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SirKnight Offline
#51 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 6:14 AM EST
Joined: 12-19-2018
Posts: 605
As socialism spreads so will the taking of the second amendment, then as we the people become poor and destitute the government will be able to easily squash any rebellion. My firearms have not killed or maimed anyone it is the person with the gun that is the danger now how would you regulate the buyer?
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
so tailgater...

have you changed your mind after reading these cogent pro/con positions?


HA!


You mean pro-con?
Speyside Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 9:20 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
IZON, I didn't say how to do this as I am not sure. I am not sure if it is even possible.
Speyside Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 9:27 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Frank, a gun meant for killing, plain and simple. A perv tried to snatch my nephew about 3 months ago. My bother in law concealed carries. He dropped the perv 1 shot kill. My perspective changed when it was so close to home. I realized I couldn't have done the same thing, but would have if properly armed. I would feel remorse, but no regret.
Mr. Jones Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
BETO is an A-HOLE...who will screw A.N.Y. BODY
TO GET ELECTED
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 2:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
USNGunner wrote:
Hoss, the "arms" are no different than a tool in your shed. It's the man wielding it that makes the determination whether to do good or evil. No more than a rake determines whether vegetables or weeds will germinate and be dominate in the garden.

A nuke in my basement would be as safe as one of my grandchildren and no danger to any man. Unless one threatened me or mine. Mine including my country.

There in lies the difference. I ask no man to cut his johnson off as there are those that commit rape with them. Nor would any sane person.

So why in God's name would I give up my firearms? They'll not be used for evil, so what is the point of that? And no sane person looking at this honestly would ask either.

I'm really not looking to take your guns, but I was asking if there are any thoughts on if anything goes beyond reasonable in the world of weapons.
As we both know, many are not legal for private ownership.
izonfire Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 3:27 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
Speyside wrote:
Frank, a gun meant for killing, plain and simple. A perv tried to snatch my nephew about 3 months ago. My bother in law concealed carries. He dropped the perv 1 shot kill. My perspective changed when it was so close to home. I realized I couldn't have done the same thing, but would have if properly armed. I would feel remorse, but no regret.

I salute your BIL

There are certain females I would let grab my gun. I’ll fire it off for ‘em too.

Solve the problem of illegal guns first. Then we’ll talk...
Speyside Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Hard problem to solve. Lets define the problem a little farther. Solve the problem of illegal guns owned by people who know they own them Illigally. Honest, decent people may not know they own a gun illegally. Let's go a little farther, this is where it really gets grey for me. How about a battered woman who has been denied a gun who buys one illegally to protect her and her children? In my mind she has commuted no crime.
USNGunner Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Speyside wrote:
Frank, a gun meant for killing, plain and simple. A perv tried to snatch my nephew about 3 months ago. My bother in law concealed carries. He dropped the perv 1 shot kill. My perspective changed when it was so close to home. I realized I couldn't have done the same thing, but would have if properly armed. I would feel remorse, but no regret.


Thank God Spey, thank God. I'm glad that came out well. Good on your BIL. Give him my regards, he did good.

On that note. We were moving my daughter and her family into their new home today. I was carrying a bed frame down the hall and accidently scraped up against the wall with my holster. It's an inside the waistband, so it's under my shirt and pants, so no damage to wall or gun, but it was loud.

She immediately reacted to the noise, thinking I had scraped the bed on the wall. I told here happened, no harm, no foul, no scrapes and she calmed down. Her reaction was "Why are you carrying your gun when we're moving? Oh yeah, well, you never know."

I just smiled and kept on. I told here later, "I hope I never need it, but if I did and didn't have it to protect any of you kids or grandkids, I'd never forgive myself." She smiled and said "Yeah, I get that."

That is why I carry. And why I would never surrender my firearms. I need to protect my loved ones from both evil, and those that would do evil in the name of good.

The founders weren't protecting hunting. Hell they all depended on game for subsistence. The thought of having to state that would never occurred to them. The 2nd amendment was written to make sure the populace could effectively fight an oppressive government.

So if the popo and .mil are armed with M-16's, the civilians should at least have Ar-15's. Hell, I think the GCA of 68 should have been ruled unconstitutional. If the .gov can have it, so should the people. That was the intent of the founders.


It's not about food. It's about liberty.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 6:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
for #59
Spey, yet she has committed a crime...


I've stated before and met some opposition, but I'd like to see some real consequences for owners of legal guns who have them stolen and don't report them, and lesser penalties for those that do report the theft, including denying permits to own again.

Talk show host (female) on local radio said she could have bought a gun instantly at a show in New Hampshire. That should be stopped.

Couple of other situations I'd be for changing, but other than that I do believe people are allowed to own per the Constitution. I'm just not sure it's a case of anything goes.
USNGunner Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 6:52 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
frankj1 wrote:
for #59
Spey, yet she has committed a crime...


I've stated before and met some opposition, but I'd like to see some real consequences for owners of legal guns who have them stolen and don't report them, and lesser penalties for those that do report the theft, including denying permits to own again.

Talk show host (female) on local radio said she could have bought a gun instantly at a show in New Hampshire. That should be stopped.

Couple of other situations I'd be for changing, but other than that I do believe people are allowed to own per the Constitution. I'm just not sure it's a case of anything goes.


Folks that break the law need to be held accountable. All of them. I've no problem with that. I'm not familiar with the laws in New Hampshire. So that may or may not be true. That is a common "Look what I can get away with at these gun shows!" hysteria driving sensational reporting standard.

Federal law requires an instant check. If the dealer does an online NICS approval and it comes back clean, then absolutely she could have bought the gun onsite. That is a legal purchase in accordance with law. What's the problem? I do that all the time. If she was a felon and could do that, well then there is a problem, but I doubt that is the case.

As far as law abiding citizens go, if you don't commit crimes, what business is it of yours what they own or do not own? Screw that nonsense.

frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 6:55 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
USNGunner wrote:
Folks that break the law need to be held accountable. All of them. I've no problem with that. I'm not familiar with the laws in New Hampshire. So that may or may not be true. That is a common "Look what I can get away with at these gun shows!" hysteria driving sensational reporting standard.

Federal law requires an instant check. If the dealer does an online NICS approval and it comes back clean, then absolutely she could have bought the gun onsite. That is a legal purchase in accordance with law. What's the problem? I do that all the time. If she was a felon and could do that, well then there is a problem, but I doubt that is the case.

As far as law abiding citizens go, if you don't commit crimes, what business is it of yours what they own or do not own? Screw that nonsense.


I really am fine with the right to bear arms.
You've said nothing to change that!
ZRX1200 Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:14 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
Ah....criminalizing victims.

Frank feels the same way about rape victims?

Ban private sales....yeah tell me how prohibition has always worked. And that does stop HANDING DOWN firearms to relatives btw. Unless of course it pleases the crown and you pay another TAX to exercise you right....again thank God the left supports voter ID.
ZRX1200 Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
And these altruistic ideas have no impact on the poor trying to protect themselves at all...no siree Bob.....I bet their landlords are ok with 2,000 lbs safe that the renter can’t afford to start with. Cable locks are about as effective as Cöck rings are for birth control
delta1 Offline
#65 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:19 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
the idea that Americans will unite in rebellion against the government to justify citizens hording caches of weapons is preposterous...we can't even agree on something as basic as white or wheat...
Speyside Offline
#66 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think you miss the point Al. Citizens have the constitutional right.
delta1 Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 7:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
right, so we don't need to justify owning weapons for an armed rebellion...

but as with all rights afforded by the Constitution, there are many reasons to constrain the unfettered exercise of those rights...

even our most basic and primary right, specified in the 1st Amendment, above all others, is subject to legal limitations: as evidenced by time, place and manner restrictions and slander and libel laws
ZRX1200 Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019, 8:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
Right and what would those limitations of speech be from causing?

Harm.

And if you use a firearm illegally the same thing is there.

But now we want to make speech difficult to own, prohibitively difficult to own, only allowed situationally both physically and geographically, and using societal pressure to attempt making speech unpopular. All while claiming to want to protect the people most harmed.

Oh wait.....
SirKnight Offline
#69 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 6:14 AM EST
Joined: 12-19-2018
Posts: 605
ZRX1200 wrote:
Right and what would those limitations of speech be from causing?

Harm.

And if you use a firearm illegally the same thing is there.

But now we want to make speech difficult to own, prohibitively difficult to own, only allowed situationally both physically and geographically, and using societal pressure to attempt making speech unpopular. All while claiming to want to protect the people most harmed.

Oh wait.....



What harm does a license plate cause or a shirt that says F*CK people are denied these solely because of being offensive, I guess harm if you are a snowflake.

Weaponry in the wrong hands can and is usually deadly and it all goes back to the individual wield the weapon on how it is used.
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I heard in Australia they took all the guns and the dingos ate all da babies... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
U.S. District Court, Southern District of Ohio Eastern Division’s dismissal with prejudice of the Primus Group v. Smith & Wesson, et. al. case. The decision was delivered Oct. 9, brushing aside the frivolous claims against several AR-15 firearms manufacturers, including Smith & Wesson, Remington Arms Company, Sig Sauer, Sturm, Ruger & Company, Colt’s Manufacturing and Armalite.

Darn it.
teedubbya Offline
#72 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:02 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I heard in Australia they took all the guns and the dingos ate all da babies... Mellow



Those were not dingos. It was CROS and he was just hungry and stuff.
teedubbya Offline
#73 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:05 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I own guns because I want to, I like them, and they are my right as provided by the constitution. No other reason is necessary.

My current favorite is my scorpion with multiple 30+ round magazines. I'm beginning to believe I can fire close to the speeds I didn't believe when Delta posted them. Sorry Delta, I may have been wrong. (When I am wrong I admit it... it's the fence post in me... eh I mean...oh never mind)

Don't like it? The constitution can be modified. Get enough people and go through the process. Assuming you can not (because you can't), refer to the first two sentences.

merica
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm dubious when someone isn't on solid legal ground so they attack the periphery hoping to create a hassle or nuisance BECAUSE they are not on solid legal ground. Feel strongly? Attack it directly. Fail? You can try again but don't be an ankle biter.
USNGunner Offline
#75 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:22 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
teedubbya wrote:
I'm dubious when someone isn't on solid legal ground so they attack the periphery hoping to create a hassle or nuisance BECAUSE they are not on solid legal ground. Feel strongly? Attack it directly. Fail? You can try again but don't be an ankle biter.


You just summed up the entire anti crowd in one post. Applause

And most of the left. Brick wall

USNGunner Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:27 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
teedubbya wrote:
I own guns because I want to, I like them, and they are my right as provided by the constitution. No other reason is necessary.


Yep, but when you try to explain that they trot our straw dogs and dismiss it. But free speech on a hand held device the founders could have never imagined is protected still. "What do hypocrite mean?" d'oh!

Quote:
My current favorite is my scorpion with multiple 30+ round magazines. I'm beginning to believe I can fire close to the speeds I didn't believe when Delta posted them. Sorry Delta, I may have been wrong. (When I am wrong I admit it... it's the fence post in me... eh I mean...oh never mind)


I have several 9mm AR pistols I built from 80% lowers. Love them. I got a whole case of UZI mags cheap and modified on my mill to work in the Colt system. Yeah, you can empty them a helluva lot faster than you can load. BigGrin

Quote:
Don't like it? The constitution can be modified. Get enough people and go through the process. Assuming you can not (because you can't), refer to the first two sentences.


Quote:
merica


Reading is in fact fundamental. But, I think the rose colored glasses filter out the preamble. Not talking
bgz Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:43 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Then you got that Schumer trying to ban body armor... Everyone should have a few sets of body armor just to stick it to that guy.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 10:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
teedubbya wrote:
Those were not dingos. It was CROS and he was just hungry and stuff.



Poor CROS... Sad



What's funnier than CROS eatng a dead baby..?? Huh
izonfire Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
DrafterX wrote:
Poor CROS... Sad



What's funnier than CROS eatng a dead baby..?? Huh


CROS eating a live one???
teedubbya Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 11:23 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
CROS eating a dead baby while both are dressed as clowns?
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
only cuz I respect most of you azzhats, I'm actually listening...

but if I get tossed out of the Lib Club it will be on your heads.
delta1 Offline
#82 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
although I don't personally know all of the folks posting here about gun rights, I don't have any problem with any of THEM (who appear to be rational, responsible gun-owners) owning the guns they do, and if they want more, more power to them...it's the unknown yahoos, knuckleheads, low-life thugs, bangers, mentally disturbed, violent when intoxicated/under the influence and homicidal maniacs for which I am suspicious of making gun ownership easier...

I'm sure we all know at least one or two people that we worry "does he have an AR15?"

respectable gun owners going overboard in asserting their 2nd Amendment Rights (read: unfettered) create an environment that makes it easy for potentially dangerous people to get possession of
types of guns that can increase the number of potential persons killed dramatically...what about the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that the deceased victims enjoyed...life in a civilized society always involves compromises of individual rights and freedoms to achieve safety and security for the society at large...

there isn't a way that we can curtail people from acting violently and pulling the trigger...but we've prevented some guns from being the lethal device...why not try to extend that effective plan to include additional more lethal devices?
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
No way man... Not talking
delta1 Offline
#84 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
prolly not now...

but the young generation of students that have survived horrific incidents of mass murder might find a way when they assume the levers of power...
fiddler898 Offline
#85 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 4:56 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Why regulation is somehow equated with confiscation, I’ll never know.
delta1 Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 4:58 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
that darn Beto let the cat outta da bag...
frankj1 Offline
#87 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 5:09 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
fiddler898 wrote:
Why regulation is somehow equated with confiscation, I’ll never know.

NRA scare tactic
USNGunner Offline
#88 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
frankj1 wrote:
NRA scare tactic


When did Feinstein join the NRA?

"Senator Dianne Feinstein's interview on 60 minutes back in 1995 reveals exactly what her agenda is: disarming the American people. Feinstein is heard to say, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States, for an outright ban, picking up everyone of them (every gun) Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in.""

The video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWdbdBj4E5s

Beto is just dredging it back up. Same playbook, same tactic, he just screwed up and went public with it too early.
DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
What percentage of students have survived horrific incidents of mass murder..?? Think
frankj1 Offline
#90 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
USNGunner wrote:
When did Feinstein join the NRA?

"Senator Dianne Feinstein's interview on 60 minutes back in 1995 reveals exactly what her agenda is: disarming the American people. Feinstein is heard to say, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States, for an outright ban, picking up everyone of them (every gun) Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in.""

The video is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWdbdBj4E5s

Beto is just dredging it back up. Same playbook, same tactic, he just screwed up and went public with it too early.

what they said and what is possible are miles apart. Lots of unrealistic stupid statements come from both sides of the aisle.
But I missed any proposed legislation in the quarter century since the stupid statement on her part designed to outlaw all possession of guns. The non fringe lefties (the vast majority btw) are not in line with that thinking anyway.

Beto is a joke. He's also not currently in a position with even the power to arrest jay walkers. Feel free to ignore him, as so far he speaks for one person only. Well, maybe fourteen potential voters. HA!

NRA, however, is a gigantic powerful political force. Convincing members that even allowing discussion will lead to the Commies' confiscation of 300,000,000 guns is possibly dumber than Beto's next remark...and we already know his next remark will be powerless and stupid.

I understand your position, and yet we seem to be able to discuss it without bloodshed. We can't be the only two able to talk.

don't assume anything opposed to what the NRA says has to be so far in the extreme as to necessarily even approach Beto's or Feinstein's statements.
ZRX1200 Offline
#91 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
LMAO....yeah just a scare tactic.....

Ohfugginkay guys....I’m done posting links y’all are too happy to forget about.

Good day sirs
frankj1 Offline
#92 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:06 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
ZRX1200 wrote:
LMAO....yeah just a scare tactic.....

Ohfugginkay guys....I’m done posting links y’all are too happy to forget about.

Good day sirs

I don't open them cuz I figure they're pics of Ron doing lewd stuff.
and I don't want your smelly guns either.
ZRX1200 Offline
#93 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
Frank I’d email those to you.


It’s not like pics come through on that ph UC king flip phone
frankj1 Offline
#94 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
ZRX1200 wrote:
Frank I’d email those to you.


It’s not like pics come through on that ph UC king flip phone

true dat.
y'know, I love you even when you're wrong.
ZRX1200 Offline
#95 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:17 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
I thought I was wrong once.


But I was mistaken.
frankj1 Offline
#96 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
no, you were right
Mr. Jones Offline
#97 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 8:57 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Frank....For a guy ( I think who doesn't own a gun?)
Your sure love to chime in on every GUN THREAD ON THIS FORUM....

USUALLY WITH GOOD ARGUMENTS TOO....

JUST GO BUY SOME GUNS...allright...already...
and join the 98.2% of gun owners posting on here
frankj1 Offline
#98 Posted: Mon, Oct 21 2019, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Mr. Jones wrote:
Frank....For a guy ( I think who doesn't own a gun?)
Your sure love to chime in on every GUN THREAD ON THIS FORUM....

USUALLY WITH GOOD ARGUMENTS TOO....

JUST GO BUY SOME GUNS...allright...already...
and join the 98.2% of gun owners posting on here

thanks for the invite, Y.O.G.I. It's not a crazy thought.

I was starting to wonder how I got into an all or nothing discussion...as in it's either take all guns or shut up you Commie bassturd...and I realized during halftime of the Pats' slaughtering of the Jets that it wasn't me, it was the NRA forcing that thought process so as to prevent owners from even talking to people like me...libs who believes in the Constitutional right to bear arms!

Instead I end up explaining Feinstein and Batboy!

I'd happily purchase a gun if I ever want one. Not even ruling it out. But at the age of 66 I've never felt the need for protection (subject to change) but I do like trying to hit targets...it fits into my sports/competition thirst that's been with me forever. I can see getting something for that purpose.

I am still proud of my Bronze Medal from the day edin508 took me and tailgater to the Walpole Sportsmen's Club range.
Tail posted a pic of his worst nightmare, a lib wif a gun (me).

So someone please tell Ollie North to stop spreading lies about me (and stop stealing your donations).
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted: Tue, Oct 22 2019, 7:19 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
You want I should handle Ollie for you..?? Mellow
fishinguitarman Offline
#100 Posted: Tue, Oct 22 2019, 7:51 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
What a GREAT movie title!!!


LIB WITH A GUN
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