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Last post 4 years ago by teedubbya. 156 replies replies.
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Just which country does he think he's the president of?
victor809 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
opelmanta1900 wrote:
You'd have to know next to nothing about either religion to make a statement like the one you just have...

yeah that old testament definitely never tells anyone to kill others.... (insert eyeroll emoji here)
Mr. Jones Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
😁😁😁
πŸ˜‹πŸ˜‹πŸ˜‹πŸ˜‹πŸ˜‹πŸ˜‹
TruMp SeCreT mEssaGe

Mr. Jones Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,359
The orange Mussolini can decode ALL My sTUFf
delta1 Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Disagree... It's for sure Greenland... I'm guessing within hours he'll be declaring that Greenland is now part of America, the deal is as good as done, he's president of Greenland...


knock off the thread jacking religion talk...this is about which country Trump wants to be boss of...

Greenland isn't even a country, opel...but I'd be OK with telling Trump to go there and run it, then he can come back and tell us how he did...
delta1 Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
Mr. Jones wrote:
The orange Mussolini can decode ALL My sTUFf


orange Mussolini???.....hmmmmmm.......never see them two together..........hmmmmmmmmm
frankj1 Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
still sorting out many factors for myself on a few levels, but ignoring any specific knowledge beyond headlines/summaries, my first reaction is as an American and that is to agree with Schumer, Nadler, and the "influential" American Israel Public Affairs Committee in saying Israel has made a mistake...for whatever reason or under pressure. All members of Congress should be allowed entrance into our ally.

my next reaction is that not long ago Israel enacted a law or rule(?) to refuse entrance to people/organizations that support BDS, and others that call for international Boycott Divestment and Sanctions against Israel...which may not be unreasonable. Others not in the government have been turned away, so this is not a special case.

Yet Netanyahu did say if a humanitarian request to visit family (Tliab has relatives) in the West Bank it would be considered if "she pledged not to promote boycotts against Israel".

not sure if the next point is a tie breaker for me because I am always disturbed by the amazingly high level of scrutiny and criticism we place on Israel to which no other country on Earth is subjected... but this trip is privately funded, not official U.S. Government business, meaning there is an agenda and a debt due to those bankrolling this visit.

I may not reach a conclusion, but I also think Israel does not care what I think.
Speyside Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Didn't know about that rule/law. Thanks Frank. Israel does what it must to survive. To me it is logical that they do whatever they can to stay in our governments good graces. Logic would dictate that they would placate the president. It seems to me that Israel did not make a mistake, rather a miscalculation. They seem to be between a rock and a hard place most of the time. Certainly the president and the senate as a whole likely think positively about Israel's action. On the other hand the house of representatives as a whole likely think negatively about Israel's action. So when is a tweet just a tweet and when is a tweet a message? Hard to tell. To much is read into Trumps tweets. The orange idiot tweets way to much with no filter. In this regard, so what, he is who he is.
DrafterX Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Ya know, i don't mind criticizing our President... I've done it plenty myself over stupid tweets and stuff... but is it really necessary to call him stupid orange this and that in every post..?? It makes it hard to participate in what could be true debates.... i know he's not the cookie-cut Presidential type but he's not Hillary...
At the same time he is our President... don't vote for him if you hate him so bad... but consider the alternative before you vote...you really want Bernie or Biden..?? Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Did I win Victor..?? Huh
Phil222 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
DrafterX wrote:
i know he's not the cookie-cut Presidential type but he's not Hillary...

As a wise man once said, Hillary lost...I’d be lying if I stated that I didn’t find the name calling amusing at times, but agree that it shuts down any chance of an honest discussion/debate on anything.
teedubbya Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter I love ya but you are the last person in here that should request that given all your dumb Obama and Hillary ****.
Speyside Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think it is Drafter. I am not interested in being dishonest in my statements. He is an idiot. I hate him. What I wrote above was rather dispassionate. I will vote for anyone but him. I chose to not vote in the last election because I felt neither candidate was viable. In the coming election I will vote against Trump. I understand that you cannot accept that many Americans loathe Trump. Calling him the orange idiot is rather mild. You have said worse about Obama and his wife if memory serves. I am no more interested in debating anyone about Trumps ability than I am interested in debating anyone who thinks conservatives are the only ones with viewpoints that are worthwhile.
frankj1 Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I wasn't really thinking about Trump in my quandary, it was more about Israel.

btw, I am not allowed in Mecca and other Arab places.
DrafterX Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
Don't take me seriously Dudes... Laugh
DrafterX Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,508
And I never posted anything about Hillary or Obama that wasn't true... Mellow
Whistlebritches Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,127
frankj1 wrote:


I am not allowed in Mecca and other Arab places.



Give that some serious thought before you vote in the 2020 elections.
frankj1 Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Whistlebritches wrote:
Give that some serious thought before you vote in the 2020 elections.

you too.
Many of those places are in our BFF Saudi Arabia, killers of the journalist working for an American newspaper!

Prolly voting third party anyway, Ron. Really don't feel represented by either big party.
fishinguitarman Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Trump 2020!
bs_kwaj Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214
DrafterX wrote:
Ya know, i don't mind criticizing our President... I've done it plenty myself over stupid tweets and stuff... but is it really necessary to call him stupid orange this and that in every post..?? It makes it hard to participate in what could be true debates.... i know he's not the cookie-cut Presidential type but he's not Hillary...
At the same time he is our President... don't vote for him if you hate him so bad... but consider the alternative before you vote...you really want Bernie or Biden..?? Mellow


Beer
teedubbya Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’d vote ham sammich over the orange abomination
opelmanta1900 Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
teedubbya wrote:
Opel I get what you are saying. Maybe I should have said self professed Christians. But I have a hard tim telling someone that thinks they are a Christian that they really are not.

That said I know several people in here and in my personal life (close family) that identify as Christians that hate all Muslims. They are not hard to identify.


Those are the times we live in... A dude says he's a chick, we gotta believe him... A wolf says baaa, must be a sheep... A guy claims to love a God he cannot see but then hates what was made in that Gods image... I wonder why Rachel dolezal couldn't catch a break...

That said, i know what you mean and I know those same people... Not sure why we have to accept their self identifying, but I suppose for all of us there's a gap between what we think we are and what we actually are...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:


Yet Netanyahu did say if a humanitarian request to visit family (Tliab has relatives) in the West Bank it would be considered if "she pledged not to promote boycotts against Israel".

And she turned it down... Turns out not promoting boycotts against Israel is considered "oppressive"...
frankj1 Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
opelmanta1900 wrote:
And she turned it down... Turns out not promoting boycotts against Israel is considered "oppressive"...

so a follow up article I read per AP, (is that on our approved reading list?) claims she signed an agreement stating she would not promote the boycotts and stuff while in Israel and they then said she would be welcome to visit...
she hasn't denied it but says she won't go because they are trying to humiliate her.

I honestly don't know what to make of all this.
delta1 Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
DrafterX wrote:
Ya know, i don't mind criticizing our President... I've done it plenty myself over stupid tweets and stuff... but is it really necessary to call him stupid orange this and that in every post..?? It makes it hard to participate in what could be true debates.... i know he's not the cookie-cut Presidential type but he's not Hillary...
At the same time he is our President... don't vote for him if you hate him so bad... but consider the alternative before you vote...you really want Bernie or Biden..?? Mellow



your point would be worth consideration, except the man himself does not observe such niceties...he has set a standard for crassness in the public discourse that may take decades to cleanse, if ever...
delta1 Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
frankj1 wrote:
so a follow up article I read per AP, (is that on our approved reading list?) claims she signed an agreement stating she would not promote the boycotts and stuff while in Israel and they then said she would be welcome to visit...
she hasn't denied it but says she won't go because they are trying to humiliate her.

I honestly don't know what to make of all this.


I support her decision to refuse to accept the pass...she was treated like a political football, and this was her only dignified option...otherwise, it would appear to be groveling or accepting bigotry...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:
so a follow up article I read per AP, (is that on our approved reading list?) claims she signed an agreement stating she would not promote the boycotts and stuff while in Israel and they then said she would be welcome to visit...
she hasn't denied it but says she won't go because they are trying to humiliate her.

I honestly don't know what to make of all this.

I don't either... But it's politicians we're talking about... I'm sure there are plenty of half truths being told on both sides...
teedubbya Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And it’s painful to defend her in any way.
frankj1 Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Schumer, Nadler (both Jewish), and me have said all members of Congress should be allowed into Israel.

still outraged over lack of outrage that I can't get into several Arab nations though
frankj1 Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
delta1 wrote:
I support her decision to refuse to accept the pass...she was treated like a political football, and this was her only dignified option...otherwise, it would appear to be groveling or accepting bigotry...

she could trash them from here.
But while being hosted?

dignity goes both ways.
delta1 Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
she refused the conditional invitation from her home in Detroit, saying she hated to pass up a final, most likely, visit to her 92 year old grandmother in the West Bank....
teedubbya Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I wonder what the American Israel Public Affairs Committee thinks.
frankj1 Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
I wonder what the American Israel Public Affairs Committee thinks.

I mentioned them earlier in the thread.
Despite their disagreement with her (both actually) stance on Israel, they believe she and all members of Congress should be allowed into an ally.
frankj1 Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
delta1 wrote:
she refused the conditional invitation from her home in Detroit, saying she hated to pass up a final, most likely, visit to her 92 year old grandmother in the West Bank....

her initial reason and way to get there was through a private politically motivated sponsor.
She was going to drum up support for the Boycotts etc movement.

Her second reason (and I couldn't be more supportive) was to see her family.

It feels to me that Israel has the right to insist they not be trashed by any visitor, including visiting members of the government of an ally while permitted inside of their borders. Her refusal to go now is the real political football game...poor me, I'll never see grandma again because they don't want me to trash them from their land...

it does make me question her real purpose, and I'm leaning toward the first one.

Are there any other countries we would scrutinize to this degree?
I'm gonna book a flight to Saudi Arabia if we can pressure them this much.

Anyway, she should be allowed in without the promise to behave, in my opinion as an American who is not living in a democracy surrounded by nations dedicated to our obliteration.
frankj1 Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
I wonder what the American Israel Public Affairs Committee thinks.

see post #106...
ZRX1200 Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Frank I agree generally she should, but she’s been beating the anti Israel drum long before this deathbed trip....which cynically seems to have arterial motives. And I’m the age of OGM HOW UN-PRESIDENTIAL many are jaded with the selective moral outrage. Not the behavior purely but overt political motives.
frankj1 Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
ZRX1200 wrote:
Frank I agree generally she should, but she’s been beating the anti Israel drum long before this deathbed trip....which cynically seems to have arterial motives. And I’m the age of OGM HOW UN-PRESIDENTIAL many are jaded with the selective moral outrage. Not the behavior purely but overt political motives.

well, as dear old Dad taught me, sometimes I shouldn't get everything I want.
I am obviously opposed to her anti-Israel stance, but I want us to do the right thing even if it doesn't benefit my dog in the fight.
qmech Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2016
Posts: 970
One difference is there are far fewer Christians and Jews who have gone to the extreme Muslims have. Truth be told many Muslims are decent good people, however let's us not bury our heads in the sand and not understand the threat radicalism can provide. In general this goes for every hard core ideologically minded group be they religious and nonreligious.
ZRX1200 Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
Ok but don’t lose sight of Muslims not being monolithic
frankj1 Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I do have a problem with Trump and Netanyahu turning Israel into a partisan political issue in the US.
Jews in the US donate and vote. That should not be how this is handled.
victor809 Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Frank.... My stance has never been that she should be let in. I don't honestly care how Israel chooses to vet their visitors. That's their business and governed by their laws.

However,our president should not be encouraging them to not admit a congressperson. He is supposedly president of our country, and should be encouraging our values (which include the right to speak out against anyone and anything).

But we really shouldn't expect him to do anything other than be self serving. He will always play to his base of racists and white nationalists and other forms of Christianity....
Speyside Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Racists and white supremicists are Trump supporters, but Trump supporters are not racists and white supremicists by definition. I am suprised and disappointed that Evangelical Christians still support him given his verifiable lack of morality. He bangs whoever he wants to, this is fact. Legally he has cost thousands of people billions of dollars, this is fact. His college was a scam, this is fact.
delta1 Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
throughout our history, we've had our leaders; POTUS, SOS, VP, Congresspeople, going to foreign countries all around the world, speaking out about a variety of political differences: apartheid, human rights, democratic elections, nuclear arms, communism, trade imbalances, labor rights, women's rights, education, poverty..... etc....etc....and we've had foreign leaders traveling to the US who criticized aspects of our politics (Netanyahu in 2016)...

we took pride in our position as a leading light of freedom and courageous voice of our democratic values, including freedom of speech...


heck, we now welcome foreign influence in our elections...
ZRX1200 Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
OFFS
Speyside Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
ONS?
Speyside Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
It just seemed appropriate to do a 180. I have no idea what I meant.
frankj1 Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
victor809 wrote:
Frank.... My stance has never been that she should be let in. I don't honestly care how Israel chooses to vet their visitors. That's their business and governed by their laws.

However,our president should not be encouraging them to not admit a congressperson. He is supposedly president of our country, and should be encouraging our values (which include the right to speak out against anyone and anything).

But we really shouldn't expect him to do anything other than be self serving. He will always play to his base of racists and white nationalists and other forms of Christianity....

no argument.
Speyside Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
White supremacy and racism are forms of Christianity?
victor809 Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
.... Meh ... "Christians" seem to be pretty damn comfortable working closely with them.

As an atheist I am having more and more trouble differentiating.
ZRX1200 Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
I’m just glad Delta1 recognizes Italy and Australia for their attempts to interfere with our election.
teedubbya Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Any action to interfere in our election should be met with reactions relative to the actions.

I’m not aware of anything from Australia or Italy that are in the ballpark but yes if they’ve done any state sanctioned hacking or have a program run by their spy agencies intended to disrupt things then they absolutely should be discussed in the same way Russia is. Otherwise perhaps it’s a red herring.
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