAY beyond the scope of the investigation (He was supposed to be investigating Whitewater and the Paula Jones accusation of sexual assault) but because as special council he could subpoena anyone he came out with a perjury charge and Clinton impeached(rightly so if for the wrong reasons) and he was hailed an American Hero. Even though everyone agrees he acted unethically and in some instances illegally. Everyone got to read every word of that report. Without a subpoena.

Trumps own party has had to dog pile him to save him from himself more than once. Staffers IGNORE him to save him from himself. Half his family is "working" in the offices next door and they can't get enough clearance to use the water cooler. But, they control the trust in charge of Trumps businesses and I'm sure they're following the law in reporting only the most basic info. The one saving grace in all of this mess is that nothing is really getting done because Trump won't even listen to his own Democratic, I'm sorry, I mean life long buddies in the Republican party. But, what he has been able to do will take years to fix and years before the true impact is felt. He'll been dead by then with his last words being "Freaking Obama and Hillary! I had the number one rated reality show on TV why don't people love meeeeee? (Croak). I'm sure the situation room is a hoot on Friday nights as he plays his weekly card game with the three people he respects most in this world. Putin, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping. What do you think his most famous quote will be as President? Wow this President stuff is a lot harder than I thought will be my vote.

BTW How many people working with this guy are in jail already? I'm sure someone is counting. The harder republicans back this guy means the worst of the Democrats will rise to the top in answer and we all know the general Democratic public is just as educated and well informed as the Republicans.... Yeah this will end well.

At every turn this President and administration has refused to cooperate and ignored the law and subpoena after subpoena and it's Mental Illness to use a subpoena now? Seriously? Jr is in India discussing foreign policy and trying to sell real estate. He's building a base and it's almost a certainty he will run for office. Depending on Mueller of course.

Comrade Celtic (just testing it out to see how it sounds when the Dems answer to Trump gets in)

It's a tax return...... Words that will echo down through the annuals of history that no one will be able to keep a straight face when repeating.
rfenst Online
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Good morning.
tailgater Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
to me this is the real TDS


We do have fun, you and I, don't we?

tailgater Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
celticbomber hates Trump so he thinks it's OK to subpoena him for anything the democrats want.

With one investigation still smoldering in its foul stench of injustice, celticbomber wants to attack trump by whatever means the MSM and hateful democrat politicos say.

Pathetic.
You, sir, are today's equivalent to the whack job birthers.
But likely with poorer hygiene.

And any potentially valid points you may have made in your manifesto above will surely get lost in the dripping hatred that has enveloped you.

Happy mother's day, comrade.




CelticBomber Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
celticbomber hates Trump so he thinks it's OK to subpoena him for anything the democrats want.

With one investigation still smoldering in its foul stench of injustice, celticbomber wants to attack trump by whatever means the MSM and hateful democrat politicos say.

Pathetic.
You, sir, are today's equivalent to the whack job birthers.
But likely with poorer hygiene.

And any potentially valid points you may have made in your manifesto above will surely get lost in the dripping hatred that has enveloped you.

Happy mother's day, comrade.







today's equivalent to the whack job birthers

wait.... Wasn't Trump...... Nah forget it, low hanging fruit. The equivalent of teasing a kid on a short bus wearing a hockey helmet...... Who am I kidding Hahaha hahaha You mean a whack job birther like Trump? Hahaha Bwahahaha omg I got tears I'm laughing so hard. Below was my original more umm polite response. Holy hell I needed that.

lol you really don't know how you just made my day... And point:-) Make sure to kiss him on the forehead when you tuck Daddy Trump in. Check under the bed and the closets too, might be scary lawyers there. Wow!
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I may be misremembering.... But wasn't tail on that whole "we need to see his long form birth certificate" train for a long while?

Amusing that he'd call them whack job birthers.... (Not to mention the low hanging fruit Celtic pointed out)
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
We do have fun, you and I, don't we?


abso-gallooly!
delta1 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
giggity...same people who are outraged at endless investigations of POTUS Trump were urging Starr to keep digging...

difference here with Trump is that there is substantial probable cause ...many "blue dresses" hanging out in plain view....
dstieger Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Speyside wrote:
The problem I have with demanding he reveal his taxes is that there is no legal basis for this that I am aware of. There is a historical basis, but it is a voluntary one. Also, as far as I know there is no evidence of financial criminality, so again, no legal basis for this line of inquiry. I strongly dislike Trump, but dam it, he deserves the full benefit of the law. Just like we all do.


Agree.

The dumb azz excuses about audits that began before the election didn't do him any favors.
He should have just said 'Show the me the law requiring me to give them up' and never said another word.
Everything else is noise. Dems wanna see them before November 3, 2020, then pass a law....otherwise, move on
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
Agree.

The dumb azz excuses about audits that began before the election didn't do him any favors.
He should have just said 'Show the me the law requiring me to give them up' and never said another word.
Everything else is noise. Dems wanna see them before November 3, 2020, then pass a law....otherwise, move on



Agreed and that is something I don't get how his supporters stand behind.

He will act like a bad arse and say one thing then continually morph to something else and his supporters act like that's what he mean't/said all along. He never intended to release them. Just say so and fight.

Puerto Rico got 91B in relief. No they didn't. Use the real number (maybe 20% of that) and admit you don't think they deserve more.

Tariffs are Taxes. Americans pay them. Don't pretend they aren't. Just say they are necessary and that my supporters know they need to do their part to break this trade balance and my non-supporters should to. By the way have you priced appliances lately. I know the recent round are not in place yet but as their are going up up up up in the words of Mick Jaggar.

Example after example. Many more. I'm not saying it's unusual (although to this level it probably is), but why pretend something different (good) is going on.

Pretend your used Honda is a Ferrari if you want. It's not.
dstieger Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
By the way have you priced appliances lately.



Nope....but was about to. F'n fridge/freezer is only six years old and the pos is begging to be replaced.
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just replaced washing machine. Price went up 70 bucks from when I started looking to last week. Nothing to do with the latest round, but does have to do with the last. I contributed my extra taxes. it's like a gas tax.

I'm still mad because I paid more total taxes as well as the amount I owed this year. The itemized deduction revisions, specifically the state cap killed me.

Thanks Obama!
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
Just replaced washing machine. Price went up 70 bucks from when I started looking to last week. Nothing to do with the latest round, but does have to do with the last. I contributed my extra taxes. it's like a gas tax.

I'm still mad because I paid more total taxes as well as the amount I owed this year. The itemized deduction revisions, specifically the state cap killed me.

Thanks Obama!

and dryers went up even though they weren't included!

aside note on fridge life...

most of us are used to 20 to 40 year lifespans on refrigerators. About 18 years ago I bought an Amana (though not really them anymore) freezer on the bottom fridge. Crapped out after 6 years. Dealer said out of warranty, sorry, but typically they only last 8 years or so these days, not like the good old products. Remember I only got to year 6!

I went to war, called upon our relationship, the many products I had bought over the years etc...so they pushed hard against whoever Amana now was (Maytag or someone) and got a new compressor, plus installed it...no charge.

The technician said (off the record) that in his recent experience, aftermarket parts were far superior to the original equipment...fast forward to today, I am in year 12 of a quiet, trouble free repaired fridge.

Thanks Obama (OK, that was self indulgent, sorry).
delta1 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
Our Samsung washer just gave up the ghost after 9 years...the paired up dryer was starting to fail, too...

previous set was a Maytag washer and dryer that lasted 18 years and were still working fine, though a little noisier than when new....when we remodeled the house and moved the washer dryer into the house from the garage, my wife wanted a front loading washer instead of the Maytag top-loader.............

hope our new LG set lasts as long as the Maytag...if so, they'll be the last washer dryer we'll buy because we prolly won't outlive them...
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Speedqueen washer.
and the lowest tech one available.
should last 25 years.
rfenst Online
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Washington (CNN)"A federal judge in Washington cast doubt on Tuesday that the courts could limit Congress' ability to investigate President Donald Trump, in the first major hearing over congressional subpoenas for Trump's financial records.
...

Judge Amit Mehta of the US District Court for the District of Columbia began the session by highlighting just how unusual it would be for the federal court to narrow a congressional inquiry and how problematic for him to rule in a way that predicted future legislation.
...

"Shouldn't I be presuming in this case that what Congress is doing is constitutional?" Mehta said as he questioned Trump's side. Considering what Congress could do with what information it gathers "frankly strikes me as opinion-driven judicial decision making," he said.
...

The case weighs the extent of Congress' authority and the personal privacy claims of the President in a court system that's generally refrained from infringing on congressional investigations, including subpoenas....
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
butt, Trump is the King/dictator who can rule by fiat...
frankj1 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
had no oversight for two years so any now feels like too much.
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
But if he decides its not necessary its all good. We all would have accepted that from Obama, or Bush or Clinton. This is no different.
frankj1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
But if he decides its not necessary its all good. We all would have accepted that from Obama, or Bush or Clinton. This is no different.

taking a guess here, but it feels as though Congress's for them did take that part of their responsibility seriously, even too seriously sometimes.

It happens. Tough job.
delta1 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
seems some people don't mind DICTators as long as they belong to their party...
Abrignac Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
Dumb question, but doesn’t the law enforcement and detention fall under the realm of the executive branch. Congress has no means to force the IRS to turn them over. Once, he’s out of office it’s a different story. But, by then the political winds will be blowing in a different direction. So at the end of the day, it’s grandstanding.
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